Any trains with front windows for passengers?

[richieb1971]

I was wondering if a double decker bus style of carriage for a DMU/EMU had ever been considered?

Where the front few rows of seats sit on top of the drivers position giving a 180 degree full field view of the track? There would be design changes required obviously and the driver wouldn't like some of the distractions on regular services. But has it ever been considered?

 

[Andy-mc]

I was wondering if a double decker bus style of carriage for a DMU/EMU had ever been considered?

Where the front few rows of seats sit on top of the drivers position giving a 180 degree full field view of the track? There would be design changes required obviously and the driver wouldn't like some of the distractions on regular services. But has it ever been considered?

it has been considered yes although the loading gauge in this country wouldn't be able to fit them and the cost to adapt it would be immense, especially when you consider the headache they are having trying to electrify places like the midland mainline where pretty much all the bridges are having to be raised or trackbeds lowered to fit in the cables

closet you can get is probably on a heritage or railtour train with an observation car Granted you would be facing the wrong way

 

[sciisfun]

or if your lucky the front seats of the DLR

 

[Jamesb1974]

Deleted

 

[birchesgreen]

You can look out of the front windows on the DLR.

1st generation DMUs often had windows between the cab and the rest of the car so you could see out of the front windows... unless the driver pulled the blinds down

 

[swt_passenger]

Tyne Wear Metro units also have a half width cab with 2 seats alongside.

 

[Kite159]

Front seat on a Tyne & Wear metro service, technically an EMU (class 994)

*edit looks like SWT passenger beat me to it*

 

[me123]

Also happened on the 303s around Glasgow, of course now long withdrawn.

Sadly, I didn't get to travel on them before they got refurbished into this lovely arrangement.

I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will build a train with passenger views to the front, I suspect that main reason being the potential distraction for the driver. I suspect that's why the popular driver's-eye view on the 303s were removed in the middle of their lives.

 

[74A]

Go to Japan. Lots of their trains have windows you can look out the front.

Also the trams in London.

 

[superkev]

I believe you can stand behind a German ICE driver at 200mph plus.
Worst feature of modern units when someone decided to remove the front view. Imagine a luxury coach with walls at the ends.
Wasn't it something to do with the unions.
K

 

[SeanG]

Surely someone could come up with some sort of one way glazing thing so drivers can't see back

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a porthole in the front compartment of Trenitalia Pendolinos (maybe other trains too).
It's a narrow view but quite fun to look through when navigating the many tunnels on the HS lines.
The driver is invisible.
German LHCS usually has large windows in the corridor connection at the coach ends, so you get a good backwards view of the track you have passed over.

 

[Johncleesefan]

As a driver I wouldn't like masses of people being able to survey my every move. Id feel like an exhibit and then there's the distractions

 

[fowler9]

I was lucky enough to get a 303 from Liverpool to Crewe way back when with the blinds up.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a porthole in the front compartment of Trenitalia Pendolinos (maybe other trains too).
It's a narrow view but quite fun to look through when navigating the many tunnels on the HS lines.
The driver is invisible.
German LHCS usually has large windows in the corridor connection at the coach ends, so you get a good backwards view of the track you have passed over.

PS
These days, trains are quite capable of displaying useful stuff internally on the PIS or displays.
Most high speed trains on the continent can display the current speed. Maybe the IEPs will do that.
Voyagers are actually capable of doing it too, although in 15-odd years I've only seen it once - out of Euston on a train when tilt was disabled so 110mph max, which you could check.

New big jets (eg A380) can also display whatever the external cameras are capable of, and the airline management permit you to see.
The pilot's eye view of landing and taking off at Hong Kong was interesting - passing over ships at low altitude - although the fog and low screen resolution didn't help.
On my first trip with cameras we went through the de-icer at Paris CDG which was very entertaining.
Now that trains are bristling with cameras and display screens they could show a forward view without bothering the driver.

 

[randyrippley]

You can look out of the front windows on the DLR.

1st generation DMUs often had windows between the cab and the rest of the car so you could see out of the front windows... unless the driver pulled the blinds down

back in the 1960's between Weymouth and Yeovil on overcrowded summer saturdays it wasn't unusual to see passengers actually in the DMU cab with the driver(s). Possibly members of the drivers family? No-one ever seemed too bothered about it.

 

[6Gman]

I was wondering if a double decker bus style of carriage for a DMU/EMU had ever been considered?

Where the front few rows of seats sit on top of the drivers position giving a 180 degree full field view of the track? There would be design changes required obviously and the driver wouldn't like some of the distractions on regular services. But has it ever been considered?

Could be done.

Mind you, the driver would have to lie down to drive.

 

[johnnychips]

Barcelona Line 9 Sud (driverless) and all the trams (no blinds).

 

[E_Reeves]

The trams in manchester, you can see the cab and out of the front window.

 

[40129]

IIRC all trams in the UK have a glass partition between the drivers cab and the saloon allowing passengers to see through the front windows.

The PPMs used on the Stourbridge shuttle.

The shuttle trains at Birmingham and Gatwick airports

 

[Mordac]

IIRC all trams in the UK have a glass partition between the drivers cab and the saloon allowing passengers to see through the front windows.

Edinburgh ones certainly do!

 

[jopsuk]

I was wondering if a double decker bus style of carriage for a DMU/EMU had ever been considered?

Where the front few rows of seats sit on top of the drivers position giving a 180 degree full field view of the track? There would be design changes required obviously and the driver wouldn't like some of the distractions on regular services. But has it ever been considered?

Japan has a larger loading gauge in general (despite the "classic" network being narrower track gauge). So there's trains like this or a wide variety of purpose built/converted excursion trains

 

[Firesprite]

Could be done.

Mind you, the driver would have to lie down to drive.

Or you could have the driver sitting in a small cab in the roof like the french 'Micheline' railcar.

 

[talltim]

Or you could have the driver sitting in a small cab in the roof like the french 'Micheline' railcar.

Or the MOB Ast/Arst driving coaches, currently operational
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20040623P15_Ast116_Zs.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:19930717_MOB_151-154.jpg
Or the Settebello (now preserved)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settebello_(train)#/media/File:Mar2003-ETR.302-010203codogno.jpg

 

[Bletchleyite]

I was lucky enough to get a 303 from Liverpool to Crewe way back when with the blinds up.

Used to love the Class 101s with the blinds up. By watching I learnt how to drive one - quite well, in fact, when I finally had a go at a preserved line!

 

[GatwickDepress]

Or the MOB Ast/Arst driving coaches, currently operational
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:20040623P15_Ast116_Zs.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:19930717_MOB_151-154.jpg
Or the Settebello (now preserved)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settebello_(train)#/media/File:Mar2003-ETR.302-010203codogno.jpg

The same design is used in the Odakyu 7000 series, which has a very observation car feel to it - as befitted a Romancecar service. Quite a lot of Japanese Romancecar services utilise the "cab-over-passengers" design but in my opinion none looks as distinctive as the 7000 series.


藤沢駅・小田急7000形電車 | Odakyu 7000 series LSE・Fujisawa Station by Iyhon Chiu, on Flickr

There is a great picture on Wikipedia of the crew access hatch on an OER 50000 series. Somehow I doubt we'll be seeing that on our trains any time soon. :P

 

[physics34]

As a driver I wouldn't like masses of people being able to survey my every move. Id feel like an exhibit and then there's the distractions

and what if you need to pee into a cup

 

[WideRanger]

Japan has a larger loading gauge in general (despite the "classic" network being narrower track gauge). So there's trains like this or a wide variety of purpose built/converted excursion trains

As a number of people have mentioned, it's pretty common in Japan. The Shinkansen don't have a driver's eye view, nor do some of the faster trains on classic lines. But almost all commuter trains and slower regional trains do. This leads to some interesting consequences:
- The drivers are always driving as if scrutinised. They acknowledge all signals verbally and by pointing. They also theatrically compare the the timing that the train passes each booked point on the schedule. In hundreds of hours standing behind the driver, I have never once seen a driver look behind into the train while seated.
- The blinds directly behind the driver come down before any section with tunnel, or at night. For tunnels, the driver will bring the blind down at the station stop before the section with a tunnel on it, and bring it back up again at the next station after the tunnel. On some trains, the blind comes down automatically. On most trains, the window on the offside will not have the blind lowered, so it is still possible to see out of the front on that side. This also applies on most underground trains too.
- On JR trains, there is normally a sticker on the window explaining, in Japanese, that there are times when the driver has to talk on a mobile phone to line controllers, and that this is related to his/her job, not personal calls.
- The rear cab is used for the guard, who always has the blinds up. When he or she makes announcements, they are always facing into the carriage and talking 'to' the passengers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Back when blinds were regularly up on 1st gen units, it was great fun to get a driver's eye view... but not so great when coming back from a family day out in Southport when we were disrupted by a herd of cattle on the line- the driver managed to stop before hitting the cows, but only just! It was still quite scary for me as a 6-year-old!

 

[b0b]

Ahh the front view out of 303's, just the greatest.