old buses in London

[Antman]

Did I say Boris was getting rid of CAs? No. More Antman wiffle sadly.

Like I say, despite what Boris and Owen said and the trade mission, not a single sale outside Boris's own control.

Surely if it was so successful, someone else would buy it? It's the Amstrad Emailer of the bus world.

I think this pointless argument has run it's course but you could just as well ask why most of bendybuses that Ken Livingstone introduced weren't snapped up when they were going for a song? Nobody wanted the wretched things!

 

[ChrisPJ]

Thats a bit harsh, the Amstrad em@iler was a total pile of *****e that never worked properly. The Boris Master works, but I agree it is an expensive solution to a problem that didn't really exist.

Contrast with the real home grown export success. Many would be surprised at just how many Enviro500s are now in service (yeah I know none in London but so what. )

 

[THarris123]

Reading through this thread, it does sound a little bit harsh on Antman. I can't see that Borismasters haven't been a success in London.

Make it single door and I think it could work in other cities - Manchester and Yorkshire it could work.

The windows thing is a bit silly, I admit, but I can't by any means see that Borismasters are unsuccessful in London. Exporting them wouldn't particularly work, but they would be fine for city work in UK. Think they've been more successful than Streetdecks and Streetlites - just look at First's order of that this year. No Streetlites from what I've seen either in London. Borismasters aren't perfect, but like the Streetdecks and Streetlites, they'll do for the time being. The overall image of Borismasters in London I think has worked and they attract a lot of tourists with their distinct image.

Oh and thank you for turning this thread from a discussion about the age of buses in London (mainly intended) into a ranting argument about Borismasters.

 

[Busaholic]

They've been a success in London and it isn't Boris getting rid of conductors, I dread to think what outcry there would be if it was

Such a success that TfL has just had to budget an EXTRA £10 million p.a. to meet the extra, unbudgeted diesel fuel costs of the white elephants as m.p.g. continues to decrease i.e. the £10 million saved on customer assistants will still have to be spent. To think, Ensignbus are going to have 1,000 of these things on their books in a few years, bit like the jumbo jets rusting in deserts in the USA. In any case, Boris DID get rid of customer assistants the moment the first route (the 148) was converted without their use.
,

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think this pointless argument has run it's course but you could just as well ask why most of bendybuses that Ken Livingstone introduced weren't snapped up when they were going for a song? Nobody wanted the wretched things!

And the relevance of that is....

Actually, on the other hand, there have been a lot of bendybuses across the UK and across the world. Not something that NB4L can be accused of with it's stellar sales performance :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reading through this thread, it does sound a little bit harsh on Antman. I can't see that Borismasters haven't been a success in London.

Make it single door and I think it could work in other cities - Manchester and Yorkshire it could work.

The windows thing is a bit silly, I admit, but I can't by any means see that Borismasters are unsuccessful in London. Exporting them wouldn't particularly work, but they would be fine for city work in UK. Think they've been more successful than Streetdecks and Streetlites - just look at First's order of that this year. No Streetlites from what I've seen either in London. Borismasters aren't perfect, but like the Streetdecks and Streetlites, they'll do for the time being. The overall image of Borismasters in London I think has worked and they attract a lot of tourists with their distinct image.

Oh and thank you for turning this thread from a discussion about the age of buses in London (mainly intended) into a ranting argument about Borismasters.

Well, such is the world of the message board.....

They might be "fine for city work in UK" but amazingly no-one else has bothered.

As for "No Streetlites from what I've seen either in London", you're looking in the wrong places; Tower Transit and Go Ahead have them.

 

[THarris123]

And the relevance of that is....

Actually, on the other hand, there have been a lot of bendybuses across the UK and across the world. Not something that NB4L can be accused of with it's stellar sales performance :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Well, such is the world of the message board.....

They might be "fine for city work in UK" but amazingly no-one else has bothered.

As for "No Streetlites from what I've seen either in London", you're looking in the wrong places; Tower Transit and Go Ahead have them.

Well ive only been in central London and not seen any.

They're expensive and unique - that's why they don't want them. Doesn't mean they haven't been a success in London. Much rather buy some cheap Streetlites and ADL stuff. Borismaster was made for London, whereas most the other vehicles are for everywhere.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well ive only been in central London and not seen any.

They're expensive and unique - that's why they don't want them. Doesn't mean they haven't been a success in London. Much rather buy some cheap Streetlites and ADL stuff. Borismaster was made for London, whereas most the other vehicles are for everywhere.

They're expensive to purchase. They don't meet euro VI emissions. The USP was the rear platform but that's now redundant.

 

[THarris123]

They're expensive to purchase. They don't meet euro VI emissions. The USP was the rear platform but that's now redundant.

Not so sure that's the sole USP - what about the unique design of the panelling on the stairs?

 

[carlberry]

I think this pointless argument has run it's course but you could just as well ask why most of bendybuses that Ken Livingstone introduced weren't snapped up when they were going for a song? Nobody wanted the wretched things!

I'm not aware that Ken Livingstone introduced them. They were bought during the time he was mayor but Tfl wanted them. It was Boris that started using buses for political point scoring.

 

[matt_world2004]

Im sure some of the London Bendy buses went to Stena Line for ferrying foot passengers between the terminal and the car ferry, Similarly for staff at Heathrow Airport.

 

[317 forever]

One of the routes with the oldest buses in London is surprisingly a central London, namely route 45 with 52-reg PVLs. They might be replaced with 53-reg WVLs when route 185 gains new buses later this year. Otherwise the PVLs may soldier on until its next tender in November next year.

 

[the101]

It's you that hasn't grasped it:roll:

The bus was built for London, whether there will be any exports when the London order is complete remains to be seen. Got it now?:roll:

This is comedy. You genuinely don't realise that the poster you answered was talking about export orders, do you?

 

[317 forever]

Another place to see plenty of old buses is Harrow. London Sovereign operate 02-reg Darts on routes H9/10 while Metroline operate VPs on routes 140, 182 & H12 which are 52/04-reg. The 52-reg examples at least are due to be replaced by VWHs later this year. The LS DPSs were due to be replaced by DEs off route 72 but this latter double-decking has been postponed as extra work is needed on Hammersmith Bridge first.

 

[Antman]

This is comedy. You genuinely don't realise that the poster you answered was talking about export orders, do you?

Oh give it a rest eh? I see nothing remotely amusing :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One of the routes with the oldest buses in London is surprisingly a central London, namely route 45 with 52-reg PVLs. They might be replaced with 53-reg WVLs when route 185 gains new buses later this year. Otherwise the PVLs may soldier on until its next tender in November next year.

The 2 and 176 are operated by elderly VLA's but not for much longer I suspect.

 

[317 forever]

Oh give it a rest eh? I see nothing remotely amusing :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


The 2 and 176 are operated by elderly VLA's but not for much longer I suspect.

Both these routes are due for retender next year, route 2 in April and 176 in November, the latter in the same batch as route 45. Theese VLAs are 03 and maybe 53-reg.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

A plea: If you simply don't understand something, please don't comment on it. It is becoming very tiresome to continually read threads that are blighted by your posts that bear no relevance to the point you're answering.

and it's getting even more tiresome that every thread started about London get's hijacked by the Borismaster bashers and supporters to have the same old arguments...

it's been said before and I'll say it again... the arguments about Borismasters have been done to death and we will all have to agree to disagree.

I personally have no opinion about them one way or the other... except to say that whatever the outcome they were a brave attempt to bring bus design up from mini metro to bmw standards and style...

now please EVERYONE.... CAN WE DROP THE SUBJECT?

 

[Robertj21a]

and it's getting even more tiresome that every thread started about London get's hijacked by the Borismaster bashers and supporters to have the same old arguments...

it's been said before and I'll say it again... the arguments about Borismasters have been done to death and we will all have to agree to disagree.

I personally have no opinion about them one way or the other... except to say that whatever the outcome they were a brave attempt to bring bus design up from mini metro to bmw standards and style...

now please EVERYONE.... CAN WE DROP THE SUBJECT?

Fair enough, but this is a forum for discussion.......

:roll:

 

[THarris123]

Fair enough, but this is a forum for discussion.......

:roll:

Yes it is and it's a forum that is split up into separate threads - one of them solely for Borismasters, so why can't this be discussed on there? I suppose my original question when starting the thread included something about Borismasters, so technically its my fault, but if we're going to have arguments about Borismasters, I'd rather it be done in a separate thread and discuss it on there.

 

[Wolfie]

Edited to add:
Posted before I saw the cri de coeur above, sorry.

And what is their magical solution? Do nothing?

Yes the bendy buses are fine when there is plenty of room onboard, the ones in London were akin to cattle trucks although it would be illegal to carry cattle in such conditions.

Wheras Boris' complete junkheaps are once again living up to their "Roaster" nickname (actually "Borisbus" is the ideal nickname - like him they superficially look decent but are absolutely and completely useless and unfit for purpose) as soon as it gets warm. The Standard is again reporting how people are being transported in temperatures that it would be illegal to subject livestock to...


As for the 2nd man they are all being removed as a savings measure which was always going to happen as soon as Mr-Ego left the building- nice one Boris, you complete and utter dunce!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36764417

No it isn't reality, they have been well received by both passengers and staff.

Really - tell that to the ones roasted over the last few days - one man's ego trip (like his equally useless cable car)...

 

[Antman]

Edited to add:
Posted before I saw the cri de coeur above, sorry.



Wheras Boris' complete junkheaps are once again living up to their "Roaster" nickname (actually "Borisbus" is the ideal nickname - like him they superficially look decent but are absolutely and completely useless and unfit for purpose) as soon as it gets warm. The Standard is again reporting how people are being transported in temperatures that it would be illegal to subject livestock to...


As for the 2nd man they are all being removed as a savings measure which was always going to happen as soon as Mr-Ego left the building- nice one Boris, you complete and utter dunce!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36764417



Really - tell that to the ones roasted over the last few days - one man's ego trip (like his equally useless cable car)...

What a load of nonsense, your usual vitriol and bile which has been done ad nauseam.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Edited to add:
Posted before I saw the cri de coeur above, sorry.



Wheras Boris' complete junkheaps are once again living up to their "Roaster" nickname (actually "Borisbus" is the ideal nickname - like him they superficially look decent but are absolutely and completely useless and unfit for purpose) as soon as it gets warm. The Standard is again reporting how people are being transported in temperatures that it would be illegal to subject livestock to...


As for the 2nd man they are all being removed as a savings measure which was always going to happen as soon as Mr-Ego left the building- nice one Boris, you complete and utter dunce!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36764417



Really - tell that to the ones roasted over the last few days - one man's ego trip (like his equally useless cable car)...

And why don't you mention cycle superhighways whilst you're at it? If you want to slag off Boris Johnson then start a new thread on the appropriate section:roll:

 

[Deerfold]

What a load of nonsense, your usual vitriol and bile which has been done ad nauseam.

I see no vitriol or bile.
What is nonsense about what Wolfie said?

I've just spent a couple of days in London. 4 of the dozen or so buses I got were NBfLs. They were noticeably warmer than the other buses, with people complaining about how hot they were.

 

[Wolfie]

I see no vitriol or bile.
What is nonsense about what Wolfie said?

I've just spent a couple of days in London. 4 of the dozen or so buses I got were NBfLs. They were noticeably warmer than the other buses, with people complaining about how hot they were.

Firstly thank you for your support. Secondly, proof of my "nonsense"..

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...our-buses-and-tubes-in-36c-heat-a3298811.html

"London weather: Commuters swelter in 36C heat on rush hour buses and Tube

Matt Watts, Sophia Sleigh |Tuesday 19 July 2016 07:52 BST|

Temperatures on the Central line reached 33.7C, while passengers on the new fleet of Routemaster buses - the majority of which are still without opening windows - endured journeys in conditions that would be illegal to transport cattle.

Pamela Bozo, 33, a student from Highbury and Islington, was on the bottom deck of a number 9 bus at Hyde Park Corner where the temperature was recorded by the Standard at 36.5C.

She said: “It’s like being on a sauna with wheels. You just have to deal with it and just get on with it but its really uncomfortable. It’s terrible really because transport is expensive, but where is the air conditioning?”

Zhivana Veleva, 23, from Acton, who works in hospitality, was on a bus where the temperature hit 36.4C.

She said: “It’s so hot you can’t breathe. They need to get the windows in as quickly as possible. They need to do something.”

Alberto Martin, 22, an architect living in Angel, said: “It’s like being inside a volcano. Buses are bad, and on the tube it feels worse. I’m from Spain where the buses are properly air conditioned. It’s London - they need to upgrade.”

Sam Fullilove, 28, a law clerk from Sidcup, said: “It’s something the new mayor of London needs to look at urgently. I just came back from France where the buses are air conditioned, but this is like sitting in a furnace.”"

More customers who "love" Boris' vanity project....NOT

 

[Antman]

Firstly thank you for your support. Secondly, proof of my "nonsense"..

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...our-buses-and-tubes-in-36c-heat-a3298811.html

"London weather: Commuters swelter in 36C heat on rush hour buses and Tube

Matt Watts, Sophia Sleigh |Tuesday 19 July 2016 07:52 BST|

Temperatures on the Central line reached 33.7C, while passengers on the new fleet of Routemaster buses - the majority of which are still without opening windows - endured journeys in conditions that would be illegal to transport cattle.

Pamela Bozo, 33, a student from Highbury and Islington, was on the bottom deck of a number 9 bus at Hyde Park Corner where the temperature was recorded by the Standard at 36.5C.

She said: “It’s like being on a sauna with wheels. You just have to deal with it and just get on with it but its really uncomfortable. It’s terrible really because transport is expensive, but where is the air conditioning?”

Zhivana Veleva, 23, from Acton, who works in hospitality, was on a bus where the temperature hit 36.4C.

She said: “It’s so hot you can’t breathe. They need to get the windows in as quickly as possible. They need to do something.”

Alberto Martin, 22, an architect living in Angel, said: “It’s like being inside a volcano. Buses are bad, and on the tube it feels worse. I’m from Spain where the buses are properly air conditioned. It’s London - they need to upgrade.”

Sam Fullilove, 28, a law clerk from Sidcup, said: “It’s something the new mayor of London needs to look at urgently. I just came back from France where the buses are air conditioned, but this is like sitting in a furnace.”"

More customers who "love" Boris' vanity project....NOT

What you have quoted is about public transport in general, not specifically about the Boris vanity project as you call it, it seems that you are so obsessed about Boris and one or two other people (ie the MD of Southern) that you just can't see the wood for the trees!

You may notice a plea from a previous poster in post 76 to get this thread back on topic. If you still want to bang on about Boris and his bus then kindly start a new thread but I wouldn't expect much response because the subject has been done ad nauseam!

 

[THarris123]

What you have quoted is about public transport in general, not specifically about the Boris vanity project as you call it, it seems that you are so obsessed about Boris and one or two other people (ie the MD of Southern) that you just can't see the wood for the trees!

You may notice a plea from a previous poster in post 76 to get this thread back on topic. If you still want to bang on about Boris and his bus then kindly start a new thread but I wouldn't expect much response because the subject has been done ad nauseam!

So in one sentence you right that the article has nothing to do with Borismasters and yet you complain he's posting on this thread about Borismasters again in the next sentence. If the article was just solely about public transport in general, which it isn't and its about Borismasters specifically, there would be no argument for not posting it on this thread, as it is about old buses in London mostly. Old buses generally don't have proper air con and the older ones tend to be hotter, so if that was meant in the article, then fine post on here, but from my reading of it, it is clearly about Borismasters. The article was posted in response to your argument that he is talking nonsense and bile, which considering the point that it proves you wrong, I, as the person who started this thread, don't mind as its an ongoing discussion. I just wish the whole discussion on this thread didn't include so much talk about Borismasters from the start, when there is another thread open for this. I should have just posted my initial comment in the Borismaster thread.

 

[Antman]

So in one sentence you right that the article has nothing to do with Borismasters and yet you complain he's posting on this thread about Borismasters again in the next sentence. If the article was just solely about public transport in general, which it isn't and its about Borismasters specifically, there would be no argument for not posting it on this thread, as it is about old buses in London mostly. Old buses generally don't have proper air con and the older ones tend to be hotter, so if that was meant in the article, then fine post on here, but from my reading of it, it is clearly about Borismasters. The article was posted in response to your argument that he is talking nonsense and bile, which considering the point that it proves you wrong, I, as the person who started this thread, don't mind as its an ongoing discussion. I just wish the whole discussion on this thread didn't include so much talk about Borismasters from the start, when there is another thread open for this. I should have just posted my initial comment in the Borismaster thread.

One comment is about temperatures on the tube and another is from somebody in Sidcup...........and LT's don't go anywhere near Sidcup!

 

[THarris123]

One comment is about temperatures on the tube and another is from somebody in Sidcup...........and LT's don't go anywhere near Sidcup!

Tube - someone comparing buses to the tube
Sidcup - read it again - someone from Sidcup - you dont suppose this person actually travelled away from Sidcup to London for a trip?

Your argument is flawed.

 

[Antman]

Tube - someone comparing buses to the tube
Sidcup - read it again - someone from Sidcup - you dont suppose this person actually travelled away from Sidcup to London for a trip?

Your argument is flawed.

They could have travelled anywhere............oh but it must have been an LT because no other buses get hot in hot weather do they?

Now if you don't mind I'm off to paint a fence, and then I'll sit and watch it dry:roll:

 

[THarris123]

They could have travelled anywhere............oh but it must have been an LT because no other buses get hot in hot weather do they?

Now if you don't mind I'm off to paint a fence, and then I'll sit and watch it dry:roll:

Well considering the main article and the headline is saying London, I'm guessing the person from Sidcup travelled into London and used a bus somewhere in London. Considering that the article mostly focuses on the new Borismasters, I'm guessing this person used a Borismaster.

Enjoy painting your fence, at least we won't have to put up with much more of someone digging a pit.

 

[the101]

What you have quoted is about public transport in general, not specifically about the Boris vanity project as you call it...

Hmmm.

while passengers on the new fleet of Routemaster buses

You really, really need to start reading things before commenting on them. Your never-ending misguided arguments (that would be avoided if you (a) bothered to read what is posted and (b) understood it) are becoming ever more tedious.

 

[ChrisPJ]

So we could have had normal 2 door 1 staircase buses for about 150 grand apiece less than the Roastmaster, which would've left plenty cash to add on aircon?