Why Can't First Get the Air-Con to Work on Their 158's?

[PHILIPE]

ATW Twitter been bombarded recently re complaints about 158s feeling like Saunas. Reply is to ask the guard who can probably adjust. I keep tweeting them to tell them that the guard at the time can't do anything about it but they still persist and that it is basically a design pronblem.

 

[applepie2100]

I can't speak for the 158's but we are working on the 334's so once we have our test rig up and running things should be better on those Juniper trains.

Do you happen to know what work is being done to the 334's? There had been a rumour a while back that it was to be a full HVAC replacement along with either locking up the windows again or replacing them with sealed units.

 

[Servotech Rail]

Do you happen to know what work is being done to the 334's? There had been a rumour a while back that it was to be a full HVAC replacement along with either locking up the windows again or replacing them with sealed units.

From what I've heard there are several things in the pipeline, what we are doing is to support the now obsolete Soprano HVAC plc's with test, repair\overhaul for the manufacturer.

 

[387star]

The GWR 158s are getting new air-con system as they go through refresh I understand 158956 will go back for said works

Also 158s will remain now on the portsmouth to cardiff line I believe

 

[Servotech Rail]

On Tuesday this week, I travelled on a Southern 377 from Victoria with a hopper open for the first time. I don't think the air-con had actually failed, so perhaps it was a precaution. Anyway, a surprisingly rare event. I also travelled yesterday on a Thameslink 387/1 where the air-con certainly had failed!

There a fair bit that can go wrong so I guess the question is what part of the HVAC unit failed?
This unit is from our 458 test rig, we don't touch the mechanical side and only overhaul the plc controller which is located in the bottom right of the unit.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there a particular component(s) of the air con units that seem more prone to failing when external temperatures get above a certain point?

 

[Servotech Rail]

Is there a particular component(s) of the air con units that seem more prone to failing when external temperatures get above a certain point?

From our side the plc's have just reached an age where they could do with a full electrical overhaul\component change to get them back to a good operational level.
As we know the mechanical parts will always work hardest on either very hot or very cold days, but it's not easy to say which would is more likely to fail first, the drawing below shows the parts of a typical saloon.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Does it make much difference on a DMU where you've got the extra heat underneath from the engine?

 

[Master29]

Easy solution - fit windows that open. I'm sick of these private companies raking in massive profits whilst sitting on their hands in sorting out air conditioning that is obviously not fit for purpose.

These units were built under BR which explains why too many companies being involved is the problem. An point for another thread perhaps like this one doing the rounds.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133065

 

[PHILIPE]

These units were built under BR which explains why too many companies being involved is the problem. An point for another thread perhaps like this one doing the rounds.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118375

This is the same thread as this.

 

[Parallel]

I spoke to a GWR guard a few days ago and he said there has been a lot of issues with the 158s' aircon or the trains themselves developing faults.

I know there are plans to sort the aircon in the future but this has been going on for so many years now. I'm pretty sure every GWR 158 I've been on recently has had the hopper windows open in at least one carriage.

ATW has been a mixed bag, the trains to and from Pwllheli have been mainly okay. On returning back to Birmingham, we joined with a unit from Aberystwyth (at Machynlleth) that had the windows open in both carriages.

 

[gareth950]

ATW Twitter been bombarded recently re complaints about 158s feeling like Saunas. Reply is to ask the guard who can probably adjust. I keep tweeting them to tell them that the guard at the time can't do anything about it but they still persist and that it is basically a design pronblem.

2 weekends ago I was on an ATW 143, on what was then the hottest day of the year so far, to find that the under-seat heaters were on full blast pumping out hot air. The train was beyond stifling. If I'd been going more than 2 stops it would've been completely unbearable and I would've changed trains, even though it was a Sunday.

 

[Haydn1971]

EMTs 158s heating and cooling systems seem to have regular faults too

 

[Master29]

This is the same thread as this.

Yes it is, Sorry I meant this one.


http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133065

 

[fgwrich]

2 weekends ago I was on an ATW 143, on what was then the hottest day of the year so far, to find that the under-seat heaters were on full blast pumping out hot air. The train was beyond stifling. If I'd been going more than 2 stops it would've been completely unbearable and I would've changed trains, even though it was a Sunday.

I know that feeling, 'GWRd' 150001 has received the new lav (although after 2 weeks in service still hasn't had it's tanks filled yet for handwashing!) but for some unknown reason also has the heaters stuck on in this particular coach as well. I travelled on it to Reading yesterday and was unbearably stifling - ended up moving to another less warmer coach in the end.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The Chilton 165s seam very good, is this same solution retro fittable to other older BR vintage DMUs?

 

[FGW_DID]

I know that feeling, 'GWRd' 150001 has received the new lav (although after 2 weeks in service still hasn't had it's tanks filled yet for handwashing!) but for some unknown reason also has the heaters stuck on in this particular coach as well. I travelled on it to Reading yesterday and was unbearably stifling - ended up moving to another less warmer coach in the end.

Have you reported this fact to anyone?

Units get flushed & tanked as part of the fuel point exam so it certainly shouldn't be empty for two weeks. I presume the toilets flushed therefore there should be water in the sink for hand washing, the fact you say there isn't suggests a fault which needs looking at, perhaps if someone mentioned it earlier, it could be fixed earlier!

Likewise for the heater on in the coach, which I read to be the same coach with the UAT (Universally Accessible Toilet). If it's reported it can be turned off / isolated on its next visit to the depot.

 

[superkev]

Shouldn't the train crew particularly the guard report train faults.
K

 

[Servotech Rail]

Shouldn't the train crew particularly the guard report train faults.
K

They may have done so, but without any service support for obsolescence issues the HVAC won't work.

 

[PHILIPE]

Extract from another thread:-

Funnily enough, in the recent hot weather I haven't had a single Northern 158 with non-working air-con. Did have a mk4 that was like an oven though!

 

[RobShipway]

I don't think any train company can get Aircon to work correctly, as it is either too cold for the time of year or too hot for the time of year for it to work as it should.

 

[Spartacus]

The problem with 158 air-con is that it's 158 air-con, it's just a lousy system that can't be made to work well for more than a few weeks. Refurbishing it won't fix it for long as it's simply not fit for purpose/badly designed. There's always some knocking around that work, but it really is pot luck, and if they've not been through the works for a few months, your luck's likely to be bad.

I've heard there is often one issue which isn't exactly of the air-con's making though. If it's playing up, some guards open the windows to help, leaving the air-con on, which I'm told is the worst thing to do, as the air-con thinks it's getting cold and starts pumping out HOT air! Right or wrong, I have to say since I was told I've noticed that opening the windows on a dodgy set does seem to only make things worse.

 

[LowLevel]

Which is why our maintenance controllers now tell you to use the maintenance override to stick it in pump down for a bit where available then isolate it. The engine going through it's timing sequence then shutting down automatically also achieves similar. The guard is unfortunately between a rock and a hard place with the crappy things - leave the saloon at well over 30 degrees also with little airflow or open the windows to at least get the airflow and risk the side effects - if it's any comfort to the passengers the cabs are often worse than the saloon.

 

[47271]

Scotrail 158 aircon is a lot better than it used to be as well. It's a long time since I've had a bad one, and it used to be the norm that they were sweltering on warm days.

Sorry, I take that back. I'm presently sat on a stinker between Edinburgh and Perth. It's one of the ones inherited from Alphaline I think with the light blue handles on top of the seats and the floor like your grandma's living room. Nasty experience all round.

 

[Juniper Driver]

With a short press of the stop button, they'll run on for a couple of minutes at most, not 15.

Our 158/159s shut down virtually straight away.Perhaps he means if E.P Key is taken off they shut down after 15 minutes.Automatically.