Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[southern442]

There is no-one more Conservative than a Scottish Conservative!

My grandma is a Scottish Conservative (although she no longer lives in Scotland), and having heard her remark that she likes Michael Gove, I can agree with you on that point.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Reported 180,000 more Labour Party members have signed up by paying their £25. I wonder where is the woodwork they have crawled out of. If Corbynites thay are members who, so far as the future of the party is concerned, can see no further than the end of their noses. I think I read that earlier mass signings up earlier prompted suspicions over the numbers being genuine.

The people that I know who have signed up are genuinely concerned about increasing inequality, the future of the NHS, affordable housing, the cost of education, Trident, zero-hours contracts etc etc. There is no woodwork, you can wonder all you like but you won't find it. If you seriously think that these peopleare all ex Militants from the early 1980's...well, I feel sorry for you.

 

[asylumxl]

The people that I know who have signed up are genuinely concerned about increasing inequality, the future of the NHS, affordable housing, the cost of education, Trident, zero-hours contracts etc etc. There is no woodwork, you can wonder all you like but you won't find it. If you seriously think that these peopleare all ex Militants from the early 1980's...well, I feel sorry for you.

According to some they're all ex-militants or soap-dodging students. Can't be anything else and be concerned with the direction the UK is heading.

 

[miami]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the Tories have their house pretty much in order.

May gave a solid, if not stellar performance at PMQs today. Labour continue to be a joke. Sad.

As someone who doesn't vote Labour or Tory (I did vote Tory in 2001 I believe) I listened to some of May's statements on PM yesterday, and again on the Ten O'Clock news last night. I was unimpressed. Is this supposed to be questions for the prime minister, or is it supposed to be some kind of theatrical "playing to the audience". Surely May should be addressing the person asking the question, not her own party of wild hyennas, or the labour back benches.

Perhaps it's just the way the BBC edited the session (and the guardian as well), but to me Corbyn came out far better than May in the summary.

I don't Corbyn is suitable leadership material - he's weaker than Major for starters, and unlike Major I disagree on many of his (and labours) policies, but to me he comes across far better with what I believe PMQ is about.

 

[me123]

They're potentially losing in Scotland to the Tories. In Scotland!!

You think the national Labour party are bad? SLAB are even more useless. In the last twenty years they've gone from being a virtually unstoppable force to a complete irrelevance. The two major parties in Scotland are now the SNP and the Conservatives, and I'm happy with that.

The results for Scotland (and indeed other regional results in full) here. Of note, the SNP vote share seems to have stayed fairly static at 51% (vs the 50% vote share at the general election), so it most likely represents unionists turning their back on Labour and going blue. I never thought that would happen in Scotland!

However, looking at the unweighted data you see that some 20% of votes across the UK seem to be up for grabs (the Don't Knows). So this could change.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is this supposed to be questions for the prime minister, or is it supposed to be some kind of theatrical "playing to the audience".

Well, given that it is televised what do you think? Very few questions are given a thorough answer.

PMQs is simply theatre - the real business of government happens outside of Parliament.

 

[DarloRich]

The people that I know who have signed up are genuinely concerned about increasing inequality, the future of the NHS, affordable housing, the cost of education, Trident, zero-hours contracts etc etc. There is no woodwork, you can wonder all you like but you won't find it. If you seriously think that these peopleare all ex Militants from the early 1980's...well, I feel sorry for you.

According to some they're all ex-militants or soap-dodging students. Can't be anything else and be concerned with the direction the UK is heading.

They can as concerned as they like - and I am concerned about those issues - but thier man wont deliver power and so wont be able to tackle any of those issues.

The momentum leader/chairman even said that winning elections isn't important! Genius :roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And you've proven my point. How can Labour form an effective government if it can't even form an effective opposition to anyone but each other?

Where did I even mention or blame the Tory Blairites for the parties lack of unity? Or did you just decide to make a gross assumption? The blame for this mess rests with both sides. The Labour party needs a united message, one with balance and compromises made on both sides.

The Tory party, despite their recent issues, are literally laughing at the Labour party tearing itself apart from the inside. They can't believe their luck I'm sure.

I feel we are both saying the same thing in different words (Labour needs one message, united). Somehow wires still get crossed. I suppose it's indicative of the entire party at the moment. Like beating your head against a brick wall.

Whilst I agree the key point is that to make any change sot society we have to be in power. Corbyn seems unwilling and unable to deliver that. What then?

The choice being made is to have a mouthpiece for nice comfortable lefty slogans as a "leader" and pressure group activities rather than power. What is the point?

 

[Butts]

You think the national Labour party are bad? SLAB are even more useless. In the last twenty years they've gone from being a virtually unstoppable force to a complete irrelevance. The two major parties in Scotland are now the SNP and the Conservatives, and I'm happy with that.

The results for Scotland (and indeed other regional results in full) here. Of note, the SNP vote share seems to have stayed fairly static at 51% (vs the 50% vote share at the general election), so it most likely represents unionists turning their back on Labour and going blue. I never thought that would happen in Scotland!

However, looking at the unweighted data you see that some 20% of votes across the UK seem to be up for grabs (the Don't Knows). So this could change.

My worry about the SNP is that unlike Labour they appear to have rather to much unity

To me it seems inconceivable that out of all their MP's, MSP's and MEP's none of them were in favour of Brexit or renewal of Trident. (or unwilling to put their heads above the parapet) This is almost like a "stepford" type situation and leaves SNP voters in favour of the two major policies unrepresented at the highest table.

Theres no need to commit hari-kari Labour style but a bit of dissent would be more realistic.

 

[northwichcat]

As someone who doesn't vote Labour or Tory (I did vote Tory in 2001 I believe) I listened to some of May's statements on PM yesterday, and again on the Ten O'Clock news last night. I was unimpressed. Is this supposed to be questions for the prime minister, or is it supposed to be some kind of theatrical "playing to the audience". Surely May should be addressing the person asking the question, not her own party of wild hyennas, or the labour back benches.

Perhaps it's just the way the BBC edited the session (and the guardian as well), but to me Corbyn came out far better than May in the summary.

I don't Corbyn is suitable leadership material - he's weaker than Major for starters, and unlike Major I disagree on many of his (and labours) policies, but to me he comes across far better with what I believe PMQ is about.

I haven't voted for either Labour or the Conservatives in any general election but I've voted for Labour on a local level on numerous occasions, including the recent PCC elections. I was willing to see how Corbyn did but now I think he has to go - he's unlikely to win a majority, while he can't even work with his own MPs so what chance does he have of trying to form a coalition with other parties in the event of a hung parliament? The Lib Dems thought Brown was too stubborn to work with in 2010!

Unfortunately with PMQs being honest and not being boastful about how much better everything is under your party is seen as being weak. Blair and Cameron were both seen as doing well at PMQs when they rarely answered questions and instead shouted out pre-prepared claims about how much better things are under their leadership. Brown had a go at answering questions in a more civilised manner in answering questions, while Corbyn has used a more civilised approach in asking questions and both have been seen as weak.

 

[RichmondCommu]

If the members who have joined the Labour Party in the last few months are people that voted LibDem, Conservative or indeed UKIP at the last election then we are certainly making strides forward. If not then I'm afraid we will continue to be a party of protest under Jeremy Corbyn and not one that is fit to govern to the country.

 

[Clip]

At £25 a pop they have certainly made some money for the party thats for sure.

Its almost like it was a plan all along

 

[miami]

Well, given that it is televised what do you think? Very few questions are given a thorough answer.

PMQs is simply theatre - the real business of government happens outside of Parliament.

Committees are also televised

 

[AlterEgo]

Committees are also televised

...to a small handful of anoraks on Parliament TV or the website.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

...to a small handful of anoraks on Parliament TV or the website.

"Anoraks" they may well be, but they are at least prepared to devote some of their time to actually watching that channel and its content, unlike some who cannot be bothered to put their other priorities aside, when they are actually given the chance to watch televised happenings in our chambers of democracy.

Before you ask, I have watched many televised happenings on that particular channel (which in my case is channel 131 on Freeview)..

 

[RichmondCommu]

Before you ask, I have watched many televised happenings on that particular channel (which in my case is channel 131 on Freeview)..

Paul, with the greatest respect you perhaps have more free time than others

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

If the members who have joined the Labour Party in the last few months are people that voted LibDem, Conservative or indeed UKIP at the last election then we are certainly making strides forward. If not then I'm afraid we will continue to be a party of protest under Jeremy Corbyn and not one that is fit to govern to the country.

You don't want to reach out to the 35% or so of people who feel disenfranchised and don't bother voting then?

 

[AlterEgo]

"Anoraks" they may well be, but they are at least prepared to devote some of their time to actually watching that channel and its content, unlike some who cannot be bothered to put their other priorities aside, when they are actually given the chance to watch televised happenings in our chambers of democracy.

Before you ask, I have watched many televised happenings on that particular channel (which in my case is channel 131 on Freeview)..

My point is that there isn't a large populist audience for committee hearings, so you don't get the theatre of PMQs, which is a weekly flagship event.

Only a few thousand people watch the Energy and Climate Change Committee live, for example.

 

[Flamingo]

Only a few thousand people watch the Energy and Climate Change Committee live, for example.

I'm always surprised at how many insomniacs there are

 

[PHILIPE]

The people that I know who have signed up are genuinely concerned about increasing inequality, the future of the NHS, affordable housing, the cost of education, Trident, zero-hours contracts etc etc. There is no woodwork, you can wonder all you like but you won't find it. If you seriously think that these peopleare all ex Militants from the early 1980's...well, I feel sorry for you.

I appreciate you disagree and I respect that and I would leave it at that, but that little bit about feeling sorry for me is over the top. Just say you disagree and leave it at that, please, otherwise it gives the impression that other people are not allowed to have an opinion which is different to yours.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm always surprised at how many insomniacs there are

You should try going to one in person.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If the members who have joined the Labour Party in the last few months are people that voted LibDem, Conservative or indeed UKIP at the last election then we are certainly making strides forward. If not then I'm afraid we will continue to be a party of protest under Jeremy Corbyn and not one that is fit to govern to the country.

You don't want to reach out to the 35% or so of people who feel disenfranchised and don't bother voting then?

Personally I'd love to reach out to those people, but I don't think that's the point of RichmondCommu's remarks.

The problem is that, in order to succeed as a party, Labour needs to persuade people who don't currently support its policies of the benefits of its approach. No party is ever going to get anywhere by appealing only to those who already agree with it (unless the base of people who already agree with you is like 45% of the population, which is not the case for any party in the UK). So we need to see people joining because they've been persuaded that Labour's approach is right.

On the whole, that's not happening. I'd say that the new members joining are overwhelmingly people who already agreed with the policies Corbyn and others on the left of Labour advocate. They are not converts to left-wing policies; rather, they are people who hadn't joined before because they didn't see Labour as pushing those policies sufficiently. That's great as it goes, and I'm very glad to have those people as members. But sooner or later, the pool of people who already agree with Corbyn is going to run out: There's not nearly enough of them by themselves to win elections in most of the country. At the moment I see no indication that Corbyn or those around him understand that problem. Time after time, Corbyn goes and speaks only to the people who already support him. That's why I, like RichmondCommu, want to see evidence of people who voted Conservative, LibDem or UKIP, coming to Labour in significant numbers.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't like the idea that we as a society seem to be unwilling to accept a leader who doesn't tick all the traditional boxes of what a "leader" looks like. However we are where we are and it is plain to see for anyone who hasn't buried their head in the sand that Jeremy Corbyn is not seen as a potential prime minister by a large chunk of the population.

For me now, the best case scenario for the party is a narrow victory for Owen Smith. Smith is clearly left of centre, but not to the extremes of the SWP-influenced Momentum group behind Corbyn, and I believe he is someone with the ability to unite the party providing that a reasonable proportion of the Corbynites are actually open to compromise. Corbyn standing down and relinquishing the leadership would be better still, but I can't see that happening.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I appreciate you disagree and I respect that and I would leave it at that, but that little bit about feeling sorry for me is over the top. Just say you disagree and leave it at that, please, otherwise it gives the impression that other people are not allowed to have an opinion which is different to yours.

Fair point and I apologise. I think that was OTT for me, just to say I got carried away!

 

[PHILIPE]

Fair point and I apologise. I think that was OTT for me, just to say I got carried away!

Thanks. Don't worry about it.

 

[Busaholic]

I'm always surprised at how many insomniacs there are

We haven't got the test card any longer.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't like the idea that we as a society seem to be unwilling to accept a leader who doesn't tick all the traditional boxes of what a "leader" looks like.

A white, middle class, university educated man from Wiltshire in his 60s?

(Only messing; I get your point)

 

[cjmillsnun]

We haven't got the test card any longer.

or the learning zone. I used to enjoy that.

 

[PHILIPE]

John McDonnell today blaming people for rocking the boat and calling for unity themselves. He and Corbyn and cronies have already done that themselves.
People wouldn't resign from the Shadow Cabinet without a good reason and these are the people who have to work under Corbyn and not all the thousands of Party members.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't like the idea that we as a society seem to be unwilling to accept a leader who doesn't tick all the traditional boxes of what a "leader" looks like. However we are where we are and it is plain to see for anyone who hasn't buried their head in the sand that Jeremy Corbyn is not seen as a potential prime minister by a large chunk of the population.

For me now, the best case scenario for the party is a narrow victory for Owen Smith. Smith is clearly left of centre, but not to the extremes of the SWP-influenced Momentum group behind Corbyn, and I believe he is someone with the ability to unite the party providing that a reasonable proportion of the Corbynites are actually open to compromise. Corbyn standing down and relinquishing the leadership would be better still, but I can't see that happening.

It isn't that he doesn't look like a leader but more that he doesn't act like a leader and actually lead!

Corbyn, his cronies and the momentum types have declared they have no interest in winning an election. They want a nice, comradely, right on talking shop where the compromises needed to win power aren't considered and the ability to actually change anything the nice slogans are aimed at is rejected entirely.

It is puritanical socialism which ensures the people really suffering under Tory rule and consigned to almost constant Tory rule. It is enraging that they seek to transform a serious political party into a joke rather than try to win power and change things.

 

[furnessvale]

It isn't that he doesn't look like a leader but more that he doesn't act like a leader and actually lead!

Corbyn, his cronies and the momentum types have declared they have no interest in winning an election. They want a nice, comradely, right on talking shop where the compromises needed to win power aren't considered and the ability to actually change anything the nice slogans are aimed at is rejected entirely.

It is puritanical socialism which ensures the people really suffering under Tory rule and consigned to almost constant Tory rule. It is enraging that they seek to transform a serious political party into a joke rather than try to win power and change things.

That reminds me. I must watch "Life of Brian" again!