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Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

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tsr

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If so then that would appear to be a very retrograde step. I have been driving these units since their introduction in 1999 and stopped engines has always been a relatively common occurence. Isolate the engine and doors and carry on has always been the procedure. Sometimes units run about like this for many hours or even days in a 6 car formation. If Southern are going to remove a unit from service every time an engine cannot be restarted good luck to them. Loss of run signal, oil and coolant sensor issues are so common it's ridiculous.

Stopped engines are common on 171s too. There is or was at least one of the /8s out there which has been running with the engine automatically shutting down every few minutes... for months. For the last couple of years, at least, and up until now, these issues have not been causing many severe delays or cancellations in service... with the ex-170s no doubt this may change. The difference with the original Southern ones is that they will cross-feed so that you don't lose interlock (which is likely to happen whether or not the doors are locked) if you can only supply electrical power from half the coaches. Presumably it may be because of this that the interlock is able to be broken even if the coach is locked out of use and the engine isolated; it theoretically allows the train to detect a problem which has resulted in loss of interlock even if there is no electrical power originating in that coach, because the system should still be maintained by the supplies from another coach. I've needed to sort this sort of stuff out in practice on 171s, never actually to compare it to a 170 or ex-170, but this is how I've found it works and this is in line with what I was taught.

So this seems to be a difference between the newer 171s a and older 170s. Maybe Southern are unaware that you can still get the brakes off if a 170 engine fails and batteries die.

Maybe Southern are assuming that because they don't cross feed, then there is no battery charging or power for interlock avaliable.

Perhaps a different way of phrasing it is that they don't realise that coach doesn't have problems being proven interlocked if there is no power but the doors are locked OOU. Doors are a funny thing on 171s, and assuming that what is vaguely normal with them also applies to anything else is probably a bit of an issue in and of itself...

As (very much) a side note, I also understand the buzzer on the 171/7 and /8 equates to a bell noise on the /2 and /4 (ex-170s). I wonder if there is also any difference to how the conductor proves interlock? The interlock light has never been functional with a conductor's key in the panel on a 171, and interlock is checked first by BIL lights all being extinguished, then by the panels' buzzer sounders only being activated when interlock is achieved... I'm wondering if any change has emerged, but I don't think any brief has gone out.
 
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LBSCR Times

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The first 10 car working starts on Monday 25th July;-

5E10 05+30 Selhurst Depot to Uckfield
1E10 07 05 Uckfield to London Bridge
1L81 08 32 London Bridge to Oxted
1L99 09 14 Oxted to London Bridge
5J03 09+56 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot

5E43 14+55 Selhurst Depot to London Bridge
1E45 16 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E52 17 32 Uckfield to London Bridge
1E59 19 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E64 20 34 Uckfield to London Bridge
5J64 22+01 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot
 

Techniquest

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Ooh nice, I must remember these times for my forthcoming trip to London. Quick spin on the 1608 from Bridge to East Croydon will go down nicely!
 

class387

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The first 10 car working starts on Monday 25th July;-

5E10 05+30 Selhurst Depot to Uckfield
1E10 07 05 Uckfield to London Bridge
1L81 08 32 London Bridge to Oxted
1L99 09 14 Oxted to London Bridge
5J03 09+56 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot

5E43 14+55 Selhurst Depot to London Bridge
1E45 16 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E52 17 32 Uckfield to London Bridge
1E59 19 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E64 20 34 Uckfield to London Bridge
5J64 22+01 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot

Will this be formed of original 171s, the ex-170s or a combination of both?
 

physics34

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The first 10 car working starts on Monday 25th July;-

5E10 05+30 Selhurst Depot to Uckfield
1E10 07 05 Uckfield to London Bridge
1L81 08 32 London Bridge to Oxted
1L99 09 14 Oxted to London Bridge
5J03 09+56 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot

5E43 14+55 Selhurst Depot to London Bridge
1E45 16 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E52 17 32 Uckfield to London Bridge
1E59 19 08 London Bridge to Uckfield
1E64 20 34 Uckfield to London Bridge
5J64 22+01 London Bridge to Selhurst Depot

Hmmmm the AM part is what is currently a 8 car but the PM one is currently a 6 and is not the busiest of the Uckfield services.
 

Chrisgr31

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Hmmmm the AM part is what is currently a 8 car but the PM one is currently a 6 and is not the busiest of the Uckfield services.

My suspicion is that whilst the 7.05 ex Uckfield is the busiest train its only the busiest because its 8 carriages. If the 6.30 (or whatever time it is) was longer I think a number of people would move from the 7.05 to it.

The 18.06 is the busiest home but thats partly because a halfhourly service starts at 15:05 but stops at 17:05 returning to an hourly service. People that finish work at 17:00 or 17:30 which will be most all have to catch the 18:06.

Incidentially how is the testing of the new units going? I wont be on the 10 coach on Monday morning even though its my usual train, I need to catch the first train on Monday.
 

trainmania100

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Anyone know if the vstp 5E91 today to Uckfield will be a converted unit? I happen to be in the area when it passes eridge
Thanks
 

Class455

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Northern signed an agreement on 16x 170. The remaining 13 units were later agreed to be retained by ScotRail, with the five currently sub-leased by Southern due to transfer soon.
Out of interest, which are the 5 ScotRail unit due for transfer to Southern soon?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Quick spin on the 1608 from Bridge to East Croydon will go down nicely!
Interesting, that used to be a six car train, so in effect a 171/4 is most likely to be added to the 171s that work the service.
 
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theageofthetra

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Saw it this morning whilst driving into London Bridge on the SE side. The rear cab which was the Scottish two car appeared to have a few staff in it- presumably testing/monitoring ?
 

158722

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Also says today that they are due to go to Doncaster to be re-liveried to Scotrail livery. So doubtful these are the unit to be transferred.

Believe what you want, but 170416-424 are the only Eversholt owned 170s with ScotRail and it is these 9 which have gone off lease - 421-424 with TSGN as 171s already and 416-420 sub-leased back to ScotRail from TSGN, until released by E&G electrification.
 

JonathanH

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Also says today that they are due to go to Doncaster to be re-liveried to Scotrail livery. So doubtful these are the unit to be transferred.

Believe what you want, but 170416-424 are the only Eversholt owned 170s with ScotRail and it is these 9 which have gone off lease - 421-424 with TSGN as 171s already and 416-420 sub-leased back to ScotRail from TSGN, until released by E&G electrification.

Where is this stated ?

Nine messages up (original source Scot-rail forum)

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2643719&postcount=1121

But wasn't it previously mooted that, given the work needed on 170421-170424, Southern wasn't particularly interested in 170416-170420 any more?
 

swt_passenger

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But wasn't it previously mooted that, given the work needed on 170421-170424, Southern wasn't particularly interested in 170416-170420 any more?

Yes it was mentioned, but what level of rumour might that have been on a scale of 1 to 10?

Where 1 is the platform cat, and 10 is a TOC or Rosco rolling stock manager's signature?
 

Deepgreen

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I saw 171402 at London Bridge this morning. It looked immaculate - is this one of the Scotrail conversions? Photo attached.
 

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