Hot weather and disruption

[al78]

Note that countries which have to prepare for temperatures exceeding 30oC on a regular basis might rarely/never encounter temperatures below freezing point. I wonder if we're actually better prepared for hot temperatures than countries like Sweden and Norway.

I would be surprised if we were much, if any better prepared. The mean July maximum temperature in Stockholm is about 22C, which is similar to London. The record high for Stockholm is 36C which is only marginally lower than the record high of 38.5C recorded at Faversham (Kent) in August 2003.

 

[northwichcat]

I would be surprised if we were much, if any better prepared. The mean July maximum temperature in Stockholm is about 22C, which is similar to London. The record high for Stockholm is 36C which is only marginally lower than the record high of 38.5C recorded at Faversham (Kent) in August 2003.

Using a mean temperature or record high can be misleading. A more relevant piece of information might be the mean number of days per year where the temperature exceeds or drops below a certain number.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Problems yesterday at Selby Swing Bridge after opening for river craft, would not close due to rails expanded by 3mm thus not allowing it to close causing problems for Trans Pennine, Hull Trains and Northern as well as freight trains.

Also problems with Keadby Canal Drawbridge which also failed about 5-00pm due to opening for a canal boat causing problems again for Trans pennine and Northern trains as well as freight trains.

Problems with the rails 2 days running on Barton / Cleethorpes line on the Barton branch so buses instead of trains.

For any moving bridge that takes a railway line over a canal or river, if a known issue means that it's got to be locked in place one way or the other and stay that until the issue has been resolved, who has legal right of way?

 

[Bald Rick]

The issue when comparing other countries is not one of temperature maxima or minima, but that of temperature range, and how quickly the temperature can move through the range. Most Mediterranean countries do not have to deal with temps below freezing, and most countries 'up north' don't need to deal with temperatures in the mid to high 30s.

There are, however plenty of places that do have similar temperature ranges, such as much of the US, central / Eastern Europe and Russia. And they do tend to have the same sort of problems as our network. Generally, however, their networks are less intensively used, so the implications are often less severe.

As an example, I was once on a train from DC to NY on what was (then) the hottest May day ever recorded there. The OLE sagged, and my train brought the wires down for about 2 miles. 4 tracks, headspans, job and we were delayed 4 hours. (Turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it just meant that Mrs BR had 4 hours less shopping time in the big apple).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

For any moving bridge that takes a railway line over a canal or river, if a known issue means that it's got to be locked in place one way or the other and stay that until the issue has been resolved, who has legal right of way?

That depends on the original enabling act for the railway (or watercourse if it came later); and any subsequent agreements.

Usually it's the watercourse. I know that the fine for not opening Somerleyton swing bridge when required to do so by maritime traffic is as per the original railway act - £20 IIRC.

 

[D1009]

These conditions also lead to an increase in delays due to passengers taken ill in my experience, particularly on trains with unreliable air conditioning.

 

[PHILIPE]

These conditions also lead to an increase in delays due to passengers taken ill in my experience, particularly on trains with unreliable air conditioning.

ATW tweeting passengers to carry bottle of water with them

 

[cf111]

Pacers don't have heaters, they pump waste engine heat in to the saloon - brilliant idea if they were only to be used in the very North of Scotland!

We actually have quite mild winters for the most part, the sea regulates the air temperature well.

 

[D365]

Problems with the rails 2 days running on Barton / Cleethorpes line on the Barton branch so buses instead of trains.

Buses? What buses? I was stuck at Cleethorpes for nearly three hours yesterday night, half of the taxis were turning back due to not being paid upfront.

 

[AM9]

We actually have quite mild winters for the most part, the sea regulates the air temperature well.

The whole issue of how the UK, or any industrialised country deals with extreme weather conditions is one of economics. For a given climate, there will be probabilities for abnormal maxima and minima, in temperature, winds, precipitation, sea states etc.. The clever bit is to get the durability of the infrastructure to maintain service through all but the most infrequent extremes. It is impossible to cater for every eventuality.
The UK media just love to print faux stories about the lack of preparedness in this country contrasting how everything grinds to a halt when there are a few hot days, a dusting of snow, or gale force winds, whereas other countries cope so well with conditions far worse than ours. What they conveniently omit is the level of investment that these wonderfully efficient countries have to go to cope with these conditions.
There would be howls of protest about waste and inefficiency if the UK had track and OLE that could guarantee normal operation with temperature ranges say down to -20C and up to +40C and snow ploughs that could remove 1.5m of snow that were only used once every 30 years.
In practice, it may be inconvenient if trains are cancelled for a couple of days each year but provided the system is generally fail-safe, nobody is likely to get seriously hurt. Just consider the number of older or weak residents in parts of our cities who will die this week through high temperatures and road traffic pollution. Despite continually exceeding EU and WHO safe limits, no administration risks its electability trying to deal with the issue.

 

[al78]

The whole issue of how the UK, or any industrialised country deals with extreme weather conditions is one of economics. For a given climate, there will be probabilities for abnormal maxima and minima, in temperature, winds, precipitation, sea states etc.. The clever bit is to get the durability of the infrastructure to maintain service through all but the most infrequent extremes. It is impossible to cater for every eventuality.
The UK media just love to print faux stories about the lack of preparedness in this country contrasting how everything grinds to a halt when there are a few hot days, a dusting of snow, or gale force winds, whereas other countries cope so well with conditions far worse than ours. What they conveniently omit is the level of investment that these wonderfully efficient countries have to go to cope with these conditions.
There would be howls of protest about waste and inefficiency if the UK had track and OLE that could guarantee normal operation with temperature ranges say down to -20C and up to +40C and snow ploughs that could remove 1.5m of snow that were only used once every 30 years.
In practice, it may be inconvenient if trains are cancelled for a couple of days each year but provided the system is generally fail-safe, nobody is likely to get seriously hurt. Just consider the number of older or weak residents in parts of our cities who will die this week through high temperatures and road traffic pollution. Despite continually exceeding EU and WHO safe limits, no administration risks its electability trying to deal with the issue.

Whilst I agree generally, I can't help thinking that sometimes the UK is badly prepared for conditions that don't really deviate that much from the middle tercile. No-one is expecting perfect operation in the 1 in 200 year event such as the October 1987 storm or winter 1962/3, but major struggling in temperatures of 25-30C which occur somewhere in the UK virtually every year is poor in my opinion. Yes I would expect chaos if 1.5 meters of snow fell (which, since none of the national rail network goes over the Cairngorm plateau isn't going to happen) but I would not expect significant disruption if half an inch fell overnight (and I don't think it does to be fair). In other words the rail network ought to be able to cope with conditions that occur in more years than not, if not then it is too flaky and lacking in robustness. I also fail to see what the mortality of vulnerable people has to do with the robustness of the rail network.

 

[theageofthetra]

There are places which have very high and low temperatures and manage to run a rail service. Beijing can have temps as low as -20 & summer can easily hit the 40's- what do they do differently? A/C in both passenger saloons and cabs that can't cope in conditions that are hardly that extreme are in my opinion a disgrace and should never been accepted as part of the procurement process.

 

[AM9]

Whilst I agree generally, I can't help thinking that sometimes the UK is badly prepared for conditions that don't really deviate that much from the middle tercile. No-one is expecting perfect operation in the 1 in 200 year event such as the October 1987 storm or winter 1962/3, but major struggling in temperatures of 25-30C which occur somewhere in the UK virtually every year is poor in my opinion. Yes I would expect chaos if 1.5 meters of snow fell (which, since none of the national rail network goes over the Cairngorm plateau isn't going to happen) but I would not expect significant disruption if half an inch fell overnight (and I don't think it does to be fair). In other words the rail network ought to be able to cope with conditions that occur in more years than not, if not then it is too flaky and lacking in robustness.

From an engineering standpoint, I don't disagree at all with your words, but the railways, at least in the UK, are also a political football. There is a constant 'value for money' dialogue that applies constant pressure on both NR and TOCs to keep costs below some idealised notion of how much it should cost. This pressure is augmented by regular sniping by the largely right-wing press that grudgingly accepts its very existence because a significant proportion of their readerships rely on rail travel in their commutes or business requirements.
In my lifetime, the nationalised and more recently privatised network has been forced down money saving engineering paths that have ended in tragedy, e.g. unrealistic expectations of staff deemed to have caused the Clapham disaster and Railtrack's maintenance lapses that caused the derailment at Hatfield to mention just two.
Fortunately with a more safety aware culture generally, Network Rail's record on track failure is much better, the emphasis being on engineering a PW for reliability over a temperature range. As Bald_Rick says, reliability does fall off above about 23degC but fortunately, regular temperatures above that are still a minor part of our weather cycle. It is possible to design track to cope with temperatures over 40C, but that would be more expensive to install and maintain particularly with the density of traffic on major routes. The additional expense would trigger a chorus of criticism from those in the media who have nothing better to offer.
As far as the TOCs are concerned, they are hemmed-in by the one-dimensional culture of lowest bid wins. The DfT don't have to face the music when trains fail to cope with higher temperatures, but they do get dictats from the exchequer and No. 10 about how much they should allow. These days, virtually all new and recent trains in the UK are version of globally deployed deisgns. There are Desiros and Aventras operating in far more harsh environments that we ever get here. The Hitachi A100/200/300 trains on order will be version of designs that are running quite happily in both hotter and colder climates. What is different, apart from the slightly smaller loading gauge is the pressure to force prices down, leading to cut corners both at acquisition and during support phases.

I also fail to see what the mortality of vulnerable people has to do with the robustness of the rail network.

The mortality of vulnerable people is (or should be) a primary concern of all. For their part, the modern railway has a very good human safety record, and despite the inconvenience of delays and cancellations in inclement weather, those events do not pose a significant health or safety threat. There is however a very serious issue of rail's competing transport mode, (i.e. road transport) regularly impacting on the health and lives of those who don't even necessarily use the mode. We could take the howling of complaints when the sun comes out a bit more seriously if the more important issues were given more attention.

 

[lincolnshire]

For any moving bridge that takes a railway line over a canal or river, if a known issue means that it's got to be locked in place one way or the other and stay that until the issue has been resolved, who has legal right of way?

The legal right of way is the river traffic or canal traffic as they were there before the railway arrived. To amend it would need an Act of Parliament.

Selby Swing Bridge was fitted with water sprinklers, but I don,t think they was replaced after it was strengthened and painted a couple of years ago. Would they have made a difference then?

 

[Bald Rick]

It's also fair to say that, of course, we don't hear in the UK media when poor weather disrupts other railways.

Last year for example, during a hot spell, all the suburban railways in Paris were subject to a blanket speed restriction, and all TGVs limited to 200kph. Massive disruption ensued. Similarly, I was in Geneva last year the morning after 2cm of snow fell. Motorway system gridlock.

But you won't read that in the Daily Express.

 

[lincolnshire]

Buses? What buses? I was stuck at Cleethorpes for nearly three hours yesterday night, half of the taxis were turning back due to not being paid upfront.

I could only go on what Radio Humberside Drive Time radio show was reporting.

If the taxis was on contract and refused and wanted paying upfront then the rail replacement company organising the taxis should never use them again and they should be banned from any Network Rail station property and be reported to the taxi licensing authority and suggest refusal of licence when its up for renewal.

 

[gavin]

A lightning strike between Darlington and Newcastle caused delays late yesterday morning

The 4th day of major disruption on the ECML in a row

Sunday

Person hit by a train Longniddry

Trespassers on the line at Peterborough

Monday

Fire alarm in the signal box near Kings Cross

Tuesday

Broken down train between Stevenage and Peterborough

Broken down train between York and Doncaster

Speed restrictions due to the heat between King's Cross and Peterborough

Wednesday

Broken down train between Doncaster and Wakefield

Lightning strike damaged the signalling system between Darlington and Newcastle

 

[northwichcat]

That'd be fun in a 390.

If they sent a Pacer over that the driver will permanently lose their hearing!

 

[Deepgreen]

The issue when comparing other countries is not one of temperature maxima or minima, but that of temperature range, and how quickly the temperature can move through the range. Most Mediterranean countries do not have to deal with temps below freezing, and most countries 'up north' don't need to deal with temperatures in the mid to high 30s.

There are, however plenty of places that do have similar temperature ranges, such as much of the US, central / Eastern Europe and Russia. And they do tend to have the same sort of problems as our network. Generally, however, their networks are less intensively used, so the implications are often less severe.

As an example, I was once on a train from DC to NY on what was (then) the hottest May day ever recorded there. The OLE sagged, and my train brought the wires down for about 2 miles. 4 tracks, headspans, job and we were delayed 4 hours. (Turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as it just meant that Mrs BR had 4 hours less shopping time in the big apple).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


That depends on the original enabling act for the railway (or watercourse if it came later); and any subsequent agreements.

Usually it's the watercourse. I know that the fine for not opening Somerleyton swing bridge when required to do so by maritime traffic is as per the original railway act - £20 IIRC.

I expect, though, that it was still 'your fault'! Good point about temperature ranges and so on. The large northern continents have amazing ranges - areas of Siberia, for example, can often experience an annual range of -50 to 35C. It's very hard to stress rails for that range!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Topically, the RSSB has just published a report into the pre-emptive work that will need to be undertaken by NR to future proof the network against climate change and severe weather including heat waves:

http://www.rssb.co.uk/industry-news/climate-change-adaptation-costs-set-to-soar-on-the-railway

It'd be even worse if the RSPB had their way, bird blendering eco crusifixes everywhere - no thanks. They seem to have welded that tinfoil hat on a bit tight.

 

[D365]

I could only go on what Radio Humberside Drive Time radio show was reporting.

If the taxis was on contract and refused and wanted paying upfront then the rail replacement company organising the taxis should never use them again and they should be banned from any Network Rail station property and be reported to the taxi licensing authority and suggest refusal of licence when its up for renewal.

The only replacement 'buses' that turned up were two minibuses at about 8.30pm - bearing in mind that some people had been there since 5pm. Absolutely agree that the offending drivers and companies should be barred, there were young children and week-old babies waiting in the car park without milk or shelter from the heat. Disgusting.

 

[philthetube]

I could only go on what Radio Humberside Drive Time radio show was reporting.

If the taxis was on contract and refused and wanted paying upfront then the rail replacement company organising the taxis should never use them again and they should be banned from any Network Rail station property and be reported to the taxi licensing authority and suggest refusal of licence when its up for renewal.

I dont think taxi drivers have to carry anyone they don't want and they certainly don't have to carry people with a promise of payment a couple of months down the line,

There may be an account with the taxi firm but their won't be a contract,

lets report all train companies who insist on payment before a journey is made.

 

[gavin]

Speed restrictions have been imposed between Crystal Palace and New Cross Gate due to high track temperature

Southern services from Crystal Palace to New Cross Gate may not call at Sydenham , Forest Hill, Honar Oak Park and Brockley.