Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[asylumxl]

I was born in 1945 in Manchester in the northern very poor border area of blaa blaa blaa

Question is, were your political leanings always as they are today or did they change with your climb up the socioeconomic ladder?

 

[Flamingo]

Are these some of the same people who the freedom of the Referendum vote allowed a "Leave" vote to succeed. The RMT was most certainly in favour of a "Leave" vote in the referendum.

You say Corbyn is allowing Labour PM's to make their decision. I thought he just regarded them as naught but a figurehead, to be disregarded when the mood took him.

I really must dust off my first edition of Animal Farm to see if I can draw any comparisons to recent Labour Party happenings....:roll:

The RMT is not affiliated with the Labour Party, it supports the Trades Unionist and Socialist Coalition, although this is strongly in favour of Jeremy Corbyn judging by it's website http://m.tusc.org.uk. It does put candidates up for election against Labour Party.

This (along with the actual quality of the candidates the TUSC has fielded that I have known - I would'nt have voted for them as assistant borough dog-catcher) is one aspect of the RMT I am very uncomfortable with...
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Question is, were your political leanings alwajys as they are today or did they change with your climb up the socioeconomic ladder?

Read this, then reflect on it
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...more-conservative-with-age-young-old-politics

 

[asylumxl]

Read this, then reflect on it
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...more-conservative-with-age-young-old-politics

I didn't ask if he's become more conservative with age. I asked if he became more conservative with affluence.

 

[kegdr]

and anybody less than fairly right-wing!
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The Polaris was carried by the four 'R boats' (Resolution, Repulse, Renown and Revenge).
The Trident II (current) is carried by the four 'V boats' (Vanguard, Victorious, Vigilant and Vengeance).
Letters 'S' has been used on the Swiftsure class of conventional subs (nuclear powered) and 'T' used on the Trafalgar class that replaced them. 'U' would not be politically appropriate for subs so the next available letter is 'W'.
Anybody like to suggest a class name - (NOT Wxxxx McWxxxxface though!)

First name that comes to my mind is Warspite, although its already been used on a now retired attack submarine.

 

[Flamingo]

I didn't ask if he's become more conservative with age. I asked if he became more conservative with affluence.

And I was trying to point out that is a major oversimplification of a complex socialogical issue.

Or do you not do complicated?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Question is, were your political leanings always as they are today or did they change with your climb up the socioeconomic ladder?

Political leanings are not one that were of concern to me in my days at primary school, but at St Bede's College from the age of 13 in the Upper Fourth, I was particularly interested in how economic rather than social matters had affected Britain after the end of WWII and had many after-school Discussion Society meetings, where to me, the Conservative viewpoint on most matters, especially that of defence of the realm were of concern. It is important to note that my father had relatives still living in Poland under the Communist regime there in 1958, as Prime Minister Jozef Cyrankiewicz (who was the politician who came from the background of the Communist-inspired Polish United Workers Party) was in power from 1954 to 1970 which would have coloured my viewpoint.

Does this answer your query?

 

[asylumxl]

And I was trying to point out that is a major oversimplification of a complex socialogical issue.

Or do you not do complicated?

I certainly don't. That's why I'm replying to you my friend [emoji16] .
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Political leanings are not one that were of concern to me in my days at primary school, but at St Bede's College from the age of 13 in the Upper Fourth, I was particularly interested in how economic rather than social matters had affected Britain after the end of WWII and had many after-school Discussion Society meetings, where to me, the Conservative viewpoint on most matters, especially that of defence of the realm were of concern. It is important to note that my father had relatives still living in Poland under the Communist regime there in 1958, as Prime Minister Jozef Cyrankiewicz (who was the politician who came from the background of the Communist-inspired Polish United Workers Party) was in power from 1954 to 1970 which would have coloured my viewpoint.

Does this answer your query?

Somewhat. I respect that you admit your family's experience may have coloured your viewpoint. Perhaps if I have more questions I will ask them via PM.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Somewhat. I respect that you admit your family's experience may have coloured your viewpoint. Perhaps if I have more questions I will ask them via PM.

I think that would be the best course of action to adopt. Incidentally, you may be interested to note that when the referendum was in a state of flux, I did have the common sense to listen to one of my brokers who transferred a very large sum of my pounds sterling holdings into dollars, which has shown a most healthy financial appreciation, but again, I dare not reveal the methodology of cross-country reversal capital that was used.

 

[Harbornite]

Not sure a design has been ordered yet has it? Looks like a massive waste of money to me. Possibly could have spent it on better aircraft carriers and better aircraft to go on them rather than a weapons system that if it ever gets used will probably result in the extermination of the human race.

You should consider that aircraft carriers are not suitable for the storage and deployment of our nuclear deterrent! We need both I'm afraid.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You should consider that aircraft carriers are not suitable for the storage and deployment of our nuclear deterrent! We need both I'm afraid.

Aircraft carriers are not invincible against some of the more modern missile strike as was revealed in the Falklands War when the Argentine forces, seeing the large non-visual image that appeared on their screen monitors and assumed it was a an aircraft carrier.

We all know of the fate that then overtook the very large acting supply ship, the SS Atlantic Conveyor, which was then hit by two air-launched AM39 Exocet missiles in the attack that sunk that vessel, which amongst other items carried were helicopters that would have been useful to the British forces had they been landed.

 

[Harbornite]

Aircraft carriers are not invincible against some of the more modern missile strike as was revealed in the Falklands War when the Argentine forces, seeing the large non-visual image that appeared on their screen monitors and assumed it was a an aircraft carrier.

We all know of the fate that then overtook the very large acting supply ship, the SS Atlantic Conveyor, which was then hit by two air-launched AM39 Exocet missiles in the attack that sunk that vessel, which amongst other items carried were helicopters that would have been useful to the British forces had they been landed.

Indeed, there are concerns that aircraft carriers are going the way of the battleship- obsolescence. However, the UK won't be canning its pair of brand new QE Class ships and F35B JSF aircraft.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The RMT is not affiliated with the Labour Party, it supports the Trades Unionist and Socialist Coalition, although this is strongly in favour of Jeremy Corbyn judging by it's website http://m.tusc.org.uk. It does put candidates up for election against Labour Party.

What now purports to be the Labour Party, with its Momentum beliefs, is something very near to the ideologically inspired thinking of the RMT and one that they could well re-align with, should the Momentum-led movement take the Labour Party into undreamt of excursions into the extreme left wing Socialist utopia, where all and sundry will have carte blanche to carry and display copies of the Socialist Worker in that very strange fashion of displaying the newspaper fully opened held in front of the person, front page outermost , so the name of the paper is clear for all to see.

I have often harboured unkind thoughts of standing near to such a person, with my copy of the Financial Times held aloft in a similar fashion...

 

[cjmillsnun]

I wish they would can the F35. Their development has become a money pit and they're not particular good at anything they do. Even prominent people in the American military have admitted it. There are far better options for current generation fighter jets.

Indeed. The RAF refer to it as DAVE. Delayed And Very Expensive.

 

[cjmillsnun]

So classic hard left infiltration.

But I can't help wondering whether the party shattering is indeed almost inevitable or whether when the crunch comes they'll bottle it and all fall in behind Corbyn, whatever the consequences for electability.

It will happen (It would've happened if Benn had beaten Healey for the deputy leadership in '81 - Labour MP's would've gone to the SDP in droves). If they don't they know they'll be out of a job.

Corbyn's Labour results in a GE will not be pretty and may well put them in 3rd place behind either UKIP or the SNP. They may well even gift the Lib Dems a few gains. Meanwhile May would get a landslide.

 

[miami]

The SNP can't do better than they have this time, a weak labour may actually drive votes to the tories and could see an SNP swing to Tory (is the gerrymandering applyin north of the border too?)

UKIP are already the third party in terms of votes, however are about 8th in terms of seats thanks to the undemocratic way the system works. I don't see them increasing votes in 2020, as by then we'll either be out of Europe, or will have failed to leave

A weak labour could well mean a lib dem second party.

 

[northwichcat]

The SNP can't do better than they have this time, a weak labour may actually drive votes to the tories and could see an SNP swing to Tory (is the gerrymandering applyin north of the border too?)
...
A weak labour could well mean a lib dem second party.

Like I mentioned before the SNP won 3 seats in Scotland from the Lib Dems by the skin of their teeth, it wouldn't need the Lib Dems to improve much for the SNP to lose those seats.
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Lilian Greenwood has spoken out against Corbyn:

A long-planned campaign day to flag up the increase in rail fares was completely overshadowed by Corbyn, who decided to announce a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle on the same day: “I respect completely Jeremy’s right to reshuffle his top team. But why then? It was unnecessary and it was incompetent.”

Despite agreement with Greenwood and Corbyn’s director of policy that the party would support HS2, the Labour leader gave an interview in which he suggested support for the project could be dropped: “I felt totally undermined on a really difficult issue.”
Corbyn publicly took a Eurosceptic position on an EU rail package, despite his policy staff agreeing a different position: “It undermined me, my staff and his staff. I wondered why I was bothering to put in the hard work.”

Corbyn’s decision to call for an immediate triggering of Article 50 after the EU referendum was taken without any discussion with the Shadow Cabinet: “Jeremy made a major announcement on the Party’s position without waiting to discuss it with the Shadow Cabinet, without even consulting the leader of our MEPs in Europe.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...rbyn-resignation_uk_578cf7a5e4b069bdac5d1d94?

 

[ExRes]

So Angela Eagle drops out, sounds to me as though the male MPs have lined up to stab her in the back, Up the Workers, as long as they're male

 

[Trog]

The Eagle has landed?

 

[AlterEgo]

Useless milquetoast she was anyway; she cried on telly.

Owen Jones will never be PM with a Welsh accent.

Bring back Miliband D.

 

[EM2]

Owen Jones will never be PM with a Welsh accent.

Smith.
Owen Jones is a columnist.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Smith.
Owen Jones is a columnist.

Surely a Fifth Columnist?

 

[AlterEgo]

Smith.
Owen Jones is a columnist.

Heh, my bad.

Jones = Welsh.... Ahem.

Anyway, reminds me of this: https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/752085571791650816

 

[61653 HTAFC]

In a Corbyn versus Eagle contest, I'd have to vote Corbyn. Corbyn versus Smith however is another matter altogether. I've been impressed by his attempts to build bridges between the left and centre of the party. Just hope the Momentum attack-dogs realise there's no point in biting off the party's nose to spite its face.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

So Angela Eagle drops out, sounds to me as though the male MPs have lined up to stab her in the back, Up the Workers, as long as they're male

Nothing like that at all. I really don't know what makes you want to make up those kinds of theories. She pulled out after it became clear that Owen Smith had more nominations, and apparently because there's a desire for there to be one unity candidate. Personally, I'm not remotely surprised: After seeing both of them in a few tv interviews and youtube recordings, I got a very strong impression that Owen tends to interview and speak with more gravitas, and in a way that gives more of an impression of a potential prime minister (Yes, I know that's shallow, but it is also important if you're serious about wanting to form a Government). And his strongly pro-Europe stance is likely to have swayed a few people too. Indeed, I'd already decided my vote was heading Owen's way before Angela pulled out, partly for both of those reasons.

Having said that, I do rather wish she had remained in the contest though: Even though I probably wouldn't have voted for her, I'd have thought having more choice was a good thing.

 

[Busaholic]

Owen Jones will never be PM with a Welsh accent.

.

They said the same of Lloyd George.

 

[Harbornite]

Owen Jones will never be PM with a Welsh accent.
.

What a dumb statement.

 

[Busaholic]

In a Corbyn versus Eagle contest, I'd have to vote Corbyn. Corbyn versus Smith however is another matter altogether. I've been impressed by his attempts to build bridges between the left and centre of the party. Just hope the Momentum attack-dogs realise there's no point in biting off the party's nose to spite its face.

They won't. Owen Smith reminds me of John Smith (no relation, that I know of) and not just because of the glasses.

 

[Butts]

They won't. Owen Smith reminds me of John Smith (no relation, that I know of) and not just because of the glasses.

Notwithstanding the fact he is a lot slimmer than the late John Smith. His premature demise lead to the advancement of another Welsh contender for PM- one Neil Kinnock.

 

[DarloRich]

Notwithstanding the fact he is a lot slimmer than the late John Smith. His premature demise lead to the advancement of another Welsh contender for PM- one Neil Kinnock.

no it didn't - Tony Blair came after John Smith

 

[Busaholic]

no it didn't - Tony Blair came after John Smith

Quite- Kinnock's demise saw John Smith as his successor.