Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[AlterEgo]

63% of Labour voters voted for Remain.
64% of SNP voters voted for Remain.
Yet Corbyn is a liability and Sturgeon is a revolutionary.

Those aren't comparable.

The SNP are a single-issue opportunist/populist party whose main goal is independence. The reasons people vote for them are diverse, ranging from "I hate Tories" to "I want Scotland to be independent of the UK no matter what". Brexit actually accelerates the already inevitable breakup of the UK, which is why some SNP voters will have voted Leave.
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So 3.5 million Labour voters voted Leave, while 0.5 million SNP voters voted Leave and Leave won by 1.3 million votes.

Quite.

People who say they see Corbyn as a leader - really?

 

[EM2]

Those aren't comparable.

The SNP are a single-issue opportunist/populist party whose main goal is independence. The reasons people vote for them are diverse, ranging from "I hate Tories" to "I want Scotland to be independent of the UK no matter what". Brexit actually accelerates the already inevitable breakup of the UK, which is why some SNP voters will have voted Leave.

And the reasons that people vote Labour are diverse too, ranging from "I hate Tories" to "I want the UK to be a Socialist state".

 

[AlterEgo]

And the reasons that people vote Labour are diverse too, ranging from "I hate Tories" to "I want the UK to be a Socialist state".

My point is that Labour is not an opportunistic or populist single-issue party, and therefore its voter base should not be as "indisciplined" as the SNP's.

Corbyn has no experience of management and it shows. His peers think he's useless.

 

[EM2]

His peers think he's useless.

But their constituents probably don't. The Labour MPs rebelling against Corbyn were voted in *before* he became Leader. They were voted in as MPs by constituents who you have to assume hoped Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister.
Have all those MPs any idea who their voters want as leader now?

 

[northwichcat]

Corbyn has no experience of management and it shows. His peers think he's useless.

Pictures of Jeremy Corbyn's office have appeared in newspapers and it's pretty obvious he's running a pre-mid 90s paper based office where he's surrounded by huge piles of paper, ring binders and filing cabinets.

Perhaps an Owen Smith led party with Corbyn in a role like Shadow Transport Minister would best suit all parties. Some of the pro-Corbyn unions would still get to work directly with Corbyn but the leader would be someone more likely to attract non-Labour voters to vote for them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well much of the North West (including your area) voted leave. You get what you vote for.

Cheshire East

Leave.......113,163
Remain.....107,962
Turnout : 77.36%

In response to what you say above, my wife and I, together with all family members of our two neighbouring farmers, all voted "Remain", so we did not get what we voted for. Some people tend to think that Cheshire East is a vast area of wealth but I assure you that many areas of Cheshire East do not fall into that category.

I am glad to see that Trafford voted "Remain".

 

[AlterEgo]

But their constituents probably don't. The Labour MPs rebelling against Corbyn were voted in *before* he became Leader. They were voted in as MPs by constituents who you have to assume hoped Ed Miliband would be Prime Minister.

Have all those MPs any idea who their voters want as leader now?

They probably have no idea, which is why Labour is in such a mess. People "on the left" haven't a clue what "the left" stands for in any broader terms than "protect working people" (but wait, isn't that all of us, even the middle classes?)

Corbyn has some good ideas but the execution is woeful.

 

[northwichcat]

Cheshire East

Leave.......113,163
Remain.....107,962
Turnout : 77.36%

In response to what you say above, my wife and I, together with all family members of our two neighbouring farmers, all voted "Remain", so we did not get what we voted for. Some people tend to think that Cheshire East is a vast area of wealth but I assure you that many areas of Cheshire East do not fall into that category.

I am glad to see that Trafford voted "Remain".

Votes counted at Macclesfield Town Hall:
Remain: 54,912
Leave: 46,164

So 54.3% from the northern part of Cheshire East voted Remain.

 

[bnm]

For anyone think of voting in the Labour leadership election, and not already a party member or affiliated union member, you don't need to join the main Labour Party and pay £25 to vote.

An alternative option is to join the Unite union either as a full member, retired member or as a community member - from 50p a week.

Other cheaper options include joining affiliated organisations such as Disability Labour, LBGT Labour, BAME Labour (ethnic minorities), Christians on the Left, Jewish Labour Movement, Labour Students.

 

[miami]

Pictures of Jeremy Corbyn's office have appeared in newspapers and it's pretty obvious he's running a pre-mid 90s paper based office where he's surrounded by huge piles of paper, ring binders and filing cabinets.

I was amused by Cameron's tale of Ken Clarke's modernisation platform -- the lack of mobile (people called him on it) and the 9AM cigar.
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For anyone think of voting in the Labour leadership election, and not already a party member or affiliated union member, you don't need to join the main Labour Party and pay £25 to vote.

An alternative option is to join the Unite union either as a full member, retired member or as a community member - from 50p a week.

So rather than spending £25 to join, you can instead spend 50p a week? And that would be how much per year?

BAME Labour (ethnic minorities)

That sounds like a rather racist group

 

[asylumxl]

That sounds like a rather racist group

How do you come to that conclusion?

Racism is defined as:

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

The group in question is an activist group interested in encouraging and protecting diversity in Britain.

They welcome volunteers of all backgrounds and in fact have many volunteers who are not minorities.

So how particularly are they discriminating against you?

 

[bnm]

So rather than spending £25 to join, you can instead spend 50p a week? And that would be how much per year?

It's not £25 to join Labour. It's £25 to become a registered supporter eligible to vote in the leadership election.

Payment (full annual) to join Unite is not taken until 28th August 2016, but membership begins before then. One needs to register befor 8th August to be eligible to vote. Following the leadership election, membership can be cancelled and a pro rata refund obtained. So it definitely would be a cheaper way obtain the right to vote in the Leadership election.

 

[bnm]

So rather than spending £25 to join, you can instead spend 50p a week? And that would be how much per year?

It's not £25 to join Labour. It's £25 to become a registered supporter eligible to vote in the leadership election. I suggested Unite as an alternative, not necessarily cheaper, option. Far more benefits to being a Unite Community Member than a Labour Party Registered Supporter.

That said, payment (full annual) to join Unite as a Community Member is not taken until 28th August 2016, but membership begins before then. One needs to register before 8th August to be eligible to vote in the leadership election. Following the leadership election, membership can be cancelled and a pro rata refund obtained. So it could be a cheaper way to obtain the right to vote in the Leadership election.

Last time round I paid the £3 to be eligible to vote. This time I'm either joining Unite or Disability Labour.

 

[Gutfright]

I am glad to see that Trafford voted "Remain".

In the words of one Steven Patrick Morrissey, who himself hails from Trafford, "What difference does it make?"

Cheshire East voted hand in glove with the country as a whole to leave the EU. The response of remainers has been a mixture of panic and despair, declaring in their grief "Heaven knows I'm miserable now".

Some are resigned to leaving the EU, saying "I know it's over", while others still hold onto the hope that asking "Please, please, please let me get what I want" will change things.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Some are resigned to leaving the EU, saying "I know it's over

I think they're perhaps making a reference to the future of the country.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And the reasons that people vote Labour are diverse too, ranging from "I hate Tories" to "I want the UK to be a Socialist state".

That, of course, is when certain sections of those Labour inclined voters can actually bother to make the effort to vote in certain rock-solid Labour areas..

 

[HSTEd]

Isn't it (unfortunately) much more likely that Corbyn will win on the strength of the party-member vote and the vast majority of the MPs will just crawl back into line behind him? And just think who this would leave on his front bench and in his office pulling the strings.

They might, if not for the fact that the Corbynistas are already preparing to liquidate through deselection all MPs that are not loyal to him.
The CLP infrastructure has already been subverted by the hard left - this is the last throw of the dice as far as they are concerned.

The party shattering is almost inevitable now.
Much like the union.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the words of one Steven Patrick Morrissey, who himself hails from Trafford, "What difference does it make?"

Cheshire East voted hand in glove with the country as a whole to leave the EU. The response of remainers has been a mixture of panic and despair, declaring in their grief "Heaven knows I'm miserable now".

Some are resigned to leaving the EU, saying "I know it's over", while others still hold onto the hope that asking "Please, please, please let me get what I want" will change things.

Some of the "Remain" voters are made from far stronger stuff than you think and self-pity is most certainly not one of their attributes..

Perhaps I am a recreation of Captain Mainwaring in that manner.

 

[EM2]

Some are resigned to leaving the EU, saying "I know it's over", while others still hold onto the hope that asking "Please, please, please let me get what I want" will change things.

But with a right-wing Brexit Government, some might think that Barbarism Begins At Home and to be honest, as with every promise made by politicians, Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before because That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore, but there is always the hope that There Is A Light That Never Goes Out.

 

[Senex]

They might, if not for the fact that the Corbynistas are already preparing to liquidate through deselection all MPs that are not loyal to him.
The CLP infrastructure has already been subverted by the hard left - this is the last throw of the dice as far as they are concerned.

The party shattering is almost inevitable now.
Much like the union.

So classic hard left infiltration.

But I can't help wondering whether the party shattering is indeed almost inevitable or whether when the crunch comes they'll bottle it and all fall in behind Corbyn, whatever the consequences for electability.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They probably have no idea, which is why Labour is in such a mess. People "on the left" haven't a clue what "the left" stands for in any broader terms than "protect working people" (but wait, isn't that all of us, even the middle classes?)

Corbyn has some good ideas but the execution is woeful.

Kind "Uncle Joe" Stalin would most probably have "some good ideas" to deal with any such dissent in the proletariat. The difference being is that his "executions" would not be regarded as woeful by those who adhered to the party line in case their name appeared on "the list"...
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So classic hard left infiltration.

Which I am sure has not been unnoticed by those in the SIS building at Vauxhall Cross.

 

[Gutfright]

But with a right-wing Brexit Government, some might think that Barbarism Begins At Home and to be honest, as with every promise made by politicians, Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before because That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore, but there is always the hope that There Is A Light That Never Goes Out.

Interesting that Farage and BoJo have seemingly admitted "I Started Something I Couldn't Finish".

 

[Harbornite]

Kind "Uncle Joe" Stalin would most probably have "some good ideas" to deal with any such dissent in the proletariat. The difference being is that his "executions" would not be regarded as woeful by those who adhered to the party line in case their name appeared on "the list"...
.

Indeed, perhaps Commissar Corblin will authorise the snuffing out of Angela Eagle and Hillary Benn with ice picks.

 

[Gutfright]

Indeed, perhaps Commissar Corblin will authorise the snuffing out of Angela Eagle and Hillary Benn with ice picks.

Oh please. That's obviously nonsense. Let's try to retain a shred of realism here.

He'll use Polonium instead. Ice picks are sooo last century.

 

[Harbornite]

Oh please. That's obviously nonsense. Let's try to retain a shred of realism here.

He'll use Polonium instead. Ice picks are sooo last century.

If he's creative then he'll deploy it via umbrella-propelled dart. Very subtle!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

They might, if not for the fact that the Corbynistas are already preparing to liquidate through deselection all MPs that are not loyal to him.
The CLP infrastructure has already been subverted by the hard left - this is the last throw of the dice as far as they are concerned.

That really is quite a strong statement. I would imagine that a number of MPs might face some stormy meetings with their constituency parties (and quite right too) but, given the very bureaucratic nature of the Labour Party, anyone who has joined recently can't just take over a CLP...the GC is elected by branches and so new members will not have had much of an opportunity to effect the outlook of the CLP in the last year. I think that you are forgetting that it was the existing members (and supporters) who voted Jeremy Corbyn in, rather than the other three candidates who were very bland.
Of course, if you have evidence otherwise from your own experiences in the Labour Party, I'd be interested to hear them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Imagine a group of people standing outside a building where Momentum are gathered in a meeting and shouting "We know what you're doing"

Can those in official circles dust off the secret plans they used to combat the "Militant Tendency" when Derek Hatton saw himself as the best-dressed fifth columnist there ever has been....

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Imagine a group of people standing outside a building where Momentum are gathered in a meeting and shouting "We know what you're doing"

Can those in official circles dust off the secret plans they used to combat the "Militant Tendency" when Derek Hatton saw himself as the best-dressed fifth columnist there ever has been....

Given that many people are now equating Momentum with Militant, I wonder if all those in Momentum are the offspring of the Militant Tendency...after all, age would be correct, born in the 1980's....of course, it could be for a completely different reason, such as a group of like-minded people who are concerned with the rapid increase in inequality, or something like that!

 

[HSTEd]

That really is quite a strong statement. I would imagine that a number of MPs might face some stormy meetings with their constituency parties (and quite right too) but, given the very bureaucratic nature of the Labour Party, anyone who has joined recently can't just take over a CLP...the GC is elected by branches and so new members will not have had much of an opportunity to effect the outlook of the CLP in the last year. I think that you are forgetting that it was the existing members (and supporters) who voted Jeremy Corbyn in, rather than the other three candidates who were very bland.
Of course, if you have evidence otherwise from your own experiences in the Labour Party, I'd be interested to hear them.

Unfortunately a lot of unhappy old communists who were laying dormant but were still members of the party have crept out of the woodwork - those who survived the destruction of the Militant infiltrator organisation.

So the entryists are not technically true entryists in this case but more of a sleeper agent fifth column.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Unfortunately a lot of unhappy old communists who were laying dormant but were still members of the party have crept out of the woodwork - those who survived the destruction of the Militant infiltrator organisation.

So the entryists are not technically true entryists in this case but more of a sleeper agent fifth column.

Wonderful! That's really made me smile!