Jeremy Corbyn & Tom Watson elected leader and deputy leader of the Labour Party

[chris11256]

Murmors on BBC news that the £3 supporters rate will be going up to £25. Plus from Sky News only people who registered before February will be able to vote.

 

[miami]

Murmors on BBC news that the £3 supporters rate will be going up to £25.

Brexit powered inflation?

 

[St Rollox]

Well done Jeremy.
He's hanging on in there.

 

[Busaholic]

Murmors on BBC news that the £3 supporters rate will be going up to £25. Plus from Sky News only people who registered before February will be able to vote.

I'll hang on to my £3 in that case: don't want it wasted on the Corbyn Cult.

 

[HSTEd]

Well that is the end of the Labour party as a significant political force.
Piling up huge numbers of votes in ultra safe seats will not win an election.
THis is not proportional representation.
They will haemmorhage votes over most of their seats.

Maybe a split is the best thing they can hope for now.
If all the "no confidence" people left they would be the official opposition which should help them with initial funding issues of new parties.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps the term Momentum should be now given as the new name for what once was known as the Labour Party.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well done Jeremy.
He's hanging on in there.

"Hanging on" is pretty accurate.

 

[Senex]

If all the "no confidence" people left they would be the official opposition which should help them with initial funding issues of new parties.

Isn't it (unfortunately) much more likely that Corbyn will win on the strength of the party-member vote and the vast majority of the MPs will just crawl back into line behind him? And just think who this would leave on his front bench and in his office pulling the strings.

 

[DarloRich]

I believe we as a party are in a very dangerous position now. I am fairly certain Corbyn will win re election which makes us completely un electable.

Whilst that might suit the Momentum types who seem to want a party of reduced size, with any critical MPs expunged and members adhering slavishly to a cultish view of the dear leader coupled with a dogmatic ideology spouting nice comradely messages the rest of the country don't want that and will reject that position outright. They seem unable to grasp this concept and seem to, genuinely, think that there is an untapped pool of people who will flock to Corbyn and help him to power. The idea would be laughable if they weren't so deluded. They attend rallies and cheer Corbyn, missing the fact he fails to interact with the media or does not try to change the views of people who are not his fawning acolytes. How can we win power based on this lack interest in the wider electorate?

While Corbyn may (although i am not so sure - see UKIP success in NE) do well in the old industrial areas and hold up our support there in the rest of the country we will lose. Badly. Where I live now people will not vote for him and without winning middle class, middle England we can not take power. There are neither enough Labour members nor seats in our core areas to take power.

While the Momentum typos might be happy with constant shouting from the sidelines things wont get better for many people in this country unless we hold power. We cant change things for the majority and create a more socially just and inclusive society from a position of decreasing political relevance and electoral success. That crucial fact seems to be lost on them!

 

[lejog]

I believe we as a party are in a very dangerous position now. I am fairly certain Corbyn will win re election which makes us completely un electable.

Especially as I read twice in the Guardian today, May is parking her tanks firmly on Labour's lawn in many policy areas. I just heard Vince Cable being interviewed on May's seeming adoption of his business policies.

Here's an interesting quiz on "Who said it, Theresa May or Ed Miliband?". I scored a pathetic 5/12.

While Corbyn may (although i am not so sure - see UKIP success in NE) do well in the old industrial areas and hold up our support there in the rest of the country we will lose. Badly. Where I live now people will not vote for him and without winning middle class, middle England we can not take power. There are neither enough Labour members nor seats in our core areas to take power.

Oddly it seems to me that Corbyn's supporters are overwhelming middle class, however that does not mean that the majority of leftish leaning middle class people would consider voting for him.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems to be the case that the rock-solid Labour voting areas of the North-West are now very worried about the large amounts of EU monies directed at this region will cease when Britain finally leaves the EU.

Joe Anderson in Liverpool has already voiced his fears over this matter, so it will be interesting to see how the Labour Party addresses such fears.

 

[Harbornite]

I believe we as a party are in a very dangerous position now. I am fairly certain Corbyn will win re election which makes us completely un electable.

Whilst that might suit the Momentum types who seem to want a party of reduced size, with any critical MPs expunged and members adhering slavishly to a cultish view of the dear leader coupled with a dogmatic ideology spouting nice comradely messages the rest of the country don't want that and will reject that position outright. They seem unable to grasp this concept and seem to, genuinely, think that there is an untapped pool of people who will flock to Corbyn and help him to power. The idea would be laughable if they weren't so deluded. They attend rallies and cheer Corbyn, missing the fact he fails to interact with the media or does not try to change the views of people who are not his fawning acolytes. How can we win power based on this lack interest in the wider electorate?

While Corbyn may (although i am not so sure - see UKIP success in NE) do well in the old industrial areas and hold up our support there in the rest of the country we will lose. Badly. Where I live now people will not vote for him and without winning middle class, middle England we can not take power. There are neither enough Labour members nor seats in our core areas to take power.

While the Momentum typos might be happy with constant shouting from the sidelines things wont get better for many people in this country unless we hold power. We cant change things for the majority and create a more socially just and inclusive society from a position of decreasing political relevance and electoral success. That crucial fact seems to be lost on them!

A split is necessary. Commissar Corbyn and his Politburo should sod off to North Korea, where they can appreciate full "socialism" in all its red glory. At least the trains are state-owned over there.

 

[Butts]

A split is necessary. Commissar Corbyn and his Politburo should sod off to North Korea, where they can appreciate full "socialism" in all its red glory. At least the trains are state-owned over there.

Perhaps a more moderate "Trotsky Solution" is required

I bet the MP's who signed his nomination papers all those months ago never envisaged what would transpire.

 

[Harbornite]

Perhaps a more moderate "Trotsky Solution" is required

I bet the MP's who signed his nomination papers all those months ago never envisaged what would transpire.

Indeed, methinks that many of the photos that appear on twitter, the Guardian and the Morning star will be photoshopped in months to come. Adios Benn et al, you've all got a date planned with an ice pick!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Especially as I read twice in the Guardian today, May is parking her tanks firmly on Labour's lawn in many policy areas. I just heard Vince Cable being interviewed on May's seeming adoption of his business policies.

Here's an interesting quiz on "Who said it, Theresa May or Ed Miliband?". I scored a pathetic 5/12.

I got 11/12.

 

[PHILIPE]

Movements such as Momentum (? the new Militant Tendency) are little more than an ideology group which appeals to younger people, Charlotte Church types for example, who can only "bash" the opposition and are divorced from reality when it comes to any serious policy making. This type of ideology kept the Labour Party out of office for 18 years and landed us with Margaret Thatcher (privatise everything). They come out as a group advocating more fairer policies, much of the intent with which I agree with, but can't explain how it can be done.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oddly it seems to me that Corbyn's supporters are overwhelming middle class, however that does not mean that the majority of leftish leaning middle class people would consider voting for him.

Why is it that I find it difficult to come to terms with the thought that the miscreant who threw the brick through the window of the constituency office of Angela Eagle came from that Corbyn support-base to which you state above?

 

[backontrack]

6/12 for me on the Miliband/May quiz...

 

[Domh245]

Oddly it seems to me that Corbyn's supporters are overwhelming middle class, however that does not mean that the majority of leftish leaning middle class people would consider voting for him.

To quote Johnuk123 (I think) I suspect that most of Corbyns supporters tend to be champagne socialists - people who live in urban areas and students. As you say however, that won't win elections, indeed you need to appeal to the centrist swing voters, which Corbyn definitely doesn't.

As an aside, it'd be interesting to see what happens in the event of a split as to the use of the name "Labour Party" - will it be kept by Corbyn, or will it be taken by the larger fraction of the party (who will become HM's opposition as the second largest party). Whoever keeps it will find it beneficial in constituencies like ainsworth74's where people would vote in anyone with a red rosette and "Labour" next to the box

 

[miami]

Movements such as Momentum (? the new Militant Tendency) are little more than an ideology group which appeals to younger people, Charlotte Church types for example

Church is 30, hardly "younger people".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems to be the case that the rock-solid Labour voting areas of the North-West are now very worried about the large amounts of EU monies directed at this region will cease when Britain finally leaves the EU.

Well much of the North West (including your area) voted leave. You get what you vote for.

(Happy to say Trafford voted remain -- albeit with a leave MP, I'm not sure why Brady is a leaver)

A nice "this violence must stop" leader by Corbyn in the Mirror would certainly help (and make no mistake, the threats on social media are violence) with distancing him from the brick throwing

 

[AlterEgo]

As an aside, it'd be interesting to see what happens in the event of a split as to the use of the name "Labour Party" - will it be kept by Corbyn, or will it be taken by the larger fraction of the party (who will become HM's opposition as the second largest party). Whoever keeps it will find it beneficial in constituencies like ainsworth74's where people would vote in anyone with a red rosette and "Labour" next to the box

You would probably find the splitting party would still retain the "Labour" name, but call itself Democratic Labour, or Progressive Labour or something like that.

The "real" Labour party would end up being called, at least colloquially, the Old Labour Party or the Official Labour Party instead.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

To quote Johnuk123 (I think) I suspect that most of Corbyns supporters tend to be champagne socialists - people who live in urban areas and students.

Would love to see your evidence of this. As someone who lives in a very rural area I would point out that everyone I know in the Labour Party (and its supporters) supports Jeremy Corbyn, they come from all walks of life, young, old, self-employed, working, male, female etc etc. Despite what some posters also like to think, none of them are 'thugs' either...goodness me, they might even be the Health Professionals who care for you if you are ever in need of the NHS. To see some of the same tired old cliches posted on this forum that have been resurrected from old copies of the Daily Mail is sad but not surprising.

 

[northwichcat]

Normal meetings of local Labour groups have been suspended until the leadership election

A special paper on the leadership contest, passed to HuffPost UK, said the move to suspend local party meetings was to prevent further intimidation and violence of MPs and members.

“All normal party meetings at CLPs [Constituency Labour Parties] and branch level shall be suspended until the completion of the leadership election,” it ruled.

Only meetings for supporting leadership nominations, campaign planning meetings for by-elections or elected mayors, plus others agreed by the general secretary, will be allowed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...-committe-ruling_uk_5785f8d8e4b08078d6e76d80?

 

[AlterEgo]

What a shambles. Glad I'm not a Labour member. I feel sorry for the normal ones in that party.

 

[Gutfright]

What a shambles. Glad I'm not a Labour member. I feel sorry for the normal ones in that party.

My preferences in the last election were 1) Corbyn 2) Burnham 3) Cooper 4) Kendall.

I'll vote #JezWeCan again, unless another candidate steps forward who can offer something distinctly different from Tory-lite policies.

Common complaints you hear from the man on the street are that the mainstream parties are all the same, that you can't fit a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories.

There are a heck of a lot of people out there who don't feel like the status quo is working for them. The Labour Party should not leave those people behind.

 

[AlterEgo]

My preferences in the last election were 1) Corbyn 2) Burnham 3) Cooper 4) Kendall.

I'll vote #JezWeCan again, unless another candidate steps forward who can offer something distinctly different from Tory-lite policies.

Common complaints you hear from the man on the street are that the mainstream parties are all the same, that you can't fit a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories.

There are a heck of a lot of people out there who don't feel like the status quo is working for them. The Labour Party should not leave those people behind.

I hope you didn't take my comment to mean that Corbyn supporters were the "not normal" ones.

What I mean is the internal strife within Labour - mostly driven by a small number of "interested stakeholders" is overshadowing the hard work done on the ground by their MPs at a constituency level.

Corbyn is a good man, a proud republican and a friend of the poor. That said, he is a very weak leader who doesn't have the support of his peers. He is completely unsuitable to be Prime Minister as he lacks credibility and gravitas. He failed to mobilise Labour voters in the EU referendum and this should be warning enough to anyone thinking he can win a General Election.

Labour has faced an existential crisis for quite some time. Although Thatcher was, frankly, a witch, one of the upshots of her tenure is that the traditional working class was reduced in size dramatically. There is no such thing as "working class" today. We have a completely different and much more fractured class system, and the politics of the left and right seem to be totally interchangeable at times.

Labour will split and wither on the vine.

It's a good time to be a Liberal Democrat. (But I am not one!)

 

[EM2]

To quote Johnuk123 (I think) I suspect that most of Corbyns supporters tend to be champagne socialists - people who live in urban areas and students.

1. Why does living in an urban area or being a student make you a 'champagne socialist'?
2. Why is being able to afford champagne, and campaigning for other people to be able to afford it a bad thing?

 

[northwichcat]

Common complaints you hear from the man on the street are that the mainstream parties are all the same, that you can't fit a cigarette paper between Labour and the Tories.

There are a heck of a lot of people out there who don't feel like the status quo is working for them. The Labour Party should not leave those people behind.

There's a difference between having a political party who considers the views of both centralist and left wing members and one which puts the left wingers first and labels centralist members as red Tories.

Labour was estimated to have picked up around 1.4 million voters from the Lib Dems at the last general election in England, so were able to increase their total vote share by around 0.7 million despite losing a large amount of support in Scotland. If Labour want to retain those 1.4 million voters (not supporters) they need to appeal to the less left-wing voters.

 

[EM2]

He failed to mobilise Labour voters in the EU referendum and this should be warning enough to anyone thinking he can win a General Election.

63% of Labour voters voted for Remain.
64% of SNP voters voted for Remain.
Yet Corbyn is a liability and Sturgeon is a revolutionary.

 

[northwichcat]

63% of Labour voters voted for Remain.
64% of SNP voters voted for Remain.
Yet Corbyn is a liability and Sturgeon is a revolutionary.

So 3.5 million Labour voters voted Leave, while 0.5 million SNP voters voted Leave and Leave won by 1.3 million votes.

 

[miami]

63% of Labour voters voted for Remain.
64% of SNP voters voted for Remain.
Yet Corbyn is a liability and Sturgeon is a revolutionary.

Indeed, the group of people that voted leave were the Tory Party. It was Cameron who failed to appeal to his voters, not Sturgeon, Corbyn or Farron. I suspect that the almost universal support for remain from the unions was a lot to do with having Corbyn as Labour leader.