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Class 43 Valenta engine replacement: Where and when?

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ATPVV

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Hi all,

Does anyone know what date and where the 43's had their Valenta power units taken out and those MTU things put in?
Would like to know loco by loco or operator by operator if poss.

Cheers,

Adam
 
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zn1

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The valentas couldnt last forever, much as they are a good piece of engineering. in the harsh environment of railway operating they are worked to death in between overhauls.
you can only strip and rebuild an engine so many times before they are scrap...The MTU was and is the most cost effective replacement, much as one misses their scream, to keep a fleet in traffic require solutions. The MTU does the job...they wont be going to the scrapyard anytime soon...
 

D365

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In preservation though, and on future railtours, they won't be operated anywhere near as intensely.
 

dgl

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Well the EMT examples still have valenta engines, the VP185.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk
 

Harbornite

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Well the EMT examples still have valenta engines, the VP185.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

True, but the comment was referring to the previous generation (the old Paxman Valenta).
 

fgwrich

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The valentas couldnt last forever, much as they are a good piece of engineering. in the harsh environment of railway operating they are worked to death in between overhauls.
you can only strip and rebuild an engine so many times before they are scrap...The MTU was and is the most cost effective replacement, much as one misses their scream, to keep a fleet in traffic require solutions. The MTU does the job...they wont be going to the scrapyard anytime soon...

Exactly. As good as the Valentas were, they were first and foremost a Marine engine designed to run at high speeds for long periods of time. Not for the harsh reality of a stop run stop run stop diagram of a HST - the worst being an Oxford Fast, with stops at Slough, Reading, Didcot, Oxford. It served its purpose and served it well, but by the time of 2004/2006 they were tired, with most engines covered in oil and coolant leaks - trust me, a work visit to a hot, oil and coolant covered Valenta engine wasn't fun. The MTUs are cleaner, and far more efficient. The only downfall during the rebuild program was that the HST sets weren't expected to be running on into the 2020/2030s - it was done to prolong the life of a HST set for another 10 years at least.

And I personally like the growl of an MTU! Just a pity the Turbos haven't started screaming as much yet as one of DBs 218s!

However, we are unlikely to see an MTU power car 'backdated' for some time, not least as the MTU program gave the HST Power cars New Wiring, New Radiator and cooler groups and new engine management control.
 

cjmillsnun

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Well the EMT examples still have valenta engines, the VP185.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

The VP185 is not a Valenta. It's not even a development. It is however a Paxman design.
 

43096

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And I personally like the growl of an MTU! Just a pity the Turbos haven't started screaming as much yet as one of DBs 218s!

Which 218s, though? Those with original 12V956 TB11 engines that do scream or the bent junk with MTU 4000s? Interesting to note that DB have reverted some locos back to TB11s from 4000s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hi all,

Does anyone know what date and where the 43's had their Valenta power units taken out and those MTU things put in?
Would like to know loco by loco or operator by operator if poss.

Cheers,

Adam
The 125 Group published the details of all HST power car re-engining schemes including MB190 and VP185 in their magazine, issues 97-99. If you go to 125group.org.uk and go to contacts they'll give you details as to how to get a copy.
 

Murph

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Exactly. As good as the Valentas were, they were first and foremost a Marine engine designed to run at high speeds for long periods of time.

Some marine applications are very much not constant RPMs for long periods. The Royal Navy's Deltics and Valentas used for propulsion could expect high variations in throttle at times. Even in diesel-electric marine applications (such as the 12RP200 backup engines in the Vanguard submarines), significant variations in load could be expected over short periods of time.

In some cases of naval applications, they were subjected to more extreme torture through time limited "sprint" ratings significantly above their rating in locomotive applications. In heavy seas, there's also a different form of torture for the engines through continuous pulsing of load on the propellers, as the vessel pitches.

The MTU 16V4000 is also used for marine applications, just the same as the Paxmans. At the core of it, there's really no such thing as a "marine diesel" or "locomotive diesel", as far as the engines themselves are concerned. It is all down to how the basic engine designs are adapted and integrated for each type of application, and they can all be found in power generation, marine propulsion, or locomotives.
 

Highland37

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The above post makes some good points.

If we look at the SD40-2 and plenty of other locomotives, they haven't required a new power unit like others. Clearly some engines are better than others. Such is life.

I was interested to hear of the difference between the Mirrlees units in the Class 60 which don't seem the best relative to the same units in some vessels which must have much higher hours on them. Right enough, they have an onboard engineer but that's a safety critical feature not needed in rail.
 

Murph

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Yeah, some engines are better than others, and some engine installations / integrations are better than others. To be successful and reliable, both of those elements need to be good. Do a bad job of installing an excellent engine, or an excellent job of installing a bad engine, and it will be unreliable.

As far as an on board engineer goes, some of them have an entire engineering department, with enough skills to essentially completely rebuild these engines at sea. Replacing heads, pistons, rods, etc is no big deal for a good ship's engineer (beyond inconvenience).

The main advantage for reliability in the marine environment is an endless supply of cold cooling water, as long as you keep the sea chests free of marine growths and creatures (e.g. you can get a colony of mussels living and growing in the intake). For those not familiar with marine diesels, they typically have a normal closed loop cooling system filled with the usual engine coolant mix, but have heat exchangers in place of radiators, running seawater through the other side of the heat exchangers. As long as the systems are properly designed, maintained, and the pumps keep running; they have a much easier setup for thermal regulation.

Cooling is so plentiful that it's not unusual for smaller marine diesels to have a cooled exhaust system, limiting the very hot pipes to only immediately adjacent to the heads.
 
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