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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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Class377/5

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Better to start small-scale rather than mass introduction so that all of these issues can be ironed out.

Out of interest, was there a 700 simulator at Three Bridges to start pre-familiarisation prior to the 700s coming over to the UK?

That's why theres been a soft launch. No failures today (so fa) but door fault.

700 sim I believed about same time as the first 700s. Was used on the regular driver training not the advanced group who went to Germany to learn.
 
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jon0844

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It would be nice if these can start running on weekends by the end of the month, as I'd like to take the family (and friends visiting from abroad) to Brighton, or back, on one.
 

Class377/5

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Thanks.

I'm guessing the support team don't work weekends - hence no weekend working for the forseeable future...?

Support teams already work 24/7.

It would be nice if these can start running on weekends by the end of the month, as I'd like to take the family (and friends visiting from abroad) to Brighton, or back, on one.

I think they may be but can't confirm they will be yet.
 

swt_passenger

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I doubt we will see large scale introduction of the 700s until GoVia either break the spirits of their staff or make concessions for them.

Is there a dispute with Thameslink drivers then? I thought the train crew agreements still reflected 3 completely separate TOCs; and Thameslink were already running 12 car trains routinely, and had done since the various 377 variants were introduced on their route?
 

JonathanH

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Is there a dispute with Thameslink drivers then? I thought the train crew agreements still reflected 3 completely separate TOCs; and Thameslink were already running 12 car trains routinely, and had done since the various 377 variants were introduced on their route?

ISTR some comment about a possible issue with the need to recruit additional dispatch staff at certain locations?
 
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Does anyone know what services will be operated by 700s tomorrow?

Also can i ask am i correct in thinking that 700s have SDO fitted? As the southbound platform (platform 2) at Balcombe can only hold 8 coaches.
 

W230

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Have all TL and GN staff that will be working these trains (drivers and if there is still any - guards - now had all their training on them? Are all the fitters provided by Siemens?
Nowhere near. My depot (TL side) is training drivers in to next year so I should think the others have plenty still waiting.

I understand on the GN side traction conversion courses havent even started yet as the people who will be doing the training are currently snowed under with testing the ETCS system on the Hertford loop...
 

swt_passenger

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There's probably a risk in training too many people too soon, they'd not get the chance to consolidate the training and it would need refreshing.
 

Tim R-T-C

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I'm down in London next Monday, is there any rhythm to the 700 deployments or are they being tested on random workings?
 

Class377/5

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I'm down in London next Monday, is there any rhythm to the 700 deployments or are they being tested on random workings?

At the risk of being attacked again, Working have been posted on here. Keep your eyes out for next week's.
 

po8crg

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I will be taking a TL train from STP to BTN in late September - are we at a point where I could work out my chances of getting a 700 yet, or is that more of a "wait and see" at this stage?
 

asylumxl

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I will be taking a TL train from STP to BTN in late September - are we at a point where I could work out my chances of getting a 700 yet, or is that more of a "wait and see" at this stage?
One would hope more would have come in to service by then, but who knows.
 

Class377/5

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I will be taking a TL train from STP to BTN in late September - are we at a point where I could work out my chances of getting a 700 yet, or is that more of a "wait and see" at this stage?

If all goes well there should be nearly double digits 700s in service. Just to note 10x 700/1 is bigger fleet than the 387/2 fleet.

There was a couple of 700 events today...

700105 arrived from Germany

700105 being delivered by Mackenzie Soley, on Flickr

700114 entered service (the 4th with 107/108/109)

700114 in service by Mackenzie Soley, on Flickr

And 700002 became the first 700/0 in Tilgate Sidings (8 car length)

700002 in Tilgate by Mackenzie Soley, on Flickr

I need to do a update on delivery dates and dates in service which I hope to do over the weekend.
 
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Bald Rick

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700114 entered service (the 4th with 107/108/109)

I caught that this morning at Croydon.

First impressions - universally excellent. Quiet, smooth, good acceleration, PIS fantastic, loads of space and the seats were comfortable (yes really).
 

Class377/5

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I caught that this morning at Croydon.

First impressions - universally excellent. Quiet, smooth, good acceleration, PIS fantastic, loads of space and the seats were comfortable (yes really).

The 700s are my commute into work this week. Its interesting to note that the loadings on the 700s seem to being more balanced over the last few days so I wonder is the PIS actually already making a difference to the public?
 

jon0844

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I'm still waiting for someone to get everyone to move up/down to make some carriages amber or red!
 

physics34

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I caught that this morning at Croydon.

First impressions - universally excellent. Quiet, smooth, good acceleration, PIS fantastic, loads of space and the seats were comfortable (yes really).

But are they comfortable for 90 mins with someone sitting next to you?
 

class387

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May I ask what are the chances of the 700 running tomorrow? Is it possible to check beforehand?
 

Bald Rick

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The 700s are my commute into work this week. Its interesting to note that the loadings on the 700s seem to being more balanced over the last few days so I wonder is the PIS actually already making a difference to the public?

I wonder if regular users have begun to realise it's 12 coaches and spread themselves along the platform more. Also it's been dry this week, wet last week, so people are more likely to move out of shelter when waiting. Having said that, I was one of about 10 people walking through the train from near the back to near the front. Although I suspect I was the only one checking fittings etc!
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But are they comfortable for 90 mins with someone sitting next to you?

Well they will be no less comfortable than a 387 for 90 mins with someone sat next to me. And certainly more comfortable than a 319 in the same situation. And a lot more comfortable than an Easyjet A320 for 60 minutes.
 

physics34

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I wonder if regular users have begun to realise it's 12 coaches and spread themselves along the platform more. Also it's been dry this week, wet last week, so people are more likely to move out of shelter when waiting. Having said that, I was one of about 10 people walking through the train from near the back to near the front. Although I suspect I was the only one checking fittings etc!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Well they will be no less comfortable than a 387 for 90 mins with someone sat next to me. And certainly more comfortable than a 319 in the same situation. And a lot more comfortable than an Easyjet A320 for 60 minutes.

700 has 3 inches less room either side of the seat and no armrest, so your shoulders will be touching your neighbour on one side and the coach side on the other.Agree 319 seats are an awful posture but at least they are soft.
 
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asylumxl

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700 has 3 inches less room either side of the seat and no armrest, so your shoulders will be touching your neighbour on one side and the coach side on the other.Agree 319 seats are an awful posture but at least they are soft.
The 319 seats were good if you slouch and it's quiet. Easy enough to fall asleep on after a long day at work.
 

JonathanH

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The 0547 Brighton to London Bridge has been amber after Haywards Heath all week.

I think there were some light green carriages on departure from Redhill on Monday. I'll have to have another ride to see what the full colour distribution is.
 

LBSCR Times

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I caught that this morning at Croydon.

First impressions - universally excellent. Quiet, smooth, good acceleration, PIS fantastic, loads of space and the seats were comfortable (yes really).

My opinion on two days travelling on them is similar but.... (And there's always a but!)
The first day I sat next to the window. Wrong move!
The ducting along the bottom makes it difficult for a long-legged person to sit straight.
The second day I sat next to the aisle. Same level of comfort as a 387 and if not in an airline style seat, actually appears to be more spacious!
I'm waiting for an opportunity to go through the Core, maybe next week...?
Overall, so far, as good as any modern suburban stock.
 

samuelmorris

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Had a go on 700114 today, twice in fact - once deliberately and again by pure coincidence that it was operating the service I needed. In true GTR form, both services were around 20 minutes late.

Thoughts -

The sound level and general feeling of refinement is excellent, on par with Desiro UK stock. Sitting in a trailer was very quiet indeed, at least to the standard of an Electrostar trailer which given the open gangways is quite impressive at speed. Sitting directly above a motor bogie for my second trip, the noise level is very reasonable, possibly not as quiet as a Desiro UK in that regard, but very reasonable and much quieter than an Electrostar. Acceleration was in parts fairly brisk even on DC at low speeds and smooth throughout, ride quality was smooth but damn, I'd forgotten how bad the track is on the Brighton mainline!

The A/C clearly works well, it was arguably a little too aggressive on my train, it did get a bit chilly at times!

Seats firm as anticipated, but they are somehow different to those on late Electrostars. I can't quite pinpoint what the difference is, but they don't feel like the same seat at all. Both are firm but the Electrostar seats feel like a soft coating on a hard cushion, the 700 seats feel more like a hard coating on a softer cushion. The intrusion into the foot space was not as much of an issue as anticipated, it's less difficult but still very uncomfortable to lean your elbow on the windowsill, whereas this is arguably a lot easier on 377s and 387s.
Neither 30 minutes on a 700 on two occasions nor 60 minutes on a 387/1 caused me any discomfort in my bottom or back, and I do suffer from back pains, so I think the complaints about the seating are a little over the top. Yes the soft seats on, e.g. 377/1s are a lot more comfortable, but the 'ironing board' seating on modern units does not seem to bother me as much as is regularly suggested that it would.

Ambience in the unit is clinical but clean (at least for now), nothing realy looks out of place / cluttered and with the trains being as quiet as they were today, they feel extremely spacious. The perks of travelling on a 12-car unit off-peak that's only running half the route I suppose.
The 'new train smell' is not exactly unpleasant but quite strong nonetheless - I wonder how long that will last :D
Door chimes are possibly a bit too loud for my liking given how many of them there are, but the buttons are instantly responsive without needing to press excessively hard as per 377/6 etc. and to my surprise, despite pocket doors being used instead of sliding doors, they deal with trains passing at speed far better than Electrostars with plug doors. Full marks here, as long as they prove reliable long-term this is an example of a door system that completely negates the need for plug doors and operates at double the speed.
PIS - arguably the weakest part of the system, its design is fairly well thought out, the audio quality is excellent, the text is quite clear to read as it's very high resolution, the scrolling rate is correct, the LUL information is useful when relevant, the loading indicators and toilet availability indicators seemed to work well enough, however there are some clear issues with this system, as one might expect for the first of its kind:
1. the system was rebooted 3 times prior to the train leaving London Bridge - not sure if this is normal behaviour, but it's a bit messy, you're reading the info then the screens go blank
2. the displays are unstable - on both legs of my journey in different carriages, some screens intermittently went blank when others did not (only the right portion in some cases, both in others), and one spent a minute or so cycling through each screen several times a second making it impossible to read any of it. The software for these is clearly still quite buggy and while fortunately each screen seems to operate independently of each other (as you can observe them all changing at different times), not sure why that should be the case and I suspect it will lead to a 'de rigeur' of at least two or three displays not behaving properly on each 700 in perpetuity unless they can improve the stability of them.
3. the LUL information needs not be displayed once outside the London area when travelling away from London in my opinion.
4. when the 'the next station is' message comes up, surely the second line could be used to continue to reel off the next stations, rather than you having to wait until the next station to be reminded of the calling pattern?
5. The loading and toilet indicators were only used after the train had departed the terminus. While that may be less an issue when the terminus is Bedford or Brighton, for services starting at busier stations I would argue that should be ready a lot sooner - giving people the opportunity to relocate before arriving at further stations that exacerbate the situation.

The general 'feel' of the train is unquestionably a metro service. The 377/6 I returned on felt far more cosy by comparison and the 377/1 earlier in the day positively luxurious, but that is part of the point. The time it took to disembark from the 700 would have been a fraction of what it was on the 377s with me seated behind my full-size table. I totally get why they've laid them out this way and I agree with it. On a quiet off-peak service the sheer size of the train was enough to lead to ample seating available despite the sparse layout, yet there is vast amounts of standing space ready for the peak time crush.
It's an odd conflict to be on a metro-style train speeding along quietly and smoothly at 80+ mph with hardly anyone else around, but in general I think they've done a pretty good job with the specification here (the WiFi and power socket grumbles excluding). The train has a professional finish and appears well-suited to the job. It will be unfortunate to lose the cosy style of the 387s during the hour long slog negotiating the diversion via Crystal Palace, but I won't be complaining too much if a 700 turns up in place of one. I honestly look forward to travelling on one again.
 
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