Potential Rolling Stock for GO-OP! Taunton-Nuneaton Service

[superalbs]

Looks like they want to use the Vivarail Class 230 until 2019 between Taunton and Swindon, then CAF Civity UK units from 2019 onwards on Taunton-Nuneaton.

Source: http://www.somerset.coop/2016/06/going-places-co-operative-transport.html

"Our events for Co-ops Fortnight will conclude tomorrow with 'Going Place' in Taunton. We will have two presentations - one from Alex Lawrie on GO-OP, the new co-operative rail operator proposing a new route form Taunton to Nuneaton (an ambitious plan, that still requires the consent of the Office of Rail and Road); and one from Mark Hodgson of Co-Cars who will bring their hi-tech car club operation to Taunton soon.
These two projects show how grassroots activism in communities can meet real needs and give rise to fast growing, technologically sophisticated social enterprises. What's more, those enterprises can remain firmly connected to the communities that gave rise to them, using membership participation to continually improve and adapt to the changing world.
Come along to 10 East Reach between 1pm and 3pm to find out more - and please stick around for the Annual General Meeting of SCS CIC at 4.30pm."

 

[MatthewRead]

Why would they use D trains for such a long distance service I though they were intended for short distance services.

 

[samuelmorris]

The prospect of an 80-odd mile journey with some stations half an hour apart is not quite the debut I'd expected for these units. The Civity they latter intend to use, sure, but is a 60mph unit actually going to follow that route without causing major pathing problems?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why would they use D trains for such a long distance service I though they were intended for short distance services.

The prospect of an 80-odd mile journey with some stations half an hour apart is not quite the debut I'd expected for these units. The Civity they latter intend to use, sure, but is a 60mph unit actually going to follow that route without causing major pathing problems?

I think the plan is 230s for the initial service from Taunton to Swindon only- to be extended to the great metropolis of Nuneaton once their Civities arrive. Though even the shorter service includes a fair bit of c.100mph track shared with HSTs...

Of course there's little chance of any of this actually happening anyway, so it's probably all academic.

 

[samuelmorris]

I think the plan is 230s for the initial service from Taunton to Swindon only- to be extended to the great metropolis of Nuneaton once their Civities arrive. Though even the shorter service includes a fair bit of c.100mph track shared with HSTs...

Of course there's little chance of any of this actually happening anyway, so it's probably all academic.

That's what I was referring to - going all the way to Nuneaton is double even that distance, would probably be getting on for 4 hours. It may well be a pipe dream but I would genuinely like to see schemes like these be successful, I'm just not sure it's a good fit for Vivarail, even for the smaller section of route they've highlighted on a temporary basis.

 

[A0]

I think the plan is 230s for the initial service from Taunton to Swindon only- to be extended to the great metropolis of Nuneaton once their Civities arrive. Though even the shorter service includes a fair bit of c.100mph track shared with HSTs...

Of course there's little chance of any of this actually happening anyway, so it's probably all academic.

I'd have thought they'd be better off arguing to use D trains between Nuneaton and Leamington Spa - doubt they'd get in the way of anything along that bit.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

How busy is the section between Cogload Junction and Westbury? If these proposed services were flighted behind HST services they'd be less of a problem than a freight would be, with the 230s having pretty decent acceleration apparently. Not sure how much demand there is between Taunton and Swindon other than when Taunton Town are playing Swindon Supermarine though. Taunton to Yeovil would seem a more logical service. When I lived in Taunton I was dating a lass from Wootton Bassett for a while so it might have been useful then- not enough to justify a service though!

 

[northwichcat]

Why would they use D trains for such a long distance service I though they were intended for short distance services.

I imagine they've asked manufacturers when they can have no trains ready for and got the most favourable response from CAF who told them as soon as they delivered the Northern and TPE sets but that's not soon enough for Go-op.

 

[The Planner]

I'd have thought they'd be better off arguing to use D trains between Nuneaton and Leamington Spa - doubt they'd get in the way of anything along that bit.

Quite the opposite, that is the reason why a bay platform is planned for Coventry as you cannot link up Nuneaton and Leamington as you cannot get across the station. So how Go Op seem to think they can do it I do not know. The plan to get the Kenilworth service in is tricky enough due to XC, freight and the single line. It is as though they havent even thought about it.

 

[theblackwatch]

As soon as I saw the heading of this thread I thought of the Class 50s - I know they even reached the stage of approaching some Class 50 owners!

Didn't they also trial a Parry People Mover on the Mid Hants?

 

[swt_passenger]

As soon as I saw the heading of this thread I thought of the Class 50s - I know they even reached the stage of approaching some Class 50 owners!

Didn't they also trial a Parry People Mover on the Mid Hants?

Planned to, but I'm pretty sure it never happened, as a PPM was never available. You could say the PPM failed its PPM...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I imagine they've asked manufacturers when they can have no trains ready for and got the most favourable response from CAF who told them as soon as they delivered the Northern and TPE sets but that's not soon enough for Go-op.

However, is it the case that CAF at least have trains that have actually passed all their proving trials?

 

[fgwrich]

Planned to, but I'm pretty sure it never happened, as a PPM was never available. You could say the PPM failed its PPM...

Nope, Amazingly they did trial it on the Mid Hants. Until it burst badly with brake failure and had to be towed back to Medstead and Four Marks before being taken away back to Parry's workshops. It has, Never been seen since!

Photos from this website. It disappeared before I saw it!

http://www.47soton.co.uk/2011/01/parry-people-mover-at-medstead-21st.html

 

[HLE]

I'd have thought they'd be better off arguing to use D trains between Nuneaton and Leamington Spa - doubt they'd get in the way of anything along that bit.

How about the main line at Coventry?

Could see a point about using them on the Coventry - Leamington service once Kenilworth is completed.

 

[The Ham]

Nope, Amazingly they did trial it on the Mid Hants. Until it burst badly with brake failure and had to be towed back to Medstead and Four Marks before being taken away back to Parry's workshops. It has, Never been seen since!

Photos from this website. It disappeared before I saw it!

http://www.47soton.co.uk/2011/01/parry-people-mover-at-medstead-21st.html

Which, almost, leads to the question; why not run (on a short term trial) D-trains on the Mid Hants before expanding to running mainline services?

If the D-train pays way then keep running that (a potential useful staff training tool), if not then when a mainline service is ready to run then stop the trail.

 

[route:oxford]

In the first instance, a few 4-coach power-doored HSTs (if there are enough spare to create some) on the Oxford/Didcot to Bletchley/Milton Keynes routes. They are on GWR land for sub-contracting of maintenance.

Any further HSTs left, then allocate the hourly(?) E-W "XC" path to Go-Op to open up connections between the East-Midlands and the South-West via Milton Keynes & Oxford.

 

[jimm]

In the first instance, a few 4-coach power-doored HSTs (if there are enough spare to create some) on the Oxford/Didcot to Bletchley/Milton Keynes routes. They are on GWR land for sub-contracting of maintenance.

If GWR does keep some HSTs, they will be maintained at Laira, in Plymouth, so not exactly convenient for Taunton, never mind Oxfordshire. And a start-up - or plenty of established operators come to that - isn't going to want anything to do with HSTs.

 

[northwichcat]

However, is it the case that CAF at least have trains that have actually passed all their proving trials?

AFAIK CAF have CIVITY trains in operation in Europe but will produce a modified vehicle for Northern and TPE due to different gauges and our platforms being higher than in other countries.

 

[route:oxford]

If GWR does keep some HSTs, they will be maintained at Laira, in Plymouth, so not exactly convenient for Taunton, never mind Oxfordshire. And a start-up - or plenty of established operators come to that - isn't going to want anything to do with HSTs.

A refurbished HST is going to be a better concept than a heritage loco and elderly Mk2 set.

 

[The Planner]

Go-Op couldn't operate it, they don't even have the funds as it stands to even make a bid for a franchise, let alone make it to an ITT. They would need some serious backing.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would a D-train stand any chance of making it up the hill from Weymouth?

 

[jimm]

A refurbished HST is going to be a better concept than a heritage loco and elderly Mk2 set.

Not if it's unaffordable and no one anywhere near your area of operations can maintain the things, it isn't.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would a D-train stand any chance of making it up the hill from Weymouth?

I managed the adjacent road in a Transit, and they have the same engine, so why not?!

NB: Just in case the smilies didn't make it clear, this was NOT a serious answer!

 

[swt_passenger]

Nope, Amazingly they did trial it on the Mid Hants. Until it burst badly with brake failure and had to be towed back to Medstead and Four Marks before being taken away back to Parry's workshops. It has, Never been seen since!

Photos from this website. It disappeared before I saw it!

http://www.47soton.co.uk/2011/01/parry-people-mover-at-medstead-21st.html

Perhaps it's more likely that what I heard was that despite all the publicity it never saw use by passengers?

 

[squizzler]

According to the Wikipedia (last updated November) Go-op intend to hire class 185 and then acquire 195. Does anybody have any recent gen about this interesting start-up?

 

[samuelmorris]

This all seemed very pie in the sky to me, but given the recent announcement about the ORR changing the rules about open access operators, potentially it could see schemes like this be more likely to succeed. It still seems a bit of a strange route to me, but competition, if you can call it that, certainly wouldn't do any harm.

 

[The Planner]

Like to see the paths they think they are getting to Nuneaton. How that is going to work north of Leamington should be amusing.

 

[HLE]

Like to see the paths they think they are getting to Nuneaton. How that is going to work north of Leamington should be amusing.

Dare I say no chance? Direct Leamington to Nuneaton services will have taken long enough

 

[DarloRich]

According to the Wikipedia (last updated November) Go-op intend to hire class 185 and then acquire 195. Does anybody have any recent gen about this interesting start-up?

It is not an interesting start up. It is pie in the sky

 

[The Planner]

Go Op are taking it seriously, I know they have been dealing with us over what they want, whether they get it is a different matter. Rumours of 769s.