Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[HH]

I seem to remember the train hosts being employed by GatEx, they seemed to disappear quickly after the barriers were fitted at Gatwick and Victoria.

Probably only a Southern HR person could give full details, but AFAIK the above is correct.

Southern took them off the trains and re-deployed them at Gatwick & Victoria. However they made several other changes in fairly short order and they had disappeared as a separate group by the time the TSGN franchise was being bid.

A salient point is that they were originally part of the justification for a higher fare on Gatex services. Nowadays the Gatex fare is simply a rip -off for those who don't understand the situation (i.e. occasional or one-off travellers).

 

[bnm]

Where are those RailUK members who were adamant that GatEx drivers had an agreement in place for no DOO beyond 10 cars?

One even saying they had seen this agreement. Why, if they'd seen such a document, did neither ASLEF or their legal team find it?

 

[infobleep]

Last Friday someone I kmow got held outside Redhill on a Reading to Redhill stopper. All the platforms were blocked with trains.

Is this a regular daily occurance at Redhill or were they just unlucky that day?

As a result they got back to their destination about 50 minutes late. I doubt they will bother submitting a delay repay claim but they could.

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I see a question was asked in Prime Minister's questions regarding Southern. David Cameron condemned the industrial action and said more generous compensation would be announced shortly.

Wonder who will fund that. The government I assume, aka tax payer.

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[speedy_sticks]

Redhill station is getting a new platform next to 1 and 2, so will either be 0.5 or if/when we leave Europe it will be 0 and a half?

Last Friday someone I kmow got held outside Redhill on a Reading to Redhill stopper. All the platforms were blocked with trains.

Is this a regular daily occurance at Redhill or were they just unlucky that day?

As a result they got back to their destination about 50 minutes late. I doubt they will bother submitting a delay repay claim but they could.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I see a question was asked in Prime Minister's questions regarding Southern. David Cameron condemned the industrial action and said more generous compensation would be announced shortly.

Wonder who will fund that. The government I assume, aka tax payer.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[HowardGWR]

Is this dispute, with the capitulation of the drivers, finished? Or have I misread the articles in the press?

 

[D1009]

Not sure how many people on here watch Prime Minister's Questions, but today I was more incensed by one of the questions than the answer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36661324

Passengers affected by a series of strikes on the Southern rail network have been promised more generous compensation by the Prime Minister.
The RMT union has staged walkouts over the introduction of driver-only-operated (DOO) trains and a change in conductors' roles.
Staff have also denied claims an increase in sickness levels is unofficial strike action.
David Cameron said he condemned any action that impinged on journeys.
He made his comments during Prime Minister's Questions in reply to Horsham Conservative MP Jeremy Quin.
Mr Quin said: "For weeks and weeks, my constituents have been struggling with the impact of unofficial industrial action on our railways.
"Not over jobs, not over wages, but over who gets to press a button.
"Will my right honourable friend condemn this in the strongest possible terms and help to resolve those issues?"

 

[plymothian]

"Not over jobs, not over wages, but over who gets to press a button.
"

This is all this dispute, in the public eyes, boils down to.
And the RMT are on to a loser.

 

[D1009]

Are any of the conductors represented by Jeremy Quin?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

In size order:

RMT
TSSA
ASLEF
and Unite

You forgot ATCU, Shaun Bradys breakaway union set up in the wake of the RMT 's bbq incident. although to be fair it is a small but growing union which unfortunately doesnt have the recognition the others have and therefore not the exposure the other unions enjoy.

 

[the sniper]

This is all this dispute, in the public eyes, boils down to.
And the RMT are on to a loser.

You might as well lose fighting rather than lose with egg on your face after foolishly welcoming in the trojan horse that lost you everything...

 

[speedy_sticks]

Not sure how many people on here watch Prime Minister's Questions, but today I was more incensed by one of the questions than the answer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36661324

I was furious, I phoned the Minister's office in Westminster more or less straight away in tears.

To his credit he phoned me back a few hours later, I set the records straight. I said that I was more angry with him, because of Brexit, other Countries were showing it - like Bloomberg TV, which goes out to the USA as well as other Countries!

He said that he was going to speak to GTR about the concerns and email me back.

I think that he was generally trying to work out how to remove his foot from his mouth! I wasn't the only one he was going to phone back either!

 

[Deepgreen]

Last Friday someone I kmow got held outside Redhill on a Reading to Redhill stopper. All the platforms were blocked with trains.

Is this a regular daily occurance at Redhill or were they just unlucky that day?

As a result they got back to their destination about 50 minutes late. I doubt they will bother submitting a delay repay claim but they could.

I believe I was also caught up in that debacle, if it happened in the evening peak, while I was awaiting the 1743 Reading train. A 4 car 377 train was standing at p2 (ECS, facing Tonbridge). A train (8 car 377) then arrived at p1 bound for London, and was taken out of service, presumably with no conductor. However, it was re-instated a while later.

Both trains waited and waited until a garbled message was broadcast for the crew of the London train to contact the supervisor. As this was so badly broadcast, the driver of the train didn't hear it and sat awaiting his next move. So did the driver of the train in p2 (the 377 at the Tonbridge end). Nothing happened for ages until a station staff member ambled up to the driver of the London train and words were had. They both then headed off back to the office and the driver told me as he passed that the other train's driver was refusing to leave his train unattended. Why the same didn't apply to the London train's driver I don't know, and a huge stalemate could have developed!

More time passed with nothing happening and the Reading to Redhill train had been stuck outside for at least 20 minutes by now with no platform being vacated for it. Eventually the London train departed and the GWR one arrived. Throughout the entire farce, consistently wrong announcements and screen information was provided, adding confusion. At least one passenger ended up at Betchworth rather than Gatwick as a result of believing the indicator screens!
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Redhill station is getting a new platform next to 1 and 2, so will either be 0.5 or if/when we leave Europe it will be 0 and a half?

It is designated as 0 at present but perhaps sense will prevail and the platforms will be renumbered. Regulars will soon adapt and airport passengers will be far less confused by a 1-4 system than a 0-3 one, in my view. Given Southern's atrocious information regime at Redhill already, they will almost certainly make a mess of it and add to any existing confusion! I wouldn't be suprised if we end up with 0a, 0b, 1 (to become a south-facing bay and not split(?)), 2a, 2b and 3, with the split platforms as badly delineated as they are now!

 

[tony6499]

Are any of the conductors represented by Jeremy Quin?

Those at Horsham depot would be I presume

 

[DarloRich]

You forgot ATCU, Shaun Bradys breakaway union set up in the wake of the RMT 's bbq incident. although to be fair it is a small but growing union which unfortunately doesnt have the recognition the others have and therefore not the exposure the other unions enjoy.

they aren't recognised so don't count ( yes i missed them off the list in error)

 

[infobleep]

I believe I was also caught up in that debacle, if it happened in the evening peak, while I was awaiting the 1743 Reading train. A 4 car 377 train was standing at p2 (ECS, facing Tonbridge). A train (8 car 377) then arrived at p1 bound for London, and was taken out of service, presumably with no conductor. However, it was re-instated a while later.

Both trains waited and waited until a garbled message was broadcast for the crew of the London train to contact the supervisor. As this was so badly broadcast, the driver of the train didn't hear it and sat awaiting his next move. So did the driver of the train in p2 (the 377 at the Tonbridge end). Nothing happened for ages until a station staff member ambled up to the driver of the London train and words were had. They both then headed off back to the office and the driver told me as he passed that the other train's driver was refusing to leave his train unattended. Why the same didn't apply to the London train's driver I don't know, and a huge stalemate could have developed!

More time passed with nothing happening and the Reading to Redhill train had been stuck outside for at least 20 minutes by now with no platform being vacated for it. Eventually the London train departed and the GWR one arrived. Throughout the entire farce, consistently wrong announcements and screen information was provided, adding confusion. At least one passenger ended up at Betchworth rather than Gatwick as a result of believing the indicator screens!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It is designated as 0 at present but perhaps sense will prevail and the platforms will be renumbered. Regulars will soon adapt and airport passengers will be far less confused by a 1-4 system than a 0-3 one, in my view. Given Southern's atrocious information regime at Redhill already, they will almost certainly make a mess of it and add to any existing confusion! I wouldn't be suprised if we end up with 0a, 0b, 1 (to become a south-facing bay and not split(?)), 2a, 2b and 3, with the split platforms as badly delineated as they are now!

That was the time. It didn't help that they missed a train 1 hour 40 minutes earlier due to living their bag in a ship and then missing the train an hour later for another reason.

Couldn't the supervisor have come out to speak to the drivers so that they didn't leave the trains unattended, if it's against the rule book or safe working practices.



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[Deepgreen]

That was the time. It didn't help that they missed a train 1 hour 40 minutes earlier due to living their bag in a ship and then missing the train an hour later for another reason.

Couldn't the supervisor have come out to speak to the drivers so that they didn't leave the trains unattended, if it's against the rule book or safe working practices.



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I am an almost daily victim of Redhill's mis-management, and the word "proactive" is not recognised by the staff there! I don't know whether one or both drivers were being deliberately difficult (I will assume not), or they genuinely couldn't hear or understand the announcements. If both were alone on their respective trains and the rules prevent them leaving trains unattended (I don't know if this is the case, but I have known plenty of trains to be un-staffed while turning round and with passengers aboard before now) one can imagine such stalemates arising at intervals with the current staffing woes.

 

[455driver]

I believe I was also caught up in that debacle, if it happened in the evening peak, while I was awaiting the 1743 Reading train. A 4 car 377 train was standing at p2 (ECS, facing Tonbridge). A train (8 car 377) then arrived at p1 bound for London, and was taken out of service, presumably with no conductor. However, it was re-instated a while later.

Both trains waited and waited until a garbled message was broadcast for the crew of the London train to contact the supervisor. As this was so badly broadcast, the driver of the train didn't hear it and sat awaiting his next move.

Driver probably not allowed to leave a train unattended on a running line so how could he go and locate the Supervisor without doing ?
The Supervisor would know where the driver was (sat in the front of the train) so why didnt they go to the driver?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am an almost daily victim of Redhill's mis-management, and the word "proactive" is not recognised by the staff there! I don't know whether one or both drivers were being deliberately difficult (I will assume not), or they genuinely couldn't hear or understand the announcements. If both were alone on their respective trains and the rules prevent them leaving trains unattended (I don't know if this is the case, but I have known plenty of trains to be un-staffed while turning round and with passengers aboard before now)

It depends what line (not platform) the trains are on, if its classed as a running line then the train cannot be left unattended except in certain circumstances, if its not classed as a running line then it can be left.

 

[tsr]

It depends what line (not platform) the trains are on, if its classed as a running line then the train cannot be left unattended except in certain circumstances, if its not classed as a running line then it can be left.

Nail on head. This applies to Platforms 2 and 3 only at Redhill. Platform 1 can be used for berthing stock.

 

[455driver]

Nail on head. This applies to Platforms 2 and 3 only at Redhill. Platform 1 can be used for berthing stock.

Oh I got something right for a change!

Of course all passengers would see was the driver sitting there despite being told (over the PA) to seek out the Supervisor so (the passengers) would just assume the driver was being an ar-e whereas he is actually sticking to the rule book, the same rule book the drivers Manager would throw at them if they left the train unattended on a running line.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could the supervisor have contacted the driver via GSM-R?

 

[455driver]

Could the supervisor have contacted the driver via GSM-R?

Deleted.

 

[tsr]

Could the supervisor have contacted the driver via GSM-R?

There is no GSM-R terminal for platform staff at Redhill, so not directly. Redhill has direct communication between the Information Point and the signaller, but I'm not sure if they could be patched through in some way or another.

There could be reasons why it was felt best for some staff to stay put - for example, the station supervisor (probably a station manager or team leader, in fact) may have felt the need to remain in the Information Point to monitor CCTV to check overcrowding. Recently there have been overcrowding problems leading to Redhill having to be closed during service disruption. I'm not sure why another member of staff couldn't relay a message, though.

 

[infobleep]

Driver probably not allowed to leave a train unattended on a running line so how could he go and locate the Supervisor without doing ?

The Supervisor would know where the driver was (sat in the front of the train) so why didnt they go to the driver?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


It depends what line (not platform) the trains are on, if its classed as a running line then the train cannot be left unattended except in certain circumstances, if its not classed as a running line then it can be left.

Out of interest, are all platform lines running lines if they are not Bay platforms?

I think the supervisor should have gone to the driver. It's not that difficult surely. As a result someone had to pay compensation to Great Western Railway for the train being half an hour late.

It delayed the Gatwick Airport train too. That was cancelled to Gatwick, no doubt delaying passengers from Gatwick.

Possibly all because the supervisor didn't come out to speak to the drivers. It's very stressful for all right now but they need to do as best they can whilst working in order to help justify with the passengers their usefulness.

It helps to have passengers on your side in my opinion.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is no GSM-R terminal for platform staff at Redhill, so not directly. Redhill has direct communication between the Information Point and the signaller, but I'm not sure if they could be patched through in some way or another.

There could be reasons why it was felt best for some staff to stay put - for example, the station supervisor (probably a station manager or team leader, in fact) may have felt the need to remain in the Information Point to monitor CCTV to check overcrowding. Recently there have been overcrowding problems leading to Redhill having to be closed during service disruption. I'm not sure why another member of staff couldn't relay a message, though.

Perhaps they could have asked a passenger.

In all seriousness. Is it possible only the supervisor was on duty at the time?

Anyone know how the stalemate was resolved, assuming it was that.

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[455driver]

Not all through lines are classed as running lines, some are classed as loop lines even when they are the main through lines (if you see what I mean).

 

[infobleep]

Not all through lines are classed as running lines, some are classed as loop lines even when they are the main through lines (if you see what I mean).

I do thanks.

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[JamesTT]

https://gtrailwaycareers.com/templa...4663667346F48426D653567686D304B466E4434472F42

Didn't somebody say they would not be recruiting any new OBS staff?

 

[James H]

Sorry if this has been posted before, but Charles Horton, Dyan Crowther and Mick Cash are up before the Commons transport select committee next Tuesday:

Webcast here from 10.05am on Tuesday:

http://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/69dab8ef-e65d-4713-8ccf-98954e7345a1

 

[47271]

Moving over to Scotrail for a change, I like these excerpts from today's story below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36683683

The RMT described the move as "another round of needless, damaging strikes".

ScotRail managing director Phil Verster said: "The RMT have announced another round of needless, damaging strikes on the evening before we are due to come together for talks."

So we're all in agreement then.

 

[Flamingo]

Moving over to Scotrail for a change, I like these excerpts from today's story below:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36683683

The RMT described the move as "another round of needless, damaging strikes".

ScotRail managing director Phil Verster said: "The RMT have announced another round of needless, damaging strikes on the evening before we are due to come together for talks."

So we're all in agreement then.

Well, union members are losing pay, something that is never done lightly, and in my experience, is only done as a last resort.

 

[oldman]

Scottish Government slightly taking sides:

In my letter to the RMT today I have reiterated that safety on the railways is the Scottish Government’s paramount concern which is why, after reading RMT’s publication The Safety Critical Role of the Guard’, I took advice from the independent Rail Regulator (ORR) on the safety of driver controlled trains. On the basis of their scrutiny of this subject over a number of years, ORR have provided that reassurance. The ORR acts independently of both industry and government within a clearly defined legal framework and is therefore able to take decisions which are objective, impartial and transparent.

From a statement by the Minister for Transport and the Islands