Southern DOO: ASLEF members vote 79.1% for revised deal

[Wolfie]

I wonder if they are celebrating the vote to leave the EU with the smug satisfaction in the knowledge that they were the only two rail unions to go against the "Remain" campaign.

How many rail unions are there? The only other one I know of is TSSA...

Just a thought I have had, are there any MPs who are registered disabled?

I'm not sure about the situation now. There certainly have been eg David Blunket.

 

[D1009]

I wonder if they are celebrating the vote to leave the EU with the smug satisfaction in the knowledge that they were the only two rail unions to go against the "Remain" campaign.

They may be, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the subject under discussion.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They may be, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the subject under discussion.

It shows them in a better light that they are more in touch with the wishes of those who travel and not just adhering to the vision sometimes given of being the People's Commisariat of Railways.

 

[D1009]

Just a thought I have had, are there any MPs who are registered disabled?

A few lost out in last year's election. The most prominent one now is Paul Maynard (Con, Blackpool North and Cleveleys) who has had celebral palsy and a speech disorder from birth. He doesn't seem particularly interested in disabled people's rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Maynard

 

[philthetube]

I don't know how good an orator you are Speedy but I think you, or perhaps you know someone else, should be contacting all media offering interviews, local papers love anything which fills space and local radio similarly, local and nation T.V. are also interested in anything controversial and GTR currently fit that bill twice over.

 

[speedy_sticks]

Exciting developments on this coming soon!

I don't know how good an orator you are Speedy but I think you, or perhaps you know someone else, should be contacting all media offering interviews, local papers love anything which fills space and local radio similarly, local and nation T.V. are also interested in anything controversial and GTR currently fit that bill twice over.

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Researching isn't your strong point obviously!

He has done alot for young disabled folks via the committee. Including on transport.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/young-disabled-people.htm

A few lost out in last year's election. The most prominent one now is Paul Maynard (Con, Blackpool North and Cleveleys) who has had celebral palsy and a speech disorder from birth. He doesn't seem particularly interested in disabled people's rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Maynard

 

[GatwickDepress]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Researching isn't your strong point obviously!

He has done alot for young disabled folks via the committee. Including on transport.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmallparty/register/young-disabled-people.htm

I wouldn't call voting in favour of cutting disability benefit by £30 a week "doing a lot"!

 

[Carlisle]

It shows them in a better light that they are more in touch with the wishes of those who travel and not just adhering to the vision sometimes given of being the People's Commisariat of Railways.

True, or assuming no revolution maybe those in the higher echelons of the RMT are realistic enough to realise their brand of politics are only really going to be greatly beneficial to very much a niche market

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

How many rail unions are there? The only other one I know of is TSSA...

Two out of three is not a bad percentage. Are you saying that the TSSA are not a valued part of the socialist inspired "Peoples Commisariat of Railways"...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

True, or assuming no revolution, maybe those in the higher echelons of the RMT are realistic enough to realise their brand of politics are only really going to be greatly beneficial to very much a niche market

Is it still like the bad old days when the guiding hand of those in ul. Bolshya Lubyanka were giving "correctness of action" advice to all parts of the unions in Britain?

 

[DarloRich]

Everyone seems to have assumed the costs ASLEF must pay are £250,000 - about £14 an active member. No way. The quarter of a million is just a part payment to be made in three weeks. It seems it may be much more in total.
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The legal term used apparently was 'payment on account'.

it is payment on account of costs with full costs to be agreed subject to assessment should those costs not be agreed. The full costs may (or may not) be more than the payment on account. The costs will be more and i would say around the £1m mark all told.

How many rail unions are there? The only other one I know of is TSSA...

In size order:

RMT
TSSA
ASLEF
and Unite

They may be, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with the subject under discussion.

But that is nothing new there!

Two out of three is not a bad percentage. Are you saying that the TSSA are not a valued part of the socialist inspired "Peoples Commisariat of Railways"...

You don't half talk some rubbish, dressed up in flowery archaic language! The TSSA pro remain stance in relation to the referendum was democratically voted for and approved by conference delegates representing the members.

That was the same as Unite, Unison, USDAW, CWU, Community and the GMB. Obviously, despite what you seem to think, membership of a union doesn't remove the ability for a member to think for themselves!

 

[infobleep]

it is payment on account of costs with full costs to be agreed subject to assessment should those costs not be agreed. The full costs may (or may not) be more than the payment on account. The costs will be more and i would say around the £1m mark all told.



In size order:

RMT
TSSA
ASLEF
and Unite



But that is nothing new there!



You don't half talk some rubbish, dressed up in flowery archaic language! The TSSA pro remain stance in relation to the referendum was democratically voted for and approved by conference delegates representing the members.

That was the same as Unite, Unison, USDAW, CWU, Community and the GMB. Obviously, despite what you seem to think, membership of a union doesn't remove the ability for a member to think for themselves!

Why would it cost £1 million. Is that because they take into account disruption to services and would thus I crude trains that could have e running with less carriages and some locked out of use?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[DarloRich]

Why would it cost £1 million. Is that because they take into account disruption to services and would thus I crude trains that could have e running with less carriages and some locked out of use?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

no: because legal fees and enlisting the support of QC's and a team of our learned friends doesn't come cheap!

 

[hwl]

no: because legal fees and enlisting the support of QC's and a team of our learned friends doesn't come cheap!

Having used some of Eversheds magic circle competitors I can assure you the QCs will probably have been the reasonable part of the bill!

 

[DarloRich]

Having used some of Eversheds magic circle competitors I can assure you the QCs will probably have been the reasonable part of the bill!

I am afraid I couldn't possible comment. I am sure legal fees are always fair and reasonable.

 

[XDM]

Why would it cost £1 million. Is that because they take into account disruption to services and would thus I crude trains that could have e running with less carriages and some locked out of use?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Not sure a million,but possible as capable lawyers are high earners.
I am told the company have waived disruption to service costs due to aslef's illegal action & agreed not to pursue action against any drivers who acted illegally. Sounds like a deal in the making as they could have hit ASLEF for much more than a million if these were not waived. What have ASLEF given in return?

 

[DarloRich]

Not sure a million,but possible as capable lawyers are high earners.
I am told the company have waived disruption to service costs due to aslef's illegal action & agreed not to pursue action against any drivers who acted illegally. Sounds like a deal in the making as they could have hit ASLEF for much more than a million if these were not waived. What have ASLEF given in return?

withdrawn the action, accepted the agreement in question is valid and ceased their (public) opposition to the 12 car trains.

 

[infobleep]

no: because legal fees and enlisting the support of QC's and a team of our learned friends doesn't come cheap!

That reminds me of the up and coming legal costs the country will have for voting to leave the EU. Wonder if we will get a published record of those costs. I'm sure they will be far greater than the costs the RMT will foot for this case.

With Mr Cameron stepping down, it got me wondering. Are all Conservative MPs wanting to see the unions crushed or just a large majority? Would Mr Cameron have been happy for this dispute not to happen but as the rest of his party wanted it to, he had to go along with it for the sake of unity? As head of the party he is ultimately responsible of course but I just wondered.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[XDM]

withdrawn the action, accepted the agreement in question is valid and ceased their (public) opposition to the 12 car trains.

That was not given in return. It was highly likely that would have been the order of the court if the action went to trial, plus more mega costs against the union. Hence ASLEF's wise decision to withdraw. Something may have been given by ASLEF to stop the company demanding the payment of disruption costs etc.
Any suggestions? Possibly restoration of goodwill, or more?

 

[Flamingo]

Not sure a million,but possible as capable lawyers are high earners.
I am told the company have waived disruption to service costs due to aslef's illegal action & agreed not to pursue action against any drivers who acted illegally. Sounds like a deal in the making as they could have hit ASLEF for much more than a million if these were not waived. What have ASLEF given in return?

Why don't you tell us what ASLEF gave? You seem better placed than us mere mortals to know...

 

[DarloRich]

That was not given in return. It was highly likely that would have been the order of the court if the action went to trial, plus more mega costs against the union. Hence ASLEF's wise decision to withdraw. Something may have been given by ASLEF to stop the company demanding the payment of disruption costs etc.
Any suggestions? Possibly restoration of goodwill, or more?

I think those things are useful to GTR in the long run. One oikish union beaten into silence, trains running ( without guards) a dispute with drivers kicked into touch for now, positive publicity to help in their campaign against the other union AND the government kept happy by beating the unions.

yeah - not a bad result + costs!

 

[tony6499]

That was not given in return. It was highly likely that would have been the order of the court if the action went to trial, plus more mega costs against the union. Hence ASLEF's wise decision to withdraw. Something may have been given by ASLEF to stop the company demanding the payment of disruption costs etc.
Any suggestions? Possibly restoration of goodwill, or more?

How can you restore goodwill ? That is up to each driver to decide if he wishes to do work rest days etc.

 

[HowardGWR]

How can you restore goodwill ? That is up to each driver to decide if he wishes to do work rest days etc.

It always was, was it not?

 

[455driver]

How can you restore goodwill ? That is up to each driver to decide if he wishes to do work rest days etc.

Because in XDM world we are incapable of independent thought and have to be instructed to do everything, and once instructed we do it blindly without question.

 

[bnm]

And to think of all the grief I got when I dared to suggest that the GatEx driver who took unilateral action on union say so was acting illegally.

Clear as day when it occurred.

 

[bnm]

Which was precisely the question I asked on an ancestor of this thread two months ago, and was assured that it was documented. It would seem to have been an incorrect assurance.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2526859#post2526859

And a few posts later in that thread there was a forthright few posts from rail staff saying there was documented proof that DOO could not be extended to 12 car on GatEx. One rail staff member saying they had copies of the drivers agreement where this was documented. I said at the time that if there was proof it was not enough to say so. It should have been provided. Suitably redacted of anything non-pertinent of course. I wonder why that forum member, who so vociferously stated they had the proof, didn't or doesn't provide it to ASLEF's legal team? Surely if it proves ASLEF's case it should be sent to them post haste.

If it exists of course. :roll:

 

[speedy_sticks]

That was not given in return. It was highly likely that would have been the order of the court if the action went to trial, plus more mega costs against the union. Hence ASLEF's wise decision to withdraw. Something may have been given by ASLEF to stop the company demanding the payment of disruption costs etc.
Any suggestions? Possibly restoration of goodwill, or more?

I did see a graphic on Twitter a while back regarding OBS and guard proposed staffing levels at depots and I am sure I saw that Gatwick Express would gain a few OBS staff.

 

[HH]

I did see a graphic on Twitter a while back regarding OBS and guard proposed staffing levels at depots and I am sure I saw that Gatwick Express would gain a few OBS staff.

Would those be some of the ones it lost previously, that they moved to Gatwick and then slowly disappeared? IIRC.

 

[FordFocus]

Indeed HH, perhaps that history lesson needs to be reminded to the people who think the OBS role will have the same establishment numbers of staff and won't slowly disappear over time..........

 

[JamesTT]

Indeed HH, perhaps that history lesson needs to be reminded to the people who think the OBS role will have the same establishment numbers of staff and won't slowly disappear over time..........

Could someone give an accurate story of what happened to the Gatwick Hosts.
When were they introduced, when were they phased out? Did the phasing out happen gradually, or was there a mass cull? Were the hosts agency staff or employed directly by the TOC? When the host jobs went how many were made redundant and how many were transferred into other roles?

 

[Fincra5]

I seem to remember the train hosts being employed by GatEx, they seemed to disappear quickly after the barriers were fitted at Gatwick and Victoria.