Campaign to restore passenger services on the Middlewich Link Line

[Starmill]

If it could really be done for only £1m you would think Mr Osborne would have gone for this as a quick win by now...

 

[northwichcat]

If it could really be done for only £1m you would think Mr Osborne would have gone for this as a quick win by now...

Mr Osborne probably can't find Middlewich on a map. He seems to think making appearances to promote Airport City and HS3 or 'Northern Powerhouse Rail' will impress his constituents.

The consultants report was published in July 2009 so inflation needs to be taken in to consideration. Also the £1m cost was based on a 142 or a 153 running a Northwich to Crewe shuttle. With the plan to run additional services to Northwich and to withdraw Pacers what needs to be looked at instead is the cost of a Manchester-Northwich-Crewe service operated by 2 car Sprinters in comparison to a Manchester-Northwich only service (which is already allowed for in the Northern franchise spec.)

 

[no commute yet]

Given the terrible traffic queues, and lack of parking, at Gadbrook Park I'm surprised Barclays Bank haven't asked Mr Osborne to green light this project. The line runs yards away from Barclay's Gadbrook office. The new business case includes a station at Gadbrook - 5,000 people work there but it has no public transport connection.

Paul Salveson spoke at the last Mid Cheshire Rail Link campaign meeting, in a personal capacity and not on behalf of Arriva. He has seen the updated business case and thinks it is very good.

Alex Haynes is speaking at the MCRUA AGM tomorrow so it wil be interesting to hear from him about getting these South Manchester/Mid Cheshire passenger services running again.

 

[Kettledrum]

Given the terrible traffic queues, and lack of parking, at Gadbrook Park I'm surprised Barclays Bank haven't asked Mr Osborne to green light this project. The line runs yards away from Barclay's Gadbrook office. The new business case includes a station at Gadbrook - 5,000 people work there but it has no public transport connection.

Paul Salveson spoke at the last Mid Cheshire Rail Link campaign meeting, in a personal capacity and not on behalf of Arriva. He has seen the updated business case and thinks it is very good.

Alex Haynes is speaking at the MCRUA AGM tomorrow so it wil be interesting to hear from him about getting these South Manchester/Mid Cheshire passenger services running again.

Perhaps Barclays could bankroll part of the project. There would be huge benefits to them and their staff

 

[Bald Rick]

Perhaps Barclays could bankroll part of the project. There would be huge benefits to them and their staff

What would be the benefits to Barclays?

 

[no commute yet]

Reduced costs from paying taxi fares to get people to/from Barclays, already overcrowded parking, inability to expand size of current office space because of need for more parking but no space for it, ease of travel, ability to work on the train - which you can't do while driving.

In addition to benefits for Barclays, the ability to attract staff when everyone knows how chronic the congestion is there.

Anyone on here work on Gadbrook and got any more reasons?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think you should try and evaluate the percentage of people at Gadbrook and come up with a statistical summary of how people there travel to and from work. Car ownership, when there are available car parking spaces, allows travel directly to and from home.

The Waters Corporation headquarters site in Altrincham Road, Wilmslow, is a very good example of their view of the necessity of providing a very large number of car parking spaces when this new site was in the process of being established there.

 

[Altfish]

I think you should try and evaluate the percentage of people at Gadbrook and come up with a statistical summary of how people there travel to and from work. Car ownership, when there are available car parking spaces, allows travel directly to and from home.

The Waters Corporation headquarters site in Altrincham Road, Wilmslow, is a very good example of their view of the necessity of providing a very large number of car parking spaces when this new site was in the process of being established there.

It is usually planning issues that limit the amount of parking, I suspect the Waters site got away with it because it had been derelict for so long and was an eyesore. Cheshire East (?) were glad of the development.

#No commute yet
Not sure how your argument for Barclays is justified. Radbrook Hall must be over two miles from Knutsford station, is that what you mean?

 

[northwichcat]

I think you should try and evaluate the percentage of people at Gadbrook and come up with a statistical summary of how people there travel to and from work. Car ownership, when there are available car parking spaces, allows travel directly to and from home.

I'm aware of one business who moved from Altrincham to Knutsford, then a few years later moved to Gadbrook Park. The employees based in the Altrincham area all decided to leave after relocating at Gadbrook Park due to traffic problems, despite living less than 15 miles from their place of work.

Also as I've mentioned before The Hut Group, the largest employer in the mid-Cheshire area, has suggested it will move to either Trafford Park or the West Midlands due to the infrastructure in mid-Cheshire being inadequate for it's growth plans.

The Waters Corporation headquarters site in Altrincham Road, Wilmslow, is a very good example of their view of the necessity of providing a very large number of car parking spaces when this new site was in the process of being established there.

Yet Waters were one body who pushed for the 88 bus route to be enhanced with alternate services routed past their front door and I've heard some of those buses now have more passengers than seats despite a total of 70 seats being provided per hour on the route, when it was previously 38.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It is usually planning issues that limit the amount of parking, I suspect the Waters site got away with it because it had been derelict for so long and was an eyesore. Cheshire East (?) were glad of the development.

Apparently if it's not already an employment site the developers must base the plans on a certain proportion of workers getting to work by walking, cycling and public transport. Although, what usually happens is a business moves in and doesn't care about how many official parking spaces they have and just tell their employers to park on local routes e.g. Knutsford Business Park.

Radbrook Hall must be over two miles from Knutsford station

Barclays also have a site at Gadbrook Park.

 

[Altfish]

Barclays also have a site at Gadbrook Park.

Ah, I didn't realise

 

[snowball]

inability to expand size of current office space because of need for more parking but no space for it

Given what's happening to their shares at the moment I don't think they'll be worrying about expansion just now.

 

[northwichcat]

Given what's happening to their shares at the moment I don't think they'll be worrying about expansion just now.

Barclays have many sites. Their Radbrooke Hall site near Knutsford has actually expanded as a result of the 2008 banking crash due to work being scaled back at other sites.

 

[Heartland]

There has been a recent appeal for having a new passenger station at Middlewich. The concern that the population might require such a service is yet another request that has followed others in the past.

How practical is this new appeal and how much freight uses this line now?

A key part of this proposal is to run services via Acton, Sanbach Junction and Sandbach to Crewe missing out Winsford. If this did go ahead would Winsford loose its service. There is a good bus service from Winsford to Middlewich. So is this proposed service required?

 

[northwichcat]

As far as I'm aware the plan is for additional services between Northwich and Crewe via Middlewich and the LM services via Winsford would be unaffected.

 

[Jack Hay]

I understand the campaigners are seeking a service to Manchester via Northwich and Altrincham, and possibly one to Chester via Greenbank too. No desire for a service to Acton Bridge and beyond, but that is served from Winsford which is nearby as you say.h

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I understand the campaigners are seeking a service to Manchester via Northwich and Altrincham, and possibly one to Chester via Greenbank too. No desire for a service to Acton Bridge and beyond, but that is served from Winsford which is nearby as you say.h

How long would the service to Manchester, via Northwich and Altrincham, likely to take?

 

[northwichcat]

I understand the campaigners are seeking a service to Manchester via Northwich and Altrincham, and possibly one to Chester via Greenbank too. No desire for a service to Acton Bridge and beyond, but that is served from Winsford which is nearby as you say.h

I don't know why a Warrington Bank Quay to Altrincham service hasn't been looked at. That could provide a regular service for Acton Bridge as well providing an additional service on the busiest section of the Mid-Cheshire line and providing new journey opportunities to Warrington and the WCML from the Mid-Cheshire line. I imagine for most people living in Acton Bridge a service to Northwich would be more useful than the existing service to Hartford (ignoring the school and college flow.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How long would the service to Manchester, via Northwich and Altrincham, likely to take?

It'll depend on the stopping pattern and how good the path is. The overnight ATW service which runs non-stop from Chester to Manchester via Northwich can get from Chester to Manchester in 65 minutes, the same sort of time the daytime service via Warrington takes on the shorter route which includes stops at quite a few stations.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It'll depend on the stopping pattern and how good the path is. The overnight ATW service which runs non-stop from Chester to Manchester via Northwich can get from Chester to Manchester in 65 minutes, the same sort of time the daytime service via Warrington takes on the shorter route which includes stops at quite a few stations.

I take your point about the stopping pattern, but I don't really think you can use the overnight non-stop ATW service as an example. Where should such a service actually have stops which would be of use on this particular discussion that would be of use to passengers.

Of course, as has often been said in the past, the time from Altrincham to Manchester via Stockport is one that will not exactly help matters.

 

[northwichcat]

I take your point about the stopping pattern, but I don't really think you can use the overnight non-stop ATW service as an example. Where should such a service actually have stops which would be of use on this particular discussion that would be of use to passengers.

Of course, as has often been said in the past, the time from Altrincham to Manchester via Stockport is one that will not exactly help matters.

Given the absence of any semi-fast services in the current timetable the non-stop time alongside the stopping time can be used to work out a rough estimate for how long semi-fast services would take.

In an ideal world the western Airport link would be built and then 2 local tph could run via Altrincham with additional longer distance services making calls at Knutsford and Northwich only - in the same way that Widnes and Birchwood are served by longer distance services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In an ideal world the western Airport link would be built

In recent times, has there been a re-thought on this project since the advent of HS2? Quite a few years ago, did the Strategic Rail Authority express a view on the same subject?

 

[northwichcat]

In recent times, has there been a re-thought on this project since the advent of HS2? Quite a few years ago, did the Strategic Rail Authority express a view on the same subject?

Network Rail said the idea will be reexamined in CP6 (April 2019 to April 2024.) The Airport's long term development indicates they don't think it'll be needed. However, it wouldn't just be the Airport it would benefit.

 

[Jack Hay]

Network Rail said the idea will be reexamined in CP6 (April 2019 to April 2024.) The Airport's long term development indicates they don't think it'll be needed. However, it wouldn't just be the Airport it would benefit.

Now that the Airport has indicated that it will continue to protect the route of the Western link, there's the opportunity for a campaign to persuade the Airport of how valuable it will really be; and to persuade other bodies such as Rail North and DfT of the wider benefits of a new link (e.g. converting the airport station to a through station benefits railway operation and capacity in south Manchester; and there's a new faster route to Manchester city centre from Cheshire and from every other connection off the Mid Cheshire line - and it is VERY well connected.)

 

[northwichcat]

This has been shared on Twitter. Northwich to Crewe with calls at Sandbach and Middlewich was possible in 23 minutes under L&NW on a service between Manchester Oxford Road and London Euston via Old Trafford, Northwich and Birmingham!

 

[Altfish]

How long would the service to Manchester, via Northwich and Altrincham, likely to take?

Currently Northwich to Piccadilly takes about an hour for the stopping at every stop journey. So Middlewich would be 10/15 minutes longer.
I suppose the service would be from/to Crewe.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Currently Northwich to Piccadilly takes about an hour for the stopping at every stop journey. So Middlewich would be 10/15 minutes longer.
I suppose the service would be from/to Crewe.

Perhaps when totally rid of the dreaded 142s there will be the potential to shave a few minutes off the current Mid Cheshire Line journey times?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Currently Northwich to Piccadilly takes about an hour for the stopping at every stop journey. So Middlewich would be 10/15 minutes longer. I suppose the service would be from/to Crewe.

There are already stopping services from Crewe to Manchester via Stockport and via the Styal line.

 

[Altfish]

There are already stopping services from Crewe to Manchester via Stockport and via the Styal line.

The main advantage of the Crewe connection is for people on the Knutsford to Northwich section to be able to easily access London/Birmingham (and hopefully HS2) trains rather than have to go via Stockport or Chester.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The main advantage of the Crewe connection is for people on the Knutsford to Northwich section to be able to easily access London/Birmingham (and hopefully HS2) trains rather than have to go via Stockport or Chester.

I suppose that there will be no problems with available paths once the service from Middlewich joins the main line between Sandbach and Crewe, as that point appears not to have been raised.

 

[northwichcat]

Currently Northwich to Piccadilly takes about an hour for the stopping at every stop journey. So Middlewich would be 10/15 minutes longer.
I suppose the service would be from/to Crewe.

If it's a semi-fast with a good path between Stockport and Manchester it should be possible to do Manchester to Middlewich in 55 minutes. Currently southbound the journey time to Northwich is 56 minutes and there's a 3 minute dwell time at Stockport, so 53 minutes would be possible if a better path can be found at the next recast, while missing out 5 stations could take up to 10 minutes off the journey time.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suppose that there will be no problems with available paths once the service from Middlewich joins the main line between Sandbach and Crewe, as that point appears not to have been raised.

It may not have been raised in this thread but it's certainly been looked at. It's been reported if the option of extending one of the Crewe terminators to either Nantwich (which has been mooted with a short section of electrification) or Stoke is taken up it would be easier to fit in a terminating service from the Middlewich branch.

 

[Greybeard33]

I suppose that there will be no problems with available paths once the service from Middlewich joins the main line between Sandbach and Crewe, as that point appears not to have been raised.

Sandbach to Crewe is 4-tracked, but there is no access to Crewe station from the Independent lines. So the service from Middlewich would have to cross to the Up Wilmslow at Sandbach South Junction.