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Should we have another referendum?

MULTIPLE CHOICE: Should we have another referendum on these subjects?


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Mutant Lemming

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The leave complain and we have a third vote.:)
We live in a democracy a section of society cannot dump it just because they dont like the outcome of a vote.

...and what if the Leave vote actually increases ? Keep having referenda until you get the result you like.

Like it or loathe it it is a democratic vote - I didn't like Thatcher gaining power but you just have to accept it and get on with it. The alternative is to follow Bolsheviks lead and decide that the unwashed masses are not ready to vote and will only be ready to vote when they vote for what we want them to vote for - and if you disagree Uncle Joe will sort you out.
 
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Phil.

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If you voted remain and are unhappy zip down this checklist and be comforted.

1 Call every white person who voted "Leave" a racist conveniently ignoring the fact that Europeans are also white. Make sure also that you marginalise and ignore ethnic minority "Leave" voters.

2 Claim that that the enormous turnout wasn't high enough. 72%? It should have been at least 75%. 80%? It should have been at least 85%. Make sure to keep moving the figures to suit your complaining.

3 Make a stupid e-petition demanding another referendum, just like the socialists did when Labour lost the last General Election. Referendums are needed until the correct result is reached.

4 Get over-exited about the economy , even if nothing has really happened. Pretend that that third class degree in Russian-Social economics that you got from the L.S.E. makes you an expert on the world markets.

5 Attack the very idea of democracy because it's only a good thing when it goes the way that you want it to. Working class voters don't know what's good for them but middle class liberals from Islington and Hampstead do. (Expect an outpouring of grief from champagne socialist pin-up girl Emma Thompson any day now).

6 Share memes attacking brexit voters whilst ignoring the unwelcome and uncomfortable realisation that you are in the minority of public opinion (see 5 above).

7 Boldly claim that Scotland will leave the U.K. forgetting - like most Scottish Nationals do - that they can't afford to, the EU probably don't want them and the majority of Scotland voted to leave.

8 Make fun of Boris Johnson whilst secretly hoping that he won't become Prime Minister (for what it's worth I don' think that he will).

9 Like the Labour party (currently starting to implode) learn nothing from the campaign blaming the result on everything and everybody except yourself. Scaremongering and bullying are brilliant tactics, what could possibly go wrong?

10 Curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep whilst humming "Ode to Joy".
 

Mutant Lemming

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Sturgeon is priceless - fine am sure she will get her Scottish Independence referendum in due course. That vote will NOT give them EU membership, they will have to take their turn in the queue behind Serbia and others and fulfil all the necessary criteria before being allowed to join - by which time Denmark may have left the EU leaving Scotland an isolated EU pocket in the North Sea.
 

Moonshot

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Sturgeon is priceless - fine am sure she will get her Scottish Independence referendum in due course. That vote will NOT give them EU membership, they will have to take their turn in the queue behind Serbia and others and fulfil all the necessary criteria before being allowed to join - by which time Denmark may have left the EU leaving Scotland an isolated EU pocket in the North Sea.

And of course 1 condition of joining the EU is adopting the Euro as your currency......I wonder how palatable that would be to the average Scot.
 

Harbornite

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If you voted remain and are unhappy zip down this checklist and be comforted.

1 Call every white person who voted "Leave" a racist conveniently ignoring the fact that Europeans are also white. Make sure also that you marginalise and ignore ethnic minority "Leave" voters.

I'm a bit unhappy with the result and yet I acknowledge that not all brexiters are racist. Only some of them are, so this point doesn't apply to me.

2 Claim that that the enormous turnout wasn't high enough. 72%? It should have been at least 75%. 80%? It should have been at least 85%. Make sure to keep moving the figures to suit your complaining.

I'm not bothered by the turnout, I'm bothered by the result.

3 Make a stupid e-petition demanding another referendum, just like the socialists did when Labour lost the last General Election. Referendums are needed until the correct result is reached.

It's called democracy, and you have to question the validity of the result when we don't know how many brexiters regret their vote

4 Get over-exited about the economy , even if nothing has really happened. Pretend that that third class degree in Russian-Social economics that you got from the L.S.E. makes you an expert on the world markets.

Stuff has happened, just do some research (businesses withdrawing staff, the decline of sterling etc). Are you an expert on world markets? Most experts supported remaining.

5 Attack the very idea of democracy because it's only a good thing when it goes the way that you want it to. Working class voters don't know what's good for them but middle class liberals from Islington and Hampstead do.

This boils down to education, there have been quite a few uninformed votes and it's no coincidence that better-educated people tended to support remaining.

6 Share memes attacking brexit voters whilst ignoring the unwelcome and uncomfortable realisation that you are in the minority of public opinion (see 5 above).

48% is still quite a lot, but what do I know?

7 Boldly claim that Scotland will leave the U.K. forgetting - like most Scottish Nationals do - that they can't afford to, the EU probably don't want them and the majority of Scotland voted to leave.

The probably will end up getting another referendum, although I personally think that the case for Scottish independence doesn't add up. Either way, most Scots actually voted to remain so you are wrong. Also are you qualified to say the EU doesn't want them?

8 Make fun of Boris Johnson whilst secretly hoping that he won't become Prime Minister (for what it's worth I don' think that he will).

Do you want him as PM?

9 Like the Labour party (currently starting to implode) learn nothing from the campaign blaming the result on everything and everybody except yourself. Scaremongering and bullying are brilliant tactics, what could possibly go wrong?

Not really. The remain campaign was pretty poor and failed to achieve its objective, while the leave campaign was based on scaremongering and lies. Quite ironic, really.

I'm not convinced.
 
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flymo

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I'm not convinced.

Voting in UK should be compulsory. How many "remain"ers also regretted their vote. Holy Moly , what a shocking state of affairs. Let's keep on voting until we get the result some idiots want. It happened , Britain voted out . Deal with it.

My guess is that all that wanted to leave voted, all those that wanted to remain couldn't be bothered. Tough.
 

Harbornite

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Voting in UK should be compulsory. How many "remain"ers also regretted their vote. What a shocking state of affairs. Let's keep on voting until we get the result some people want. It happened , Britain voted out . Deal with it.

My guess is that all that wanted to leave voted, all those that wanted to remain couldn't be bothered. Tough.

I've yet to hear of anyone who regrets voting in, more than can be said for those who voted out.
 
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bb21

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I am equally uneasy at the suggestion of another referendum on the same questions. It makes a mockery of our democracy.

The Remain side messed up. If the other side put outright lies on buses and drove them around, why did the Remain side not do the same on ten buses to rebuke the lies?

As some put it nicely, a half-hearted effort from some Remain factions and the country are now suffering the consequences.
 

Johnuk123

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This second referendum petition is now being investigated for fraud with many many thousands of entries coming from proxy servers.

23,000 from N. Korea where it would be impossible to make an entry.
39,000 from the 800 population of Vatican City.

Have a feeling it won't be up much longer.
 

Harbornite

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This second referendum petition is now being investigated for fraud with many many thousands of entries coming from proxy servers.

23,000 from N. Korea where it would be impossible to make an entry.
39,000 from the 800 population of Vatican City.

Have a feeling it won't be up much longer.

Can't they keep it up but remove any dodgy signatures?
 

dgl

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A proxy server in north Korea? Clutching and straws comes to mind.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk
 

Johnuk123

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Can't they keep it up but remove any dodgy signatures?

It was never going anywhere anyway but as soon as this surfaced it was dead in the water.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A proxy server in north Korea? Clutching and straws comes to mind.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...uk_576fbc52e4b0d2571149c95e?5kgm8fmlrrwv78pvi

An MP has revealed the petition calling for a second referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU is being investigated for fraudulent signatures added.
After it was revealed the plea, which has garnered the support of over three million people, was in fact set up by a Leave campaigner before the referendum, reports surfaced of thousands of signatories to it potentially being fake.
Data on the parliamentary petitions website shows over 39,000 of those who have added their names to it come from Vatican City; the city state’s total population is just 800.
The website also purports that 23,000 signatories to the petition were from isolationist and Internet-censored North Korea.
 

VauxhallandI

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There shouldn't be a repeat referendum, if you were too daft not to vote in the first one you don't deserve a second chance.

I do think however if we have one again it needs to be more specific and it needs to be measured differently. I'd consider an option to make it compulsory if workable.
 

ExRes

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I am equally uneasy at the suggestion of another referendum on the same questions. It makes a mockery of our democracy.

The Remain side messed up. If the other side put outright lies on buses and drove them around, why did the Remain side not do the same on ten buses to rebuke the lies?

As some put it nicely, a half-hearted effort from some Remain factions and the country are now suffering the consequences.

The bus and the Farage poster were stupid, someone should have been in a position to veto unsubstantiated claims but, without a single doubt in my mind, the biggest flag waver for Leave was Cameron, he 'led' an appalling campaign and bears full responsibility from day one, his only 'plan' seemed to be to try to scare what he thought were weak sections of society, well tough Dave and I hope Angela is waiting for you by the naughty step with her angriest look
 

Geezertronic

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According to @skydata, only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted in the referendum. Some say the older generation betrayed the younger generation. I say they betrayed themselves
 

VauxhallandI

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If you voted remain and are unhappy zip down this checklist and be comforted.

1 Call every white person who voted "Leave" a racist conveniently ignoring the fact that Europeans are also white. Make sure also that you marginalise and ignore ethnic minority "Leave" voters.

2 Claim that that the enormous turnout wasn't high enough. 72%? It should have been at least 75%. 80%? It should have been at least 85%. Make sure to keep moving the figures to suit your complaining.

3 Make a stupid e-petition demanding another referendum, just like the socialists did when Labour lost the last General Election. Referendums are needed until the correct result is reached.

4 Get over-exited about the economy , even if nothing has really happened. Pretend that that third class degree in Russian-Social economics that you got from the L.S.E. makes you an expert on the world markets.

5 Attack the very idea of democracy because it's only a good thing when it goes the way that you want it to. Working class voters don't know what's good for them but middle class liberals from Islington and Hampstead do. (Expect an outpouring of grief from champagne socialist pin-up girl Emma Thompson any day now).

6 Share memes attacking brexit voters whilst ignoring the unwelcome and uncomfortable realisation that you are in the minority of public opinion (see 5 above).

7 Boldly claim that Scotland will leave the U.K. forgetting - like most Scottish Nationals do - that they can't afford to, the EU probably don't want them and the majority of Scotland voted to leave.

8 Make fun of Boris Johnson whilst secretly hoping that he won't become Prime Minister (for what it's worth I don' think that he will).

9 Like the Labour party (currently starting to implode) learn nothing from the campaign blaming the result on everything and everybody except yourself. Scaremongering and bullying are brilliant tactics, what could possibly go wrong?

10 Curl up in a ball and cry yourself to sleep whilst humming "Ode to Joy".

Thanks for that Phil really useful.

I think Remain voters are vocal as they really care, what seems to be the issue with that?

If the shoe was on the other foot, despite the Leavers saying "we'd just take it on the chin and get on with it" I fear there probably would have been far more of an out cry and one that could turn very nasty.

All in all Leavers amazement at Remainers uproar is a indicator of just how whimsical and shallow some of the votes were. Retainers really care and are deeply worried both economically and for the fabric of society which surely is a good thing?
 

Johnuk123

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A proxy server in north Korea? Clutching and straws comes to mind.

Sent from my Lumia 625 using Tapatalk

I just checked and there are a few although they do tend to come and go by the day.
 

bb21

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According to @skydata, only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted in the referendum. Some say the older generation betrayed the younger generation. I say they betrayed themselves

A combination of both I think.

Hopefully this would be a catalyst to the young getting more involved in politics. After all as some put it quite appropriately, it is their own future they are ignoring, and leaving in the hands of those who don't have as long to live as themselves.

I just checked and there are a few although they do tend to come and go by the day.

It's becoming a bit of a joke, if true.
 

Harbornite

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According to @skydata, only 36% of 18-24 year olds voted in the referendum. Some say the older generation betrayed the younger generation. I say they betrayed themselves

I fall into that age bracket, and I was disappointed to see this result. I wonder if many of the other 64% were happy with posting about the EU on social media and yet didn't bother voting, or were they genuinely not bothered. Food for thought...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I just checked and there are a few although they do tend to come and go by the day.

How do you check? Genuinely curious.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Four months ago I said that whichever side won, it would need to be by a substantial margin as a close result would not solve anything.

Unfortunately that has proved to be the case.

Spectacularly.




The referendum was supposed to settle the subject once and for all; instead the arguments will go on for years - just like they have for the past 20 or 30 years, albeit with a different thrust now.
 

Clip

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How do you check? Genuinely curious.

Look up star venture group or somethign I think thats who supplies the broadband there but for the locals its very limited but is available for govt and other bodies. If you want a tin foil hat.

However its simple to route anything through a vast network of connected PCs to give a false signature of where its coem from.
 

me123

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I voted remain, and I am of course disappointed at the result.

The result happened. It's done. You're out of the EU. Well done. In the last 100 hours, the political and economic scenery has dramatically changed for the worse, but you're out. There's no going back. Europe want rid of us - that much is quite clear from the deliberately polite but nevertheless firm rhetoric from the EU. A repeat referendum would be democratically unacceptable domestically unless there was substantial change in the next two years or so, and it would serve only to weaken the UK's position at the negotiating table. The petition to overturn the result is frankly moronic, and has no democratic basis.

As for Scotland, it'll be no surprise to some that I think a second independence referendum is on the cards, and is democratically justified. I am, of course, a proud supporter of (although not a member of) the SNP, and actively supported independence in the first referendum. Indeed, my view on the matter has not changed.

For those who disagree, I'd like to take you back to the Scottish Independence debate in 2014. One of the big issues for the "No" block back then was the EU (here's an old BBC article about the issues). It was said that a vote for independence risked our place in Europe, and that to preserve it we should vote to remain in the UK. Now, Scotland have voted to remain in the EU by a comfortable margin, whilst England and Wales voted to leave. As a result, our constitutional framework in Scotland has been changed contrary to the will of its people.

I think the EU referendum was conducted in an entirely appropriate manner, and that the way of interpreting the result (50% +1 vote, regardless of where the vote comes from) was correct. But for Scotland (and indeed Northern Ireland) it does raise the question of independence again. Our people wanted to take a different approach, and I think it is justified that the people, knowing what the options are further down the line, have the right to decide whether we keep our ties with rUK, or whether we keep our ties with Europe. Although this is a very different debate to the one we had previously - it's going to be about whether Scotland has ties with London or ties with Brussels. An independent Scotland that is offered to the voters in a potential IndyRef 2 must be a member of the EU for this to be a reasonable debate.

It is quite sensible in my opinion - the vision of Scotland sold to no voters as a member of the UK has changed. There is already a poll demonstrating huge support for an independent Scotland. I think it is therefore reasonable to ask the question to Scots again, as there has now been a huge change in circumstances. Of course, this isn't a simple affair, and we need to know:
- Whether Scotland can remain a member of the EU whilst rUK leaves (I suspect that this is unlikely, but there is a precedent with Denmark/Greenland/Faroe Islands).
- Exactly what the divorce between UK and EU will entail.
- Exactly what is required for an independent Scotland to ascend to the EU (whether we have automatic rights to join as a fragment of the UK, or need to go through the full Article 49 process requiring approval from every member state)
- What we would need to do to join the EU - I suspect that joining the Euro at the very least would be non-negotiable, and indeed preferable in the new circumstances.

This will all become clearer as the Scottish Government continue in their discussions with European ministers.

Sadly, in this debate, people in Scotland have seen England & Wales in a very nasty light. The role that blatant xenophobia and racism has played in this campaign has not gone unnoticed by us, and I think that will serve only to strengthen support for independence further. Scotland is continuing to drift politically further apart from the rest of the UK. And, as far as I'm concerned, long may it continue. The tone of this campaign has made me throughly ashamed to be British.
 

Antman

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Four months ago I said that whichever side won, it would need to be by a substantial margin as a close result would not solve anything.

Unfortunately that has proved to be the case.

Spectacularly.




The referendum was supposed to settle the subject once and for all; instead the arguments will go on for years - just like they have for the past 20 or 30 years, albeit with a different thrust now.

Whichever way it went it was inevitably going to be close.
 

Mag_seven

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What Nicola Sturgeon needs to realise is that the question on the ballot paper was should the UK stay/leave the EU not should Scotland (or any other part of the UK) stay/leave the EU. Scotland voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 so must accept the will of the UK. This constant sense of grievance from the SNP is getting tiring - Sturgeon should just get on with the job governing Scotland and stop this talk of new referendums.
 

VauxhallandI

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What Nicola Sturgeon needs to realise is that the question on the ballot paper was should the UK stay/leave the EU not should Scotland (or any other part of the UK) stay/leave the EU. Scotland voted to stay part of the UK in 2014 so must accept the will of the UK. This constant sense of grievance from the SNP is getting tiring - Sturgeon should just get on with the job governing Scotland and stop this talk of new referendums.

Did you read any of Me123's post above?

Sorry you're getting tired of it, if you'd only have let the people know I'm sure they would have stopped for you...
 

yorksrob

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Yes indeed. I agree that the Scots have an absolute right to another referendum. This is a material change to their circumstances.
 
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