Should we have another referendum?

[backontrack]

Yes? No?

 

[455driver]

No!
Why?

 

[DaleCooper]

Only if more than 50% vote for one.

 

[Harbornite]

Yes, especially for the EU vote. People need to be educated about what the EU actually is. It's a pity that certain people are allowed to vote, but the alternatives to democracy are not good at all.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Yes, especially for the EU vote. People need to be educated about what the EU actually is. It's a pity that certain people are allowed to vote, but the alternatives to democracy are not good at all.

Indeed this democracy thing is a nuisance that gets in the way of how the decent chaps want to organise the uneducated masses.

 

[Johnuk123]

Yes, especially for the EU vote. People need to be educated about what the EU actually is. It's a pity that certain people are allowed to vote, but the alternatives to democracy are not good at all.

Hold on a bit you're advocating certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote as they aren't clever enough to understand.

I don't know how old you are but I'll guess you're young so I'll have to give you the benefit of youthful ignorance.

 

[EM2]

No for the EU (and I say this as a Remain voter).
If people who voted Leave did not fully (or even partly) understand the consequences of leaving the EU, well they've learned a very hard lesson.

Yes for Scotland (although I have no vote).

 

[Harbornite]

Hold on a bit you're advocating certain people shouldn't be allowed to vote as they aren't clever enough to understand.

I don't know how old you are but I'll guess you're young so I'll have to give you the benefit of youthful ignorance.

No, I'm saying that in an ideal world and it wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. In a truly ideal world, 16 and 17 year old would be able to vote because some of them show more intelligence than older voters. I assume you didn't read the bit where I said that democracy is a good thing.
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Indeed this democracy thing is a nuisance that gets in the way of how the decent chaps want to organise the uneducated masses.

Did I say democracy was a bad thing? No, so get your facts straight. I just think that people should be sufficiently educated on the issue at hand before casting an uninformed vote that could jeopardize the economy. Of course I'm not realistically advocating a ban on people voting (as if you fell for that :roll. To the contrary, I think that the voting age should be lowered to 16.

 

[backontrack]

Voting age should be lowered to 15 or 14.

 

[DaleCooper]

I'm against referendums on principle, we pay MPs good money to make those decisions. Referendums are like having a dog and barking yourself.

 

[Johnuk123]

No, I'm saying that in an ideal world and it wasn't supposed to be taken seriously. In a truly ideal world, 16 and 17 year old would be able to vote because some of them show more intelligence than older voters. I assume you didn't read the bit where I said that democracy is a good thing.

Well you could take it further because plenty of 14 and 15 yr olds are far more sensible than 16 and 17 yr olds, in fact a primary schoolchildren
are as well.

You have to have a cut off somewhere and I think 21 would be better but 18 is ok.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Do you know any primary schoolchildren, specifically on this forum?

 

[Harbornite]

Well you could take it further because plenty of 14 and 15 yr olds are far more sensible than 16 and 17 yr olds, in fact a primary schoolchildren
are as well.

You have to have a cut off somewhere and I think 21 would be better but 18 is ok.

16 is a good limit, no one is suggesting that primary school children should have to vote and this isn't a realistic suggestion. Either way, I don't see the reason for raising it to 21, there's no logic behind that when you consider that 16 year olds can get married and join the army. Quite frankly I don't know how you can advocate raising the vote age to 21 despite your allegiance to democracy. Do you think that teenagers can't have a say in who runs the country or whether or not we should leave the EU?

 

[DaleCooper]

Maybe. Either way, I don't see the reason for raising it to 21, there's no logic behind that when you consider that 16 year olds can get married and join the army.

In fact if a 16 year old can pay tax they should get a vote, no taxation without representation. What about a compromise whereby an under 18 vote counts as half a vote? I'm not being entirely flippant.

 

[muz379]

I voted remain but currently do not support the petition for another referendum . I agree with people saying that a lot of misinformation was spread about before this referendum but the job of the remain side was to address this and it clearly failed . People will always make misinformed choices at elections . I see nothing good coming of either another referendum ignoring this one . Or the calls that one MP has made for parliament to ignore the referendum . Its only going to further perpetuate the swing to the right that this referendum has highlighted . If voting does not work people will turn to voting for even more extreme right parties , and violence

The only way I would support a new referendum is if something manifestly changed . This is never going to happen but if the EU offered us significant concessions on free movements , the cap , our contribution etc etc then I may support a second referendum .

If anything if we have a second referendum it seems obvious to me that all the other 27 members are going to do is meet and agree that it is unfair that we have concessions on the Euro , Schengen and a massive rebate . So even if a second referendum was to take place I think a lot of the 48% would shift sides if the possibility of us having to accept the Euro and the end of Schengen becomes real . Or if our contribution went up . I know on the issues of Schengen and the Euro I would revisit my position .

As for the Scottish one , it seems blindingly obvious that the people of Scotland were told to remain in the UK to guarantee EU membership . As that has now crumbled before their very eyes and we are leaving against their wishes as Sturgeon has said there has been a significant material change to the union . To be fair she did warn before this , and even tried to get Cameron to agree to a 4 way lock in the referendum so that only if all 4 nations voted to leave could we leave . So this new call for a Scottish independence referendum should come as no shock to anybody. I just hope for her sake she can comfortably win it

 

[Harbornite]

In fact if a 16 year old can pay tax they should get a vote, no taxation without representation. What about a compromise whereby an under 18 vote counts as half a vote? I'm not being entirely flippant.

No. 16 and above should all have full votes, I ca't see any logic behind half votes. I'll say in the politest way possible that the suggestion of half-votes is pretty bad. I agree with the rest of your post.

 

[backontrack]

In fact if a 16 year old can pay tax they should get a vote, no taxation without representation.

Well said that man. You're flippant most of the time, but when you're not you can say it better than a lot of people.

14 and 15-year olds should get the vote. It's more our future than it is an 87-year old's, and we are (for the most part) responsible enough. Votes for 14 and 15-year olds.

 

[Howardh]

I'm against referendums on principle, we pay MPs good money to make those decisions. Referendums are like having a dog and barking yourself.

Basically, you fill a house with 650 elected representatives to act on your behalf, on your (but in reality their) best interests, and every so often you have the power to remove them.

Having a referendum is a bit like replacing them with 650 Mrs Duffy's.
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Well said that man. You're flippant most of the time, but when you're not you can say it better than a lot of people.

14 and 15-year olds should get the vote. It's more our future than it is an 87-year old's, and we are (for the most part) responsible enough. Votes for 14 and 15-year olds.

I'm fifty-cough, and voted in, and in future I would be more than happy to not vote for something which is future-orientated, as long as something which would affect me directly (pensions? health care??) I get a larger say. Eg, I don't want an 18-yr-old to vote for a lower pension...sort of thing.

 

[EM2]

You have to have a cut off somewhere and I think 21 would be better but 18 is ok.

Even though sixteen year olds can marry, have jobs (including in the Forces) and pay tax?

 

[Howardh]

Poll;

Should I have another beer?

Yes
No
Wine

 

[Cundy66]

I don't think we should have another vote. If it was the other way around then Remain supporters would tell us Leave voters to get on with it and I would personally accept the decision, I think we should move on and get on with it. Did you vote for the people making decisions no did I no that is one reason I voted leave sorry to upset people but it's fact the people who voted leave have had enough and this is democracy and overruling it would not make it democratic. I didn't cry out for another election after Cameron got elected. It's life let's get on with it and let's make the best of this chance we now have.

 

[Howardh]

You have to have a cut off somewhere and I think 21 would be better but 18 is ok.

If someone cut me off at 18, never mind 21, I'd have had something to say....

 

[krus_aragon]

No for the EU (and I say this as a Remain voter).
If people who voted Leave did not fully (or even partly) understand the consequences of leaving the EU, well they've learned a very hard lesson.

Yes for Scotland (although I have no vote).

I am of the same opinion, with one exception.

The only situation I can advocate a second EU referendum is as a result of (pre-)article 50 negotiations, asking "do you want to stay or take this alternative settlement". Dafydd Wigley has advocated this today. (BBC Cymru article in Welsh)

Rerunning the exact same referendum is pointless, unless there's been a "significant material change". Who said that? Oh yes, Nicola Sturgeon. She's quite entitled to be laying the groundwork for a second Scottish referendum in the light of Thursday's vote.

 

[Railops]

So we have a second referendum and Remain win 52/48 what happens then ?

 

[Antman]

It's about as logical as Northern Ireland wanting this afternoons game against Wales replayed because it didn't go there way!

 

[NoMorePacers]

This referendum should have been done differently. A side should only have won if they had a majority of more than 10%. Anything less than that, like leave winning by less than 2%, should spark a second referendum.

 

[EM2]

So we have a second referendum and Remain win 52/48 what happens then ?

Best of three?

 

[Howardh]

So we have a second referendum and Remain win 52/48 what happens then ?

Duckworth/Lewis. Should have been used to cover all the Londoners that couldn't vote due to all the cancelled trains!

 

[bb21]

You have to have a cut off somewhere and I think 21 would be better but 18 is ok.

So 16 year olds should contribute to society (if working) but not given a say on how it's run?

What makes 21 a better cut-off than 18?

 

[Howardh]

It's about as logical as Northern Ireland wanting this afternoons game against Wales replayed because it didn't go there way!

In a hypothetical game, if it turns out the ref had been "bought" and therefore cheated, would the team have the right to a replay?