Journey Check Reasons

[PHILIPE]

I'm sure there's been a thread before but can't find it. ATW Journey Check tonight states 2252 Birmingham to Crewe (via Stafford) will be diverted via Shrewsbury and will not call at Stafford. This is under investigation is quoted rather than a specific reason. Surely it's clear cut enough when the line between Wolverhampton and Stafford will be closed until the end of the day due to a broken down train. This according to NRE site.

 

[TheManBehind]

In many cases, it could well be that the Info Controller picked the wrong reason in a rush, or has simply forgotten to update it - it's a drop-down list as the reasons are there to match with CIS spoken announcements in Darwin, so not hard! I've cancelled many a train for no catering crew...!

 

[45107]

Or it could be that none of the 'drop down list' are relevant and 'under investigation' is the best fit.

 

[TheManBehind]

Well quite, but generally if it's remotely connected to the bigger incident, we'll bung it under that! There's well over 100 reasons now to chose from (although a large chunk are "earlier today" "near the railway" "yesterday" variations). Hard not to find the one you want these days

 

[PHILIPE]

One that is used now is "Due to a fault on THIS train". This is not always correct as it can appear if it;s another train has the fault causing a reactionary delay.

 

[PHILIPE]

Only used GWR & ATW Journey Check, but train alterations contain remark (next 4 hours only). Any ideas if this is a new policy or not.

 

[Welshman]

Only used GWR & ATW Journey Check, but train alterations contain remark (next 4 hours only). Any ideas if this is a new policy or not.

It's also used on Virgin West Coast Journey Check, but their's is a cheaper crystal ball with a smaller range, and only extends to two hours.

Interesting one on ATW this morning [obviously imputed in error] -

"The 0805 Holyhead-Cardiff will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3. This is because of a shortage of train drivers."

I never realised they needed one for each coach.

 

[plymothian]

..or there wasn't a driver available to bring and make an attachment.

 

[PHILIPE]

It's also used on Virgin West Coast Journey Check, but their's is a cheaper crystal ball with a smaller range, and only extends to two hours.

Interesting one on ATW this morning [obviously imputed in error] -

"The 0805 Holyhead-Cardiff will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3. This is because of a shortage of train drivers."

I never realised they needed one for each coach.

Although nothing has been posted this morning, the Manchester Paupers WAG is formed of 3 carriages which indicates a 175/1 working it. The LHCS has recently been missing on a frequent basis due to shortage of drivers with traction knowledge.
Journey Check shows the root cause so this indicates a 3 Car unit had to be sacrificed from this train to cover up the LHCS and with 3 Cars.
Re the 4 hour change, ATW would show cancellations/part cancellations for the next day due to traincrew shortages but this will have been thrown out of the window now
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Journey Checks not now showing the next 4 hour report and known items being reported for the rest of the day. The 4 hour comment appeared yesterday after the ATW Journey Check had been down.

 

[trainophile]

It's also used on Virgin West Coast Journey Check, but their's is a cheaper crystal ball with a smaller range, and only extends to two hours.

Interesting one on ATW this morning [obviously imputed in error] -

"The 0805 Holyhead-Cardiff will be formed of 2 coaches instead of 3. This is because of a shortage of train drivers."

I never realised they needed one for each coach.

I have seen the lack of on board catering (i.e. trolley) being put down to a lack of train drivers. Multi-tasking or what?

 

[Welshman]

Although nothing has been posted this morning, the Manchester Paupers WAG is formed of 3 carriages which indicates a 175/1 working it. The LHCS has recently been missing on a frequent basis due to shortage of drivers with traction knowledge.
Journey Check shows the root cause so this indicates a 3 Car unit had to be sacrificed from this train to cover up the LHCS and with 3 Cars.
Re the 4 hour change, ATW would show cancellations/part cancellations for the next day due to traincrew shortages but this will have been thrown out of the window now

I take my hat off to you for your explanation as to why a driver shortage meant the 175/1 from Holyhead had to be a 175/0.

It does, however, require a certain "inside" knowledge and the ingenuity of Hercule Poirot.

Qualities the average passenger, checking the train situation, may not necessarily possess

 

[PHILIPE]

I take my hat off to you for your explanation as to why a driver shortage meant the 175/1 from Holyhead had to be a 175/0.

It does, however, require a certain "inside" knowledge and the ingenuity of Hercule Poirot.

Qualities the average passenger, checking the train situation, may not necessarily possess

Could have been a 158 or even 150, not necessarily 175/0

 

[TheManBehind]

Only used GWR & ATW Journey Check, but train alterations contain remark (next 4 hours only). Any ideas if this is a new policy or not.

If there are lots of alterations (i.e. the list would make finding trains difficult or near-impossible) then JourneyCheck has a feature to limit the viewing window to a certain time ahead. We use it during major incidents or if there's significant shortage of stock on diagrams.

It's used largely on an ad-hoc basis - either it will be changed back soon, or someone forgot to! Largely TOCs believe that the earlier y'all know, the longer you have to make a decision about your journey.

 

[PHILIPE]

If there are lots of alterations (i.e. the list would make finding trains difficult or near-impossible) then JourneyCheck has a feature to limit the viewing window to a certain time ahead. We use it during major incidents or if there's significant shortage of stock on diagrams.

It's used largely on an ad-hoc basis - either it will be changed back soon, or someone forgot to! Largely TOCs believe that the earlier y'all know, the longer you have to make a decision about your journey.

There was no major disruption in this case. I think, perhaps, a problem after the site was down.

 

[TheManBehind]

There was no major disruption in this case. I think, perhaps, a problem after the site was down.

Sounds like someone forgot - it's infinite now!

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW Journey Check showing multiple trains along Marches and North Wales Coast today as:-

"Reported full and standing. This is due to overcrowding".

I thought this was blatantly obvious.

 

[headshot119]

ATW Journey Check showing multiple trains along Marches and North Wales Coast today as:-

"Reported full and standing. This is due to overcrowding".

I thought this was blatantly obvious.

Well not it isn't obvious!

"This is due to overcrowding" to me means they weren't expecting this many people. On the other hand the reason could be "This is due to earlier cancelled trains" or "This is due to an event" etc.

 

[trainophile]

All I can see on ATW's journey check page is masses of disruption due to a broken down freight train.

We haven't had one of those for some time!

Edit: Apologies, I see there is another thread about this.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW overcrowding even got a mention on NRE Service Disruption site. Problems on trains to and from Chester, especially, along the North Wales Coast, Crewe, Manchester & Shrewsbury due Chester Races. Delays of up to 20mins can be expected "packing 'em in". Others left behind at stations. Busses sourced to help out between Wrexham and Chester. Obviously Twitter being bombarded with complaints accusing ATW of doing nothing in connection with Chester. Usual reply, all units out working. If possible, ATW, unlike Northern (although strengthening done for Sunderland Airshow) do provide additional capacity when possible, but of course, have to agree nothing
can always be done. Before anybody suggests using the LHCS, they are too stretched for traincrews.

This type of overcrowding, however, is taking place on a daily basis and ATW say that no more stock will be available until electrification kicks in. How many years, and the rest with slippages ? People ask why they should have to pay the fares they do to travel in "cattle truck conditions". ATW - "Nothing to do with us - DFT allocate trains". ATW wouldn't pay for anything over and above their franchise requirement. The franchise finishes in 2018 but how the map will look after that is a mystery at the moment (already discussed elsewhere on the Forum) due to Cross border/devolutuion matters. The franchise was let in 2003 and stck allocated on a "no growth" basis. How the DFT can foul up.
In any normal business, the bosses would do something about a recurring problem, but frankly, I can't see what can be done so, if any suggestions, except the old chestnut of more LHCS which won't happen, could provide a basis for discussion.

 

[Parallel]

I agree there's not much ATW can do in the short term regarding obtaining more rolling stock to deal with overcrowding. They could take on more pacers temporarily when they are released by GWR/Northern for use on the Valleys/local routes around Cardiff - with more 150s available for strengthening elsewhere. Or more LHCSs but I can't see that happening. The no growth model has really caused issues at this end of the franchise period.

 

[trainophile]

1430 Man Picc to Milford Haven was cancelled from Crewe today due to a shortage of drivers.

At least we were informed before boarding at Manchester, but we were told to travel to Crewe on it, and wait there for the 1530 ex-MAN to take us the rest of the way. Some of us gathered around the information booth decided we would rather wait at MAN, because by the time the next one reached Crewe it would probably be packed.

As it happened it was three coaches so not too bad, although there seemed to be a few standing in the vestibules, combined with a couple of buggies and bikes.

I wonder if any additional drivers are in the scheme of things.

 

[PHILIPE]

1430 Man Picc to Milford Haven was cancelled from Crewe today due to a shortage of drivers.

At least we were informed before boarding at Manchester, but we were told to travel to Crewe on it, and wait there for the 1530 ex-MAN to take us the rest of the way. Some of us gathered around the information booth decided we would rather wait at MAN, because by the time the next one reached Crewe it would probably be packed.

As it happened it was three coaches so not too bad, although there seemed to be a few standing in the vestibules, combined with a couple of buggies and bikes.

I wonder if any additional drivers are in the scheme of things.

There seem to be a lot of cancellations on the Cambrian and HOW Line recently

I think it is because there is some dispute between Drivers Unions and ATW resulting no RDW
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ATW Journey Check today showing masses of cancellations, delays and trains cut short due to shortage of drivers. A new route affected this time is between Cardiff and Cheltenham, previously reliable..

 

[headshot119]

15:13 Cardiff Central to Llanelli due 16:38
Will be formed of 1 coach.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

16:45 Llanelli to Chester due 21:08
Will be formed of 1 coach.
This is due to a shortage of train drivers.

Let's see if the 153 makes it all the way to Chester

 

[PHILIPE]

Let's see if the 153 makes it all the way to Chester

Swapped out at Cardiff for 175/1
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ATW don't want us to know what trains are disrupted today. Journey Check reports nothing about them. They have altered the schedules in advance and VARs are appearing in RTT and Cancellations not at all. Example:-

STP 1V99 1650 Holyhead to Llandudno Jn
1T99 1830 Chester to Cardiff Cen

In other words 1650 Holyhead to Cardiff not running between Llandudno Jn and Chester
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A lengthy list now showing on Journey Check. Marches, North Wales coast and Cambrian particularly affected. I wondered if by including STP Timetable alterations was a way of avoiding a financial penalty for cancelling.
I did Tweet ATW on the issue.

 

[trainophile]

Swapped out at Cardiff for 175/1
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


ATW don't want us to know what trains are disrupted today. Journey Check reports nothing about them. They have altered the schedules in advance and VARs are appearing in RTT and Cancellations not at all. Example:-

STP 1V99 1650 Holyhead to Llandudno Jn
1T99 1830 Chester to Cardiff Cen

In other words 1650 Holyhead to Cardiff not running between Llandudno Jn and Chester
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



A lengthy list now showing on Journey Check. Marches, North Wales coast and Cambrian particularly affected. I wondered if by including STP Timetable alterations was a way of avoiding a financial penalty for cancelling.
I did Tweet ATW on the issue.

Let us know if you get a reply. They must be rather embarrassed about the situation by now.

 

[PHILIPE]

Let us know if you get a reply. They must be rather embarrassed about the situation by now.

Twitter chap couldn't really grasp what I was getting at and was answering non-existent questions. However, all posted on Journey Check now.

 

[Parallel]

One thing that annoys me with disruptions being reported on Journey Check is that many don't. GWR have trains that are running 30 - 40+ mins late and don't get a mention, yet minor disruptions from London Paddington seem to get listed in abundance!

An example of this was the 16:41 Gloucester - Weymouth tonight. Left the first stop 20 down and was nearly 40 late leaving Yeovil Pen Mill and there was nothing listed on journey check.

Other delayed trains (20+ mins late) with seemingly no mention tonight were the 16:08 Weymouth - Great Malvern and 17:24 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour, and they're only getting a mention because I saw it in person!

Does it just depend which trains are reported to the team that manage journeycheck?

 

[PHILIPE]

New English language on Journey Check tonight relating to cancellation of 2228 Chester to Wolverhampton (train crew shortages and last train of the day):-

We regret unable to RECRUIT Road Transport
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Again no Road transport available to cover 2 incidents tonight:-

(1) Lines blocked at Clarbeston Rd due to car coming through overbridge and landing on the tracks.

(2) Man fell from bridge onto the Shrewsbury to Crewe line at Ditherington, just north of Shrewsbury station. In this case trains diverted via Wrexham.

 

[trainophile]

New English language on Journey Check tonight relating to cancellation of 2228 Chester to Wolverhampton (train crew shortages and last train of the day):-

We regret unable to RECRUIT Road Transport

That will have cost them a packet in taxis/hotels then, if it was the last service of the day.

 

[TheManBehind]

One thing that annoys me with disruptions being reported on Journey Check is that many don't. GWR have trains that are running 30 - 40+ mins late and don't get a mention, yet minor disruptions from London Paddington seem to get listed in abundance!

An example of this was the 16:41 Gloucester - Weymouth tonight. Left the first stop 20 down and was nearly 40 late leaving Yeovil Pen Mill and there was nothing listed on journey check.

Other delayed trains (20+ mins late) with seemingly no mention tonight were the 16:08 Weymouth - Great Malvern and 17:24 Cardiff Central - Portsmouth Harbour, and they're only getting a mention because I saw it in person!

Does it just depend which trains are reported to the team that manage journeycheck?

For me, it will depend - if there is an ongoing incident that they've been delayed by they won't necessarily be put up onto JC as it's covered by the umbrella incident - if they've been delayed by something outside of that (a one-off event such as inspecting the line or waiting for traincrew) then I'll put up a JC notice for any 10m delays or greater (can't speak for other TOCs, of course, but it may provide some insight).

Folks managing Tyrell/JC will normally have CCF or P2 to monitor train performance themselves.