Paddington derailment 16/06/16

[greaterwest]

"Between Paddington and Reading"? Why can't these announcements ever actually state AT somewhere?! How much closer to Paddington did it have to be to qualify?

Between London Paddington and Acton Main Line?

 

[Deepgreen]

Between London Paddington and Acton Main Line?

My point was that it didn't need to be described as being "between" anywhere - it was squarely AT Paddington.

 

[greaterwest]

My point was that it didn't need to be described as being "between" anywhere - it was squarely AT Paddington.

Indeed, though I don't often see "at" used, rather "between" used in media by TOCs.

"at" tends to be in the automated announcements (though recently I heard one on the North Downs citing "signalling problems between Crowthorne and Guildford")

 

[gavin]

Another image of the derailed train

 

[Deepgreen]

Indeed, though I don't often see "at" used, rather "between" used in media by TOCs.

"at" tends to be in the automated announcements (though recently I heard one on the North Downs citing "signalling problems between Crowthorne and Guildford")

Again - my very point.

 

[pdeaves]

It rather looks as if they had to switch off the electrical power over a wide area.

Quite right. The majority of reactionary disruption was because of stranded electric trains.

 

[smiffy9373]

A pair of stranded HEX units about to be towed from platform 6 by 57603 to OOC.

 

[Chris M]

Probably because it would cost more and as it happens so rarely they'll take the chance.

How often do trap points actually derail trains?
I'm not in the industry and so don't know all the details but the last instance I can recall was a couple of years ago on the Great Central.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Quite right. The majority of reactionary disruption was because of stranded electric trains.

4 of them - between Ladbroke Grove and Southall East. All had passengers on which had to be detrained safely...

 

[Deepgreen]

How often do trap points actually derail trains?
I'm not in the industry and so don't know all the details but the last instance I can recall was a couple of years ago on the Great Central.

It's pretty sporadic - there was one at Brighton depot a couple of weeks ago. Incidents involving the main line such as at Paddington are considerably rarer than in sidings/depots.

 

[D1009]

There are probably many examples of trap points across the network where anything running through them at any speed could cause consequences such as this. Someone posted a photograph of those at Castle Cary up thread proving this.

 

[BestWestern]

The Exeter Express and Echo has a picture of the front of the Turbo almost embedded in the gantry - how long are the points to this through road? I know a Turbo can shift but well, not preferably off the rails. Looking at the damage, This'll probably end up as the first turbo to return in GWR colours.

And I agree with Ainsworth, a situation I would not like to have been in. A Spad is one thing, going into the gantry is another.

http://m.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk...n-derails/story-29412710-detail/story.html???

The article states several time that this was a 'Westcountry' train and indeed even an 'Intercity'. People would be impressed if one of those rolled in to form a Penzance; Pullman restaurant anyone?!

 

[edwin_m]

A relevant statement has appeared on the RAIB website in the context of a different accident:

This accident demonstrates the importance of:
•...
•assessing the risks of using trap points to protect lines and why assessments should include an examination of the potential consequences of derailing, such as the possibility of vehicles fouling running lines or encountering other hazards

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...le-near-bury-greater-manchester-22-march-2016

However, it appears from posts on another forum that the trap point is actually alongside the previous OLE support, so appears to be positioned (by accident or design) to give the maximum distance between the derail and striking the next support. This indicates that the risk has been minimised but the train was running fast enough to travel that distance while derailed.

 

[2000]

How often do trap points actually derail trains?
I'm not in the industry and so don't know all the details but the last instance I can recall was a couple of years ago on the Great Central.

Twice on the last few months on the underground. Central line very recently and a few months ago on the W&C.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Being as the problem is at Paddington, why are so many services cancelled at the western ends of the routes? Why for example, are the 6.58 & 7.58 from Swansea cancelled? Surely these HST’s are stabled at Swansea and could have run as far as Reading before returning west? (That would also have enabled people to reach the Heathrow bus link).

The aforementioned services would provide for peak time commuting into Cardiff. Now I suppose, this has had a knock on effect for ATW as everybody tries to cram into their 2 & 3 coach units.

Whilst I realise that Paddington is the main terminal, the world does exist west of Reading!

I totally agree. When the Up sleeper came off the road approaching Paddn (mid 1980s), I ran almost the entire Class 1 service from Ealing Broadway the same afternoon. It's pitiful these days the lack of ambition to provide a service by today's railway industry.

 

[Rich McLean]

The only thing I imagine the RAIB being interested is the damage caused to infrastructure by the derailed train, whether consideration was given to the possible consequences of a train being derailed at the trap points and if there could be risk of injury to people should an incident occur. What procedures are in place to ensure that structures erected around catch points may create a risk etc.

There are other factors to consider which lead to the cause of the accident, which the RAIB will also want to look at. I have been informed of a possible big factor that hasn't been mentioned but I am keeping that one to myself, as it will no doubt be a major part of investigations.

 

[Juniper Driver]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36555082

Don't know if this has been posted as I can hardly read the forum with the resolution on my laptop as my main computer is down.

This makes quite a statement here.Why the hell do they report is as run a red signal? So bloody irritating.

Apologies if this has already been posted.Also not the best time for SWT with Ascot week to contend with also.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are Turbo cabs a metal shell with an outer skin of fibreglass (like how Turbostars cabs are)?

 

[AndyPJG]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36555082

Don't know if this has been posted as I can hardly read the forum with the resolution on my laptop as my main computer is down.

This makes quite a statement here.Why the hell do they report is as run a red signal? So bloody irritating.

Apologies if this has already been posted.Also not the best time for SWT with Ascot week to contend with also.

See link in post#14, BBC just quoting NR Press Office tweet:-

Network Rail on Twitter saying the train passed a red signal.

https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/743514804606894082

 

[daikilo]

All RAIB need to do is update their safety digest on trap points, which would be a good thing as the first attempt certainly lacks concrete guidance on what is good (it is clear on one concept that is bad).

That said, just how much free space is reasonable beyond trap points on a siding.

 

[Zoidberg]

National Rail Enq reports disruption until end of service tomorrow.

The Tweet is at https://mobile.twitter.com/nationalrailenq/status/743899833363238912

#LondonPaddington - Major disruption at London Paddington until end of service Saturday 18 June
17 Jun 2016, 21:15:15

 

[LeylandLen]

Looking at the pic of the derailed 165 in #94, it seems to me that it would have been travelling at good speed to sustain that damage to the adjacent OHLE structure . Surely there must be a speed limit on the approach to Paddington ? I assume its routine to breath test any driver involved in such an accident? If so , would it be up to BTP ?

 

[DarloRich]

I assume its routine to breath test any driver involved in such an accident? If so , would it be up to BTP ?

No - TOC health care provider

 

[CockneySparrow]

View attachment 27079

Screenshot from OpenTrainTimes. The points were not set correctly, by the look of things, and the reports say that some of the overhead line has come down! Not good at all...

If that is the case are we looking at a SPAD, am I right in thinking that if the points are not set correct you are unable to change the signal before to green
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Announcements at Reading seem to be a mix of "Due to a derailed Train" and "A Problem under Imvestigation". Either way nothing's leaving heading Eastwards into Paddington at the moment.

A derailed train does not look good to the public, might be that an employee got told to change to the latter by management

 

[Zoidberg]

If that is the case are we looking at a SPAD ...

Yes, as first indicated in post #14.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Looking at the pic of the derailed 165 in #94, it seems to me that it would have been travelling at good speed to sustain that damage to the adjacent OHLE structure . Surely there must be a speed limit on the approach to Paddington ? I assume its routine to breath test any driver involved in such an accident? If so , would it be up to BTP ?

25mph and the driver would have been med screened (test for drink and drugs) before he went home.

 

[pdeaves]

It's pretty sporadic - there was one at Brighton depot a couple of weeks ago. Incidents involving the main line such as at Paddington are considerably rarer than in sidings/depots.

2 June. Most such derailments pass unnoticed because the train just lands on the ballast and gets rerailed. The Paddington incident was exceptional in being simultaneously in the 'public eye' and the train hitting and damaging something.

 

[Sacro]

If that is the case are we looking at a SPAD, am I right in thinking that if the points are not set correct you are unable to change the signal before to green

Yes, the trap points must be proven reverse and the points from line 1 to platform 1/2 must be proven normal before the signal can show white.

Signal wouldn't show green as it's into a terminal platform, yellow at best, but it's a shunt signal from the link line.

25mph limit, 40mph in the platforms.

 

[Scott M]

How could such a SPAD occur, when drivers get visual/auditory warnings of signals?

 

[sonic2009]

Amended timetable now in use until end of service on Sunday.