Are GTR finished?

[Abpj17]

I think the majority of the disruption so far has been at weekends. It seems to take quite a while for the press to notice things that only happen at weekends, unfortunately. Though I imagine after this past weekend that someone will have it brought to their attention soon.

I'd assert there is more disruption in rush hour. At the weekends, the 'disruption' is usually planned and you can navigate around it to varying degrees.

Certainly on Thameslink, it's the persistent issues during the week, particularly rush hour and after which are the most disruptive and there is no way to avoid it if you need to get home from work.

Tonight's trains were absolutely awful - I counted one train in two hours (instead of 8) for my service. This was due to the DOO/guard issue on the Sutton loop I believe and additional issues due to trespassers on the line for a couple of hours.

 

[theageofthetra]

Heard from a driver announcement that there was a trespasser and some brain dead t#rd surfing on a freight train. Not really their fault but lack of info on National Rail enq was poor.

 

[LLivery]

can see refranchising early in 2018/19 when the Thameslink core stuff is complete and all 700s are in service.... or Government interference before then (like with East Coast).

A Tory government will never do an East Coast, it would just destroy their anti-nationalisation stance. The most you'll get is another NXEA scenario but with Govia still able to bid for anything they want from day one.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

A very special peak this evening - 2 hours from STP via LUT to SAC.

Absolutely nothing on the boards for over 45 mins at LUT heading south - horrible gaps to 45 mins + northbound , so did the old trick of getting the 2000 Corby to LUT in the hope of something south - eventually got the 2134 at 2109 , in between nothing in either direction.

Never seen such gaps before outwith a blizzard or similar - information of RTT usually good - but not this time. Apart from barrier staff - there was zero information and zero announcements.

 

[jon0844]

RTT was failing to show cancelled trains on the GN line again on Sunday evening. Obviously a feed problem somewhere along the line (sic).

 

[MikeWM]

I'd assert there is more disruption in rush hour. At the weekends, the 'disruption' is usually planned and you can navigate around it to varying degrees.

Certainly on Thameslink, it's the persistent issues during the week, particularly rush hour and after which are the most disruptive and there is no way to avoid it if you need to get home from work.

Well, I'm talking sbout the GN side of things. I'm not a regular TL user so can't fairly comment, but the TL side always appeared problematic in FCC days too. Over on the GN side things usually worked ok. (which partly explains the reluctance of many who use GN regularly to be folded into Thamleslink from 2018 - now I think about it, maybe this is the cunning plan, to make the GN service as poor as the TL one in plenty of time so 2018 doesn't surprise us overnight ).

 

[jon0844]

The refresh of the 365s has all been part of an ongoing process to reduce our expectations!

 

[MikeWM]

The refresh of the 365s has all been part of an ongoing process to reduce our expectations!

Have to agree there, I'm always pleased when an un-refurbished one shows up, which doesn't seem the way round things ought to be... (though nowadays I'm reasonably pleased it one shows up at all )

 

[Abpj17]

A very special peak this evening - 2 hours from SPX via LTN to SAC.

Absolutely nothing on the boards for over 45 mins at LTN heading south - horrible gaps to 45 mins + northbound , so did the old trick of getting the 2000 Corby to LTN in the hope of something south - eventually got the 2134 at 2109 , in between nothing in either direction.

Never seen such gaps before outwith a blizzard or similar - information of RTT usually good - but not this time. Apart from barrier staff - there was zero information and zero announcements.

I had a dr's appt at LBG and unfortunately just left as the last trains left Blackfriars for nearly two hours. There was a train heading to St A, but that's pretty useless if you have to wait an hr there for anything further north. I need the same trick and got the 2000 to Corby (getting off at Luton), and got a taxi from there to Leagrave (home) so journey time was actually ok. I avoided any and all Thameslink platforms (and therefore staff) - waiting around for an hour or two for what I suspected would be a packed train wasn't high on list of ways to spend evening. A very delayed train to St A left St P at 19:39 which I suspect you just missed.

RTT for me basically just said everything was cancelled.

 

[Hadders]

The refresh of the 365s has all been part of an ongoing process to reduce our expectations!

Quite! We're having our expectations lowered before the introduction of the 700s.

 

[DelayRepay]

Last night was atrocious. I doubt the trespasser helped but I thought that was in the afternoon so should have been back to normal by the mid-evening... GTR do seem much worse at recovering from disruption that FCC were.

Oh dear:

Thameslink ‏@TLRailUK 4h4 hours ago
01:40 Bedford to Three Bridges has been train cancelled. Unfortunately the bus arranged to cover the service has broken down at Bedford. Ken

 

[jon0844]

A single bus? I thought trains through the night were usually pretty well loaded?

Would that have been sufficient, or have the problems made people decide not to travel on their trains?

 

[Searle]

Im surprised the passengers havent protested.

There's apparently a protest at Brighton station at 6:30pm tonight, but who knows if it will actually get off the ground. The ironic thing is that most of the people there will just have commuted from London using Southern

 

[455driver]

I can see why many want to see the end of GTR however if it happened right now wouldn't it simply be be a major invititation to some in the unions nationally to hugely ramp up any future industrial action of all kinds until their franchise got stripped ? ,

So you still consider this dispute the unions fault! :roll:
Have you actually read any of the other thread?

 

[Carlisle]

So you still consider this dispute the unions fault! :roll:
Have you actually read any of the other thread?

GTR have likely scored a massive own goal by going in so ridiculously harshly on their staff so soon ,however the other side could argue the union were fully aware their chosen course of action was in all likelihood going to turn into a possibly bitter and protracted dispute, so had ample time to consider an alternative

 

[jon0844]

I am sure all sides will be partly to blame on this. How could they not? Each wants something different to the other.

 

[WatcherZero]

They have announced in a trading update today that extra driver training and rolling stock procurement costs have halved the lifetime profit margin of the franchise from 3% to 1.5%.

 

[jon0844]

They have announced in a trading update today that extra driver training and rolling stock procurement costs have halved the lifetime profit margin of the franchise from 3% to 1.5%.

Does this mean they're going to be even more keen to cut costs? Station staff are pretty much screwed aren't they?

Sure, they have a commitment to have stations staffed but that can eventually just be one person doing a long shift, who will be able to stay in the office after hours (for safety) and save a fortune - especially if they can manage to employ people on even lower pay with next to no responsibilities.

 

[323235]

A bit tarnished?! That's a huge understatement! The Gatwick Express brand is also suffering heavily, especially given many people realise the trains are no faster (indeed often slower) than their Southern trains and very often the "Express" is cancelled and passengers are simply told to wait 15/30/45 minutes until the next one, rather than told about a train leaving from another platform in just a few minutes. People are getting very angry.

I have just looked online and all the Gatwick Express services are currently taking 30 minutes whilst Southern are taking 1 or 2 minutes more. Is this because of the uproar perhaps?

 

[hwl]

They have announced in a trading update today that extra driver training and rolling stock procurement costs have halved the lifetime profit margin of the franchise from 3% to 1.5%.

Shares down ~14.9% at one point about £80-90m in profit over the franchise lifetime has just disappeared...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have just looked online and all the Gatwick Express services are currently taking 30 minutes whilst Southern are taking 1 or 2 minutes more. Is this because of the uproar perhaps?

The Southern services have an extra 2 stops!

 

[cjmillsnun]

GTR have likely scored a massive own goal by going in so ridiculously harshly on their staff so soon ,however the other side could argue the union were fully aware their chosen course of action was in all likelihood going to turn into a possibly bitter and protracted dispute, so had ample time to consider an alternative

What choice did they have? Roll over, give in and let GTR ride roughshod over every conductor and RPI and do away with most of them in a couple of years time just like they did at GatEx? GTR were never going to move on their viewpoint. so it was industrial action or nothing, and to do nothing would not be representing their members viewpoint as was proven by the massive vote in favour of action and the good turnout of people striking. This is important to them.

 

[455driver]

GTR have likely scored a massive own goal by going in so ridiculously harshly on their staff so soon ,however the other side could argue the union were fully aware their chosen course of action was in all likelihood going to turn into a possibly bitter and protracted dispute, so had ample time to consider an alternative

What alternative?
GTR have made it abundantly clear on numerous occasions that the only options were OBS or dole office, what EXACTLY could the Unions have done differently (except better press releases assuming of course that the press would accept and print the releases put out by the Unions)!

 

[LLivery]

Just typed in Go-Ahead shares on Google and they are down 16.4%!

 

[Carlisle]

what EXACTLY could the Unions have done differently )!

They could have started negotiating meaningfully a lot earlier on before Southern decided to make the conductors position technically redundant , instead what we've had in reality is RMT dragging their feet mostly in anticipation that the drivers will in time join the dispute, which may of course still happen depending on courts etc and the unions could still win

 

[FordFocus]

They could have started negotiating meaningfully a lot earlier on before Southern decided to make the conductors role technically redundant , instead what we've had in reality is RMT dragging their feet mostly in anticipation that the drivers will in time join the action, which may of course still happen and the unions could still win

Your posts are getting quite repetitive and boring.

GTR turned up from day one and said "This is happening whether you like it or not". See the letter from the solicitor in London about making guards redundant and check the dates. What were you expecting from the RMT? For them to accept that safety critical conductors would be replaced by this OBS role that needed less staff numbers and could eventually disappear?

 

[ScotGG]

Does this mean they're going to be even more keen to cut costs? Station staff are pretty much screwed aren't they?

Sure, they have a commitment to have stations staffed but that can eventually just be one person doing a long shift, who will be able to stay in the office after hours (for safety) and save a fortune - especially if they can manage to employ people on even lower pay with next to no responsibilities.

And watch fare evasion rise rapidly when that happens.

 

[Deepgreen]

And watch fare evasion rise rapidly when that happens.

They won't care, as all fare revenues go directly to DfT under the GTR contract. GTR is paid a fixed fee whether it collects more or fewer fares.

 

[Tetchytyke]

They could have started negotiating meaningfully a lot earlier on

I've repeatedly asked you the same question, which you seem determined to evade.

Given that GTR have stated they were changing the posts to OBS regardless of what anyone said, what should the RMT have done differently in their dealings with GTR?

Better press releases won't change GTR's position because GTR are doing this come hell or high water.

 

[43096]

They have announced in a trading update today that extra driver training and rolling stock procurement costs have halved the lifetime profit margin of the franchise from 3% to 1.5%.

You have to ask why Govia bother for such a small margin. Loads of reputational risk (as we see currently) and almost nothing by way of financial gain.

 

[55003]

The Prime Minister was meant to travel with Southern yesterday but his train was cancelled!
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1455..._in_Southern_Railway_cancellations/?ref=fbshr

This is from the Chairman of a local rail user group:

We understand like several of our members that you had some difficulty at Victoria yesterday in catching a train. Here at Reigate, Redhill and District Rail Users’ we have lots of experience in claiming delay repay from Southern & would be happy to assist in completing the complex form & when you receive the inevitable 3 or 4 rejections of your claim.

You are also invited to join our Facebook page facebook.com/groups/RRDRUA/ where there is much advice on travelling with Southern. We are very experienced at keeping each other informed when the service enters its daily meltdown on our virtually unusable commuter services.

Our User group representative and our local MP Crispin Blunt was in your Secretary of State’s for Transports office yesterday asking for an actual train service at reasonable prices. We hope you will share your experience so he further understands the pleasure of travelling on a Government owned railway.

Best Regards
RRDRUA