Premium buses - who ripped off whom?

[backontrack]

It seems that shiny, WiFi-equipped buses with 'leather-style' seats (and usually metallic-sounding names) are increasingly common. There's Stagecoach Gold, Arriva Sapphire (and ArrivaMAX), Citylink Gold and megabusGold - probably more too. Transdev may prefer to upgrade separate routes like the 36 Leeds-Ripon and the CityZap, but they still do it too - as do trentbarton.

But which do you prefer? Who ripped off whom?

List of Stagecoach Gold services here

Arriva Sapphire routes:
Ashington to Newcastle
Durham to Sunderland
Durham to Hartlepool
Durham to Bishop Auckland and Cockfield
Darlington to Durham
Easington to Middlesborough
Whitby, Loftus and Lingdale to Middlesbrough
Hall Green to Leeds
Chorley to Wigan
Wigan to Bolton
Macclesfield to Manchester
Crewe to Macclesfield
Manchester to Altrincham
Windmill Hill to Liverpool
Wrexham to Chester
Chester to Connahs Quay and Holywell
Rhyl to Llandudno
Huntington to Walsall
Holder Drive to Walsall
Tamworth to Birmingham
Stenson Fields to Derby
Oadby to Leicester
Leicester to Market Harborough
Lakes Estate to Wolverton
Aylesbury to Oxford
Stevenage to Luton
Hemel Hempstead to Rickmansworth
Watford to Luton
Dartford to Valley Drive
Gillingham to Maidstone

ArrivaMAX routes:

Newcastle-Alnwick-Berwick
Middlesbrough-Whitby-Scarborough
Darlington-Stockton-Middlesbrough
Darlington-Barnard Castle
York-Selby
Darlington-Richmond-Catterick-Colburn
Darlington-Bishop Auckland-Crook-Tow Law
Wakefield-Horbury-Ossett-Dewsbury
Wakefield-Ossett-Dewsbury-Heckmondwike-Bradford
Leeds-Dewsbury-Mirfield-Huddersfield
Newcastle-Cramlington-Blyth
Newcastle-Seaton Delaval-Blyth
Newcastle-Thropton
Rhyl-Rhuddlan-St Asaph-Denbigh
Aylesbury-Milton Keynes
Aylesbury-Leighton Buzzard-Milton Keynes
Aylesbury-High Wycombe
Southend-Basildon
Camberley-Guildford
Darlington-Tow Cop

 

[Lynford1976]

Arriva's premium brand is 'Sapphire', 'Max' is sort of 'Sapphire-lite' I think!

 

[tbone]

The spec that these 'premium' brands use was essentially used as far back as 2007 by the likes of trentbarton and others, only without the charging technology.

Interestingly they've moved away from leather seats since!

Having certain serves 'premium' services is all well and good, but if you see the benefit in doing it for route x, why specify standard buses for route y? As a passenger, I would feel disappointed that management so blatantly see my route as being inferior.

 

[backontrack]

Arriva's premium brand is 'Sapphire', 'Max' is sort of 'Sapphire-lite' I think!

Oh, I see - I thought there was something like that but couldn't remember it. Thanks!

 

[Stan Drews]

The spec that these 'premium' brands use was essentially used as far back as 2007 by the likes of trentbarton and others, only without the charging technology.

Interestingly they've moved away from leather seats since!

Having certain serves 'premium' services is all well and good, but if you see the benefit in doing it for route x, why specify standard buses for route y? As a passenger, I would feel disappointed that management so blatantly see my route as being inferior.

The move to premium specifications for buses was initially aimed at services where it was considered that the additional spec would entice new users that wouldn't consider an "ordinary bus". In much the same way that Waitrose might consider a worthwhile area to open a new store.
Many operators are now specifying things that were considered premium a decade or more ago, as standard on their new buses. However, that is more a reflection of how the industry has adapted to the changing world in which it is trying to attract custom. Car manufacturers have been doing it for a long time. In the 1960s it was usually an optional extra to have heaters in a car!

 

[cf111]

I was in Aberdeen recently and noticed that certain routes operated by First are now "Platinum" branded, I didn't use any so can't comment. They also appear to gave disposed of many of the bendy buses used on routes 1 and 2 in favour of double deckers.

 

[randyrippley]

leather seats? No thanks. When I was a kid some of the local old buses had leather upholstery and the seats were rough, hot, sweaty and uncomfortable. Even vinyl covered seats were more confortable

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To add to the list of Arriva Max routes, 229 (Huddersfield - Roberttown - Heckmondwike - Batley - Birstall - Ikea - Leeds) is now also a Max service. However it still runs only every 30mins unlike most other Max services (usually two routes are grouped to provide a more frequent end-to-end service as on the 202/203).

 

[Ianno87]

Stagecoach Gold was first trialled in about 2007/8. The 68(?) in Leamington Spa (which became G1 as a result), plus a route in (I think) Perth at the same time.

The 68 was unusual for Gold in being a midi-bus/local type route - most subsequent applications have been a Double Decker interurban-type routes (e.g 13 Cambridge-Haverhill, X4 Milton Keynes-Peterborough)

 

[northwichcat]

I think Burnley and Pendle were the first North West operator to offer premium buses in around 2004/2005 on Manchester to Nelson services but they didn't have all the features which are available now.

 

[Ianno87]

I think Burnley and Pendle were the first North West operator to offer premium buses in around 2004/2005 on Manchester to Nelson services but they didn't have all the features which are available now.

Yes, the X43 (and, then, X44 as well) was re-launched as The Witch Way in August 2005, when leather-seated buses were first introduced.

 

[Bungle965]

I think Burnley and Pendle were the first North West operator to offer premium buses in around 2004/2005 on Manchester to Nelson services but they didn't have all the features which are available now.

Those buses are now Transdev, and had new buses a few years ago which have leather coach like seats free wifi etc.
Sam

 

[Qwerty133]

These premium services just make the service on other routes even worse.
Buses should be allocated according to the needs of the route and not to make marketings job easier on certain routes. Putting newer higher spec buses on relatively short routes which get long turn arounds while old heaps on long routes with periods of both stop start and faster running just leads to an ever increasing number of breakdowns, and missing buses.
On one route in Leicester the 08:30 broke down twice last week and at least once the week before, and did not turn up on another day, plus on one of these days the following bus also broke down.

 

[ChathillMan]

I remember in pre Arriva era Northumbria Motor Service used high backed, coach style seating on virtually all services, including Metroriders on Berwick town routes. They also trialed TVs on them with infomercials (didn't last long) and the new Optare Deltas on the old 604 had dot matrix info bars on the inside with promo and service info.

Heady days...

20 years on... and you're lucky if an Arriva MPD has seat covers that all match

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

 

[Alex 2901]

National Express West Midlands Platinum, all routes (900/934/935/936*/937/937A/957/997/X51) using 15/65 plate E400MMC, can't decide if they knew about First using the name Platinum, or just used it anyway! With at least two more routes to go Platinum this year (126 & 529)

Also, Blackpool Transport "Palladium", two routes (5 & 9) using 15 plate Citaro's (5), and (when they arrive) 16 plate E400 Cities (9), as well as 60 plate B7RLE Centros.

 

[Robertj21a]

I remember in pre Arriva era Northumbria Motor Service used high backed, coach style seating on virtually all services, including Metroriders on Berwick town routes. They also trialed TVs on them with infomercials (didn't last long) and the new Optare Deltas on the old 604 had dot matrix info bars on the inside with promo and service info.

Heady days...

20 years on... and you're lucky if an Arriva MPD has seat covers that all match

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

Are there very many MPDs left in service ? - many have now departed from large chunks of Arriva-land.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Are there very many MPDs left in service ? - many have now departed from large chunks of Arriva-land.

You can in Northumberland as Arriva NE received 15 of them with the Aviva Arriva scheme in Durham plus a few others for specific work
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

National Express West Midlands Platinum, all routes (900/934/935/936*/937/937A/957/997/X51) using 15/65 plate E400MMC, can't decide if they knew about First using the name Platinum, or just used it anyway! With at least two more routes to go Platinum this year (126 & 529)

Also, Blackpool Transport "Palladium", two routes (5 & 9) using 15 plate Citaro's (5), and (when they arrive) 16 plate E400 Cities (9), as well as 60 plate B7RLE Centros.

The Platinum name was used by Arriva in Milton Keynes before First or NXWM for their 300 service
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember in pre Arriva era Northumbria Motor Service used high backed, coach style seating on virtually all services, including Metroriders on Berwick town routes. They also trialed TVs on them with infomercials (didn't last long) and the new Optare Deltas on the old 604 had dot matrix info bars on the inside with promo and service info.

Heady days...

20 years on... and you're lucky if an Arriva MPD has seat covers that all match

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

The infomercials were not an NMS invention but were foisted on people across the UK by British Bus - it was TOPPS TV (which stood for something like The Original Passenger Picture Show).

NMS may have specified high back seats but they were also keen to convert trunk routes to Metrorider operation so not so luxurious (e.g. Morpeth to Blyth)

 

[northwichcat]

Those buses are now Transdev, and had new buses a few years ago which have leather coach like seats free wifi etc.
Sam

Yes. They were owned by Blazefield at the time the original buses were introduced, who were taken over by Transdev and consequently became Transdev Burnley & Pendle. The Blazefield name wasn't used anywhere, although they did refer to Lancashire United being their sister company.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe Stagecoach were first with their Gold concept in terms of recent ideas - but First Manchester (under the GreaterManchester(f) brand) had a "Gold Service" concept in the late 1990s with newer buses and service guarantees, so there is nothing new under the sun.

 

[northwichcat]

I believe Stagecoach were first with their Gold concept in terms of recent ideas - but First Manchester (under the GreaterManchester(f) brand) had a "Gold Service" concept in the late 1990s with newer buses and service guarantees, so there is nothing new under the sun.

North Western also applied a 'Premier' brand to the 19 Altrincham to Manchester Airport route in the mid 90s. That was originally a route belonging to Starline Travel (run by Simon Fawcett who now runs Mistral) who were taken over by North Western. Starline were generally seen as an operator who used modern buses while some of North Western buses were very old. The 19 route was one of the first to get low floor buses under a GMPTE scheme (N reg Dennis Darts) so they got a modified Starline Travel livery with the word Premier in big letters underneath.

 

[SCH117X]

Transdev sought customers opinions before refurbishing the 662 "The Shuttle" Keighley-Bradford vehicles and ordering the new Gemini 3s for the 36. Users of the 36 were in favour of leather seats while those of the 662 were against them and those majority views have been reflected on the vehicles.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe Stagecoach were first with their Gold concept in terms of recent ideas - but First Manchester (under the GreaterManchester(f) brand) had a "Gold Service" concept in the late 1990s with newer buses and service guarantees, so there is nothing new under the sun.

The Gold service was indeed nothing new but the idea of newer buses and service guarantees really was pioneered (at least in terms of more than a limited, experimental format) by TrentBarton and their Rainbow routes c.1992

 

[nerd]

Transdev sought customers opinions before refurbishing the 662 "The Shuttle" Keighley-Bradford vehicles and ordering the new Gemini 3s for the 36. Users of the 36 were in favour of leather seats while those of the 662 were against them and those majority views have been reflected on the vehicles.

First did the same in specifying the seating and accommodation standards for their 'Vantage' bus branding on the Leigh-Salford-Manchester guided busway service: leather seats, USB charging, WiFi, tables on upper deck.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Midland Red North (now Arriva Midlands) in its Cowie Group days just prior to Arriva, began a short lived 'xl' brand with service guarantees and dedicated drivers. One route was selected at each depot and a variation of the existing fleet livery was applied with route branding and 'xl' vinyls.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are there very many MPDs left in service ? - many have now departed from large chunks of Arriva-land.

Many still in the Midlands, most have now been dumped on the now surely short lived Wednesbury operation, although those could soon be ousted by cascades following Midland Classic's purchase of the Burton on Trent depot and operation, but not the vehicles.

 

[Tetchytyke]

First Manchester (under the GreaterManchester(f) brand) had a "Gold Service" concept in the late 1990s with newer buses and service guarantees, so there is nothing new under the sun.

First West Yorkshire had "sovereign", which was the same idea. You're being a bit harsh- the buses were painted into a special livery, had dedicated drivers and uniforms, and the buses were low-floor. Compared to e-leather seats and free WiFi it might seem a bit mediocre, but when you consider First West Yorkshire still had old T-reg Atlanteans out in service at the time it was a big step up in quality. First also brought in the "Overground" colour-coded branding for high-frequency routes at about the same time.

It is always the way with First. They come up with the idea- or are at least the first ones to implement it widely- then get bored 25 minutes later and do something totally different. You see this with local branding too- First West Yorkshire used to be branded differently for each city, then it became one brand, and now they're going back towards local branding. A lesson in how not to run a business.

As for who was genuinely first with the latest idea of "premium" bus, I thought the credit went either to Blazefield on the 36 or Wilts and Dorset on the more.

Are there very many MPDs left in service ? - many have now departed from large chunks of Arriva-land.

Plenty of MPDs up here in Northumberland, albeit they're the most recent Transbus versions with high-back seats, WiFi and tinted windows. You'll also see some of the most sorry-looking MPDs in the country in Hemel Hempstead.

 

[tbtc]

It's nothing new - we've had this kind of "premium" service before in a few areas - having lived through 1990s initiatives like SMT's "Diamond" routes and Mainlines "Comfort Zone" - bus company introduces a new brand to highlight flagship buses on a flagship service.

Possibly part of the "problem" (that caused the "Gold" / "Sapphire" etc "solutions") is that there's little to differentiate a standard modern bus from one ten/fifteen years old.

We've had things like "easy access" low floors/ buggy spaces/ wheelchairs on board/ individual seats (rather than benches)/ electronic screens for so long that nothing seems "special" anymore.

You used to notice brand new buses on your route because they were a step forward (or, a "step-free" step forward). Now, there's less to notice.

The surprising thing (to me) is that First haven't made a song and dance about their "premium for everyone" approach. They made sure in the late '90s that their new livery ("Barbie") was only for the best vehicles built to a certain standard (e.g. I remember First Mainline introducing new minibuses in the "old" yellow/ red livery because they weren't low floor and therefore didn't qualify) - it meant that you knew that a "Barbie" bus was high standard (because only those buses had certain features).

(That was in the day when Stagecoach ensured that their "beachball" livery was only for modern buses, with "stripes" being kept for older buses)

Now, nobody brands a bus as "Super Low Floor", because almost everything is. So what do you do differently? Wifi? Leather seats? In First's case, you make these standard, but repaint R-reg B10BLEs in the same colour scheme, so nobody notices the improvements as much.

Nothing particularly new under the sun. We'll have periods of "dedicated drivers" on flagship routes, then we'll slowly see things slip back to normal, before a new MD insists on a new initiative (to make their mark). Plus ca change...

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you want things that are real improvements, look at London - iBus (next stop announcements), speeding up journeys by taking contactless etc. And genuinely increased seating comfort - by that I don't mean leather (I don't even particularly like it, it's sweaty and slippy), but serious consideration of seat design (don't shape seats to jam people against the wall when that doesn't work for the average male, whose shoulders are wider than his backside), seat width (consider 2+1 upstairs on deckers even if this means using a longer bus), legroom etc.

Also improved ambiance - to me the Borismaster does this well by using mood-lighting rather than blaring fluorescents and cheap LED strips. And some consideration of damping and sound insulation to reduce rattles and bangs - this also needs a culture change in maintenance from "just make it go" to a serious emphasis on making it like new inside and out every single time it goes out (Stagecoach are good at this, Arriva are terrible at it). And improved ventilation - either actual air conditioning with sealed windows (remember it needs to compete with decent cars, and few modern quality cars don't have aircon these days) or forced-air like London use to at least remove the musty smell and damp.

All these cost more on fuel - but if the industry is genuinely interested in getting people out of cars they have to solve these problems. They are problems most passengers wouldn't put a finger on as being a problem - but it is amazing how noticeable they are by their absence on a higher quality design of bus, or on a coach, or on a train.

 

[northwichcat]

Below are some of the adverts and promotional material Burnley & Pendle used when they first launched premium buses on the Witchway X43 service:

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, CCTV cameras recording *sound* are a benefit?

A gross infringement of my privacy, you mean. They should be banned. Images only, please.

 

[Bungle965]

If you want things that are real improvements, look at London - iBus (next stop announcements), speeding up journeys by taking contactless etc. And genuinely increased seating comfort - by that I don't mean leather (I don't even particularly like it, it's sweaty and slippy), but serious consideration of seat design (don't shape seats to jam people against the wall when that doesn't work for the average male, whose shoulders are wider than his backside), seat width (consider 2+1 upstairs on deckers even if this means using a longer bus), legroom etc.

Also improved ambiance - to me the Borismaster does this well by using mood-lighting rather than blaring fluorescents and cheap LED strips. And some consideration of damping and sound insulation to reduce rattles and bangs - this also needs a culture change in maintenance from "just make it go" to a serious emphasis on making it like new inside and out every single time it goes out (Stagecoach are good at this, Arriva are terrible at it). And improved ventilation - either actual air conditioning with sealed windows (remember it needs to compete with decent cars, and few modern quality cars don't have aircon these days) or forced-air like London use to at least remove the musty smell and damp.

All these cost more on fuel - but if the industry is genuinely interested in getting people out of cars they have to solve these problems. They are problems most passengers wouldn't put a finger on as being a problem - but it is amazing how noticeable they are by their absence on a higher quality design of bus, or on a coach, or on a train.

The one bus route that particularly stands out to me from all of the other premium routes is the 36 Leeds-Ripon operated by Transdev. Using Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 bodied Volvo B5TLs. Included is singular seating on the top deck. Free high speed wifi, leather coach seats etc. It even included a library and a work area. That is a service that defiantly feels premium.
Sam