Immigration at airports

[tony_mac]

No, they are not. They do not pass through the UK border at all.

Maybe I've taken the following statement too literally...
'The decision to allow a passenger to transit without a visa (TWOV) under the scheme is decided by an immigration officer at the UK border'
Perhaps it is only referring to landside transits.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe I've taken the following statement too literally...
'The decision to allow a passenger to transit without a visa (TWOV) under the scheme is decided by an immigration officer at the UK border'
Perhaps it is only referring to landside transits.

That statement refers to a transit where it is necessary to enter the UK, e.g. a transit involving two different airports.

 

[mrmartin]

Sorry, so what is stopping someone from doing this:

Book flight 1 Kiev -> LHR -> New York (say) BA

Book flight 2 LHR -> EDI on BA

Go through connections - as you're transiting internationally that doc says you don't have to go thru immigration.

Check in on the app for the second flight. Present yourself on the second flight.

The only thing that would stop it as far as I can see is that the flight 2 boarding pass won't have been scanned at security, but you could take a screenshot of it and get an accomplice to scan that at the front gate at LHR for you (then not go thru).

 

[sng7]

I haven't used heathrow but at gatwick when you go into security with a domestic ticket they take your picture and when you go through to the gate they check your picture and that it is you before you get on a domestic flight to solve that problem.

 

[WestCoast]

Sorry, so what is stopping someone from doing this:

Book flight 1 Kiev -> LHR -> New York (say) BA

Book flight 2 LHR -> EDI on BA

Go through connections - as you're transiting internationally that doc says you don't have to go thru immigration.

Check in on the app for the second flight. Present yourself on the second flight.

The only thing that would stop it as far as I can see is that the flight 2 boarding pass won't have been scanned at security, but you could take a screenshot of it and get an accomplice to scan that at the front gate at LHR for you (then not go thru).

A picture of you is taken at Heathrow and Gatwick, either at flight connections or going through security from landside. At the gate, your picture is verified by security using facial recognition software.

 

[berneyarms]

Sorry, so what is stopping someone from doing this:

Book flight 1 Kiev -> LHR -> New York (say) BA

Book flight 2 LHR -> EDI on BA

Go through connections - as you're transiting internationally that doc says you don't have to go thru immigration.

Check in on the app for the second flight. Present yourself on the second flight.

The only thing that would stop it as far as I can see is that the flight 2 boarding pass won't have been scanned at security, but you could take a screenshot of it and get an accomplice to scan that at the front gate at LHR for you (then not go thru).

What stops you is that before any passenger travelling on a domestic or CTA flight goes through to airside, a photo of the passenger is taken and their boarding pass scanned.

At the gate another photo is taken and the boarding pass scanned again and the two photos are matched.

Therefore unless you have an exact double who is already validly in the CTA you won't be allowed to board.

 

[me123]

No, they don't. At airports with an airside transit facility (in the UK this is probably just LHR and LGW, I doubt any others are big enough though Manchester might have it) you do not have to enter the UK if you are going to depart on another international flight.



This is true of domestics, though, as having to split a domestic between "has entered the UK" and "has not entered the UK" would be complicated.

I'm trying to remember how it worked at Heathrow then, as I wasn't (to my recollection - another jet lagged passenger here!) following signs stating that I was a domestic passenger. I got off my international flight, followed signs for T2 connections and ended up at a border check point. I'm not sure how anyone would have differentiated me (as someone entering the UK) from people transiting to elsewhere. I had assumed (evidently incorrectly) that all passengers transiting had a quick passport check, even if they were transiting to elsewhere (which I had imagined being a quick "wave through").
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Are you saying the Irish authorities are incompetent at securing the CTA border? Quite a serious accusation.

EU citizens aren't supposed to face questions at border control, due to freedom of movement regulations. The Irish authorities don't demand their officers scan every passport, most EU countries let their officers decide. If the officer is satisfied it's your passport, they let you pass. They'll have information of arriving passengers if anyone is flagged for further attention. Any non-EU citizens will be appropriately admitted to the CTA when the officer is confident everything is fine.

I don't want to claim that anyone was incompetent, but the border guard literally looked at the passport for a couple of seconds and waved me through. This is very different from entry to the UK, where (unless I'm using the e-gates) I do frequently get asked questions about my trip. Perhaps I just look suspicious?

There was no concern as to where I had been (it is worth considering that Etihad and Emirates fly into the airport and offer connections, so it isn't all US traffic) or where I was going to. Customs at Edinburgh was non-existent - for those who don't know Edinburgh airport, customs consists of a blue lane and a green lane. There was also a closed kiosk and phone for passengers who had something to declare. I noted that, coming off my flight, quite a lot of people had orginated in the US (or elsewhere outside the EU, as noted by the absence of green stripes on the baggage tags) but erroneously took the blue channel. Not that there was anyone to stop them.

I'd suggest (although I'm not advertising it to would-be criminals!) that the border checks on that occasion were very lax and could be strengthened.

 

[berneyarms]

I'm trying to remember how it worked at Heathrow then, as I wasn't (to my recollection - another jet lagged passenger here!) following signs stating that I was a domestic passenger. I got off my international flight, followed signs for T2 connections and ended up at a border check point. I'm not sure how anyone would have differentiated me (as someone entering the UK) from people transiting to elsewhere. I had assumed (evidently incorrectly) that all passengers transiting had a quick passport check, even if they were transiting to elsewhere (which I had imagined being a quick "wave through").
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I don't want to claim that anyone was incompetent, but the border guard literally looked at the passport for a couple of seconds and waved me through. This is very different from entry to the UK, where (unless I'm using the e-gates) I do frequently get asked questions about my trip. Perhaps I just look suspicious?

There was no concern as to where I had been (it is worth considering that Etihad and Emirates fly into the airport and offer connections, so it isn't all US traffic) or where I was going to. Customs at Edinburgh was non-existent - for those who don't know Edinburgh airport, customs consists of a blue lane and a green lane. There was also a closed kiosk and phone for passengers who had something to declare. I noted that, coming off my flight, quite a lot of people had orginated in the US (or elsewhere outside the EU, as noted by the absence of green stripes on the baggage tags) but erroneously took the blue channel. Not that there was anyone to stop them.

I'd suggest (although I'm not advertising it to would-be criminals!) that the border checks on that occasion were very lax and could be strengthened.

At LHR you would have followed signs for flight connections and then entered a domestic flight channel, where, having passed through immigration, your photo would be taken and your boarding pass scanned, and the latter check would be repeated at the boarding gate before you boarded the flight.

As I posted already I think you are being very insulting to the Irish authorities and certainly it does come across as if you're suggesting incompetence on their part. As a citizen of the CTA zone why would they interrogate you unless they have reason to do so? The only check they need to make is that you are who your passport says you are unless they are suspicious about you or have intelligence about you..

The point I have to reinforce again about Dublin is that every single arriving passenger in that airport (including CTA originating passengers) has to pass through an immigration ID check.

As for Etihad and Emirates flights - were they arriving at the same time? Did you check? You are making an awful lot of sweeping statements about this without any real grounds for making them as far as I can see.

I'm struggling to understand what exactly you expect the Irish authorities to do given you're a citizen of the CTA zone?

Most people I know who use Dublin Airport (and I live here) complain that there is too much scrutiny given every inbound passenger regardless of origin has an ID check.

You can be sure that someone with an external passport will be subject to questioning - that is something I witness every time at Dublin.

As for customs at Edinburgh well as before the checks are done on a random or intelligence based basis - just because they didn't happen that time doesn't mean that they don't do it regularly.

 

[me123]

I am not insulting the Irish authorities, I am merely commenting that in comparison to entry checks performed in the UK (from my experience - at Heathrow, Edinburgh, Glasgow) this was a very swift check. On this one occasion (I passed through another three times as a transfer passenger, and arrived once when Dublin was my destination, and had no concerns on those occasions), I struggle to believe that the officer could possibly have actually verified my identity given the brevity of their check. On this occasion, the check was exceptionally brief (less than five seconds all in all I would say) and I would argue that, on this occasion, the border was considerably more relaxed than I was expecting. On this occasion, I was subject to very little scrutiny compared to what I would expect having arrived into the UK directly. It was also considerably briefer than the checks I experience entering Schengen as well (rarely asked any questions here of course, but they clearly looked at the passport on these occasions).

As you well know, origin of flight and country of passport issuance do not guarantee safety. Terrorists can be of any nationality. Even UK passport holders would theoretically be able to be stopped entering the CTA if there was any suspicion. Of course, it is highly unlikely that I would have caused any problem, but to the border guards I am just a random person with a passport.
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At LHR you would have followed signs for flight connections and then entered a domestic flight channel, where, having passed through immigration, your photo would be taken and your boarding pass scanned, and the latter check would be repeated at the boarding gate before you boarded the flight.

Yes I understand the theory. But I cannot remember what actually happened. Obviously something happened, but I cannot recall being segregated into "domestic transfers" and "international transfers". And I cannot recall what checks there were to stop people going through the wrong channel (either accidentally or deliberately). I trust there was something, but from my recollection I just followed signs for Terminal 2 and ended up at a border check. Of course, Terminal 2 also has international flights, so if passengers transiting at Heathrow to elsewhere do not need to go through an immigration channel, they must have been segregated at some point.

It's annoying me because I've obviously seen the answer but cannot recall what it is!

 

[WestCoast]

This is very different from entry to the UK, where (unless I'm using the e-gates) I do frequently get asked questions about my trip. Perhaps I just look suspicious?

That's rather interesting. I actually can't recall being asked a question at UK immigration ever, sometimes they look at me carefully since the photo is rather old. Only other times in Europe have been 1) asked for my place of birth once in Dublin (), 2) a fairly lengthy and bizarre questioning on the Italy-Switzerland border by some bored customs agents who preceded to tell me how to apply for a work permit in Switzerland.
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As you well know, origin of flight and country of passport issuance do not guarantee safety. Terrorists can be of any nationality. Even UK passport holders would theoretically be able to be stopped entering the CTA if there was any suspicion. Of course, it is highly unlikely that I would have caused any problem, but to the border guards I am just a random person with a passport.

I'd argue intelligence is the most important factor in stopping criminals. Passenger lists are forwarded to the authorities ahead of time, if anyone is flagged on international databases they will be intercepted.

 

[berneyarms]

I am not insulting the Irish authorities, I am merely commenting that in comparison to entry checks performed in the UK (from my experience - at Heathrow, Edinburgh, Glasgow) this was a very swift check. On this one occasion (I passed through another three times as a transfer passenger, and arrived once when Dublin was my destination, and had no concerns on those occasions), I struggle to believe that the officer could possibly have actually verified my identity given the brevity of their check. On this occasion, the check was exceptionally brief (less than five seconds all in all I would say) and I would argue that, on this occasion, the border was considerably more relaxed than I was expecting. On this occasion, I was subject to very little scrutiny compared to what I would expect having arrived into the UK directly. It was also considerably briefer than the checks I experience entering Schengen as well (rarely asked any questions here of course, but they clearly looked at the passport on these occasions).

As you well know, origin of flight and country of passport issuance do not guarantee safety. Terrorists can be of any nationality. Even UK passport holders would theoretically be able to be stopped entering the CTA if there was any suspicion. Of course, it is highly unlikely that I would have caused any problem, but to the border guards I am just a random person with a passport.
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Yes I understand the theory. But I cannot remember what actually happened. Obviously something happened, but I cannot recall being segregated into "domestic transfers" and "international transfers". And I cannot recall what checks there were to stop people going through the wrong channel (either accidentally or deliberately). I trust there was something, but from my recollection I just followed signs for Terminal 2 and ended up at a border check. Of course, Terminal 2 also has international flights, so if passengers transiting at Heathrow to elsewhere do not need to go through an immigration channel, they must have been segregated at some point.

It's annoying me because I've obviously seen the answer but cannot recall what it is!

If you were a suspected terrorist you would in all likelihood have been identified as being such on the passenger manifest and specific measures would have been put in place to stop you.

The immigration officer's primary task is to ensure that you are the person on the UK passport and are entitled to enter the country - he was satisfied that you were having looked at it and let you through.

I really think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I have seen plenty of people in Dublin airport being interrogated at the booths.

Hence I do think you're being rather insulting towards the Irish authorities when you suggest Dublin is "a weak link".
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That's rather interesting. I actually can't recall being asked a question at UK immigration ever, sometimes they look at me carefully since the photo is rather old. Only other times in Europe have been 1) asked for my place of birth once in Dublin (), 2) a fairly lengthy and bizarre questioning on the Italy-Switzerland border by some bored customs agents who preceded to tell me how to apply for a work permit in Switzerland.
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I'd argue intelligence is the most important factor in stopping criminals. Passenger lists are forwarded to the authorities ahead of time, if anyone is flagged on international databases they will be intercepted.

The reason you were asked for your place of birth in Dublin is that only Irish and UK citizens are entitled to travel without a passport within the CTA.