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Where does the train for this Transpennine service come from?

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ryan125hst

ryan125hst

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Apologies for the less than clear title, but I couldn't really think of a better one!

I went to the student night at Meadowhall last night with a couple of mates and returned on the 21:09 Transpennine service back to Sheffield (a packed two car 170 turned up- it happened to be my first ride on a Turbostar :D). This service terminated on platform 6. After getting home, I had a look on Realtime Trains to see whether the train remained in Sheffield overnight or whether it formed another service.

I saw 1R94, the 21:34 to Cleethorpes and was confused as it starts from platform 1. I then realised that it must shunt to platform 1 to form the service as trains can't depart platform 6 heading in the Meadowhall direction as there is only a shunt signal for that move. Problem solved, or so I thought.

I've now noticed that 1R93 (the train we were on) heads to Crofton depot as 5R93 about an hour after terminating in Sheffield (having shunted to the sidings to wait first).

The question is, where does the unit for 1R94 come from? It must be a Class 185 as it will spend the night in Cleethorpes and only 185's do that as far as I'm aware. No Traspennine service terminates on platform 1 and nothing terminated at that time other than the service I have mentioned above and the service from Manchester which, last night, was a double 170 set that had terminated in platform 7.

Does anyone know where the unit comes from?
 
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clagmonster

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Said train tends to be a 170. I didn't notice it last night. I suspect it will have shunted off either one of the two arrivals you mentioned.
 
ryan125hst

ryan125hst

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westcoaster said:
It must come from 1R93 from cleethorpes. Which arrives at 2120 and might shunt from 6 to 1
Click to expand...

That's what I thought it did, but it actually runs to Crofton depot as 5R93, see here: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81092/2016/04/21/advanced

As it was only a two coach last night and the service in question ran, I'm still confused as to what could have formed this service.

It could have been one of the two 170's on platform 7, but I didn't think 170's ever ended up at Cleethorpes over night. Or has this changed?
 
Quakkerillo

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NoMorePacers said:
No, but Hull services TERMINATE at Piccadilly
Click to expand...

Could also just have to do with where crew lives, and where they can store trains overnight. They might just have 'spare' room in Hull, and need for trains in Manchester Airport, so use this more to position trains, whilst in passenger service, than for a hull-airport connection itself.
 
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u10207420

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1R94 is formed off 1B92 2020 Piccadilly - Sheffield, which terminates, shunts and works 1R94 2134 Sheffield - Cleethorpes, This evening formed of 170306 / 170308
 
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AWK

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ryan125hst said:
Apologies for the less than clear title, but I couldn't really think of a better one!

I went to the student night at Meadowhall last night with a couple of mates and returned on the 21:09 Transpennine service back to Sheffield (a packed two car 170 turned up- it happened to be my first ride on a Turbostar :D). This service terminated on platform 6. After getting home, I had a look on Realtime Trains to see whether the train remained in Sheffield overnight or whether it formed another service.

I saw 1R94, the 21:34 to Cleethorpes and was confused as it starts from platform 1. I then realised that it must shunt to platform 1 to form the service as trains can't depart platform 6 heading in the Meadowhall direction as there is only a shunt signal for that move. Problem solved, or so I thought.

I've now noticed that 1R93 (the train we were on) heads to Crofton depot as 5R93 about an hour after terminating in Sheffield (having shunted to the sidings to wait first).

The question is, where does the unit for 1R94 come from? It must be a Class 185 as it will spend the night in Cleethorpes and only 185's do that as far as I'm aware. No Traspennine service terminates on platform 1 and nothing terminated at that time other than the service I have mentioned above and the service from Manchester which, last night, was a double 170 set that had terminated in platform 7.

Does anyone know where the unit comes from?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the service you got in to Sheffield is usually formed of 2x 170s which then split on arrival at Sheffield. One unit then shuffles over to platform 1 for the return working to Cleethorpes, the second unit goes ECS to Crofton depot as you suggested.

I guess the other night a set shortage/failure resulted in only one Unit running the inbound service and thus that unit did the return working and nothing ran ECS to Crofton.
 
ryan125hst

ryan125hst

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u1020742 said:
1R94 is formed off 1B92 2020 Piccadilly - Sheffield, which terminates, shunts and works 1R94 2134 Sheffield - Cleethorpes, This evening formed of 170306 / 170308
Click to expand...

That makes sense as it is the only Transpennine service in Sheffield at that time. The question it does raise though is why not run 1B92 as a through service to Cleethorpes rather than terminate it at Sheffield and faff around shunting it over from the bay to another platform.

clagmonster said:
A pair of 170s stable at Cleethorpes each night.
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Is that a new thing? I'm sure I've read on here in the past that no Class 170's stabled in Cleethorpes and the small depot there only deals with the 185's. When trying to work out the question I asked in the original post, I found another thread saying how 170's overnight in Sheffield or Crofton depot. It's a good thing if they have changed this as it must make diagramming easier.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
AWK said:
Pretty sure the service you got in to Sheffield is usually formed of 2x 170s which then split on arrival at Sheffield. One unit then shuffles over to platform 1 for the return working to Cleethorpes, the second unit goes ECS to Crofton depot as you suggested.

I guess the other night a set shortage/failure resulted in only one Unit running the inbound service and thus that unit did the return working and nothing ran ECS to Crofton.
Click to expand...

It's the first time I've used the service so I don't know what it is normally formed of. It was definitely only two coaches though. Strangely though, it did seem to run to Crofton: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y81092/2016/04/21/advanced

Did both units of 1B92 run to Cleethorpes on Thursday?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
PHILIPE said:
The platforms shown on RTT are not always 100% correct.
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True, but trains can't depart in the Meadowhall direction (and onwards to Doncaster and Cleethorpes) from platform 6 in passenger service as there is only a shunt signal at that end of the platform. It would have to be shunted over to 1,2 or 5 to depart in that direction.
 
Boothby97

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clagmonster said:
A pair of 170s stable at Cleethorpes each night.
Click to expand...

No a single 170 stables at Cleethorpes, and has done every night since December. Prior to that two 170s would stable at Cleethorpes overnight.
Its been well over a year since 170s starting stabling here overnight.


Thanks, Sam
 
ryan125hst

ryan125hst

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Boothby97 said:
No a single 170 stables at Cleethorpes, and has done every night since December. Prior to that two 170s would stable at Cleethorpes overnight.
Its been well over a year since 170s starting stabling here overnight.


Thanks, Sam
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that this was happening. I'm guessing they are serviced at the depot in Cleethorpes with staff trained up on them accordingly (which I don't think they were before?)
 
B

Bovverboy

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Originally Posted by ryan125hst on 22 April 2016
Apologies for the less than clear title, but I couldn't really think of a better one!

I went to the student night at Meadowhall last night with a couple of mates and returned on the 21:09 Transpennine service back to Sheffield (a packed two car 170 turned up- it happened to be my first ride on a Turbostar ). This service terminated on platform 6. After getting home, I had a look on Realtime Trains to see whether the train remained in Sheffield overnight or whether it formed another service.

I saw 1R94, the 21:34 to Cleethorpes and was confused as it starts from platform 1. I then realised that it must shunt to platform 1 to form the service as trains can't depart platform 6 heading in the Meadowhall direction as there is only a shunt signal for that move. Problem solved, or so I thought.

I've now noticed that 1R93 (the train we were on) heads to Crofton depot as 5R93 about an hour after terminating in Sheffield (having shunted to the sidings to wait first).

The question is, where does the unit for 1R94 come from? It must be a Class 185 as it will spend the night in Cleethorpes and only 185's do that as far as I'm aware. No Traspennine service terminates on platform 1 and nothing terminated at that time other than the service I have mentioned above and the service from Manchester which, last night, was a double 170 set that had terminated in platform 7.

Does anyone know where the unit comes from?
Click to expand...

u10207420 said:
1R94 is formed off 1B92 2020 Piccadilly - Sheffield, which terminates, shunts and works 1R94 2134 Sheffield - Cleethorpes, This evening formed of 170306 / 170308
Click to expand...

The above is correct in that at the time of ryan125hst's journey, the 1R94 Sheffield - Cleethorpes was formed from 1B92 (which was at the time, and remains, 1955 Manchester Airport - Sheffield). The only thing not correct is the implication that the stock off 1B92 (a double 170) continued in its entirety to Cleethorpes, whereas one of the 170s should have come off at Sheffield and remained stabled there overnight.

Originally Posted by AWK
Pretty sure the service you got in to Sheffield is usually formed of 2x 170s which then split on arrival at Sheffield. One unit then shuffles over to platform 1 for the return working to Cleethorpes, the second unit goes ECS to Crofton depot as you suggested.

I guess the other night a set shortage/failure resulted in only one Unit running the inbound service and thus that unit did the return working and nothing ran ECS to Crofton.
Click to expand...

According to the information I have before me the journey in question (1926 ex Cleethorpes) was scheduled for a single 170, and probably had been since May 2015. This is the unit which should then have gone off to Crofton.

Originally Posted by ryan125hst
The question it does raise though is why not run 1B92 as a through service to Cleethorpes rather than terminate it at Sheffield and faff around shunting it over from the bay to another platform.
Click to expand...

An obvious question, for which there doesn't appear to be an equally obvious answer. It may have been something to do with the 22 minutes drop-back, or the dropping of the second unit might have been more complicated than we're imagining it.

There has recently been a significant alteration to the 170 duties, presumably from the May timetable change. It would appear that there is now only one 170 diagram, doubled up for most of the day. Two 170s (instead of one) must now remain at Crofton throughout the day, joined by a third overnight.
The current diagram starts as the single unit diagram would have previously done, i.e. 0342 Sheffield to Manchester Airport, but picks up the second unit at Sheffield on its way back to Cleethorpes. As there is now no need for trains to reverse at Doncaster at c.1735 the current double 170 finishes up doing 1955 Manchester Airport to Sheffield, as the double would have done previously. On arrival at Sheffield one unit then stables for the night, as previously, but the second now goes off to Crofton, and the 2134 to Cleethorpes is worked by the unit off the 2120 arrival (1926 ex Cleethorpes), which is now a 185.
From the May timetable change TPE hires to Northern one fewer 185 per day than it did previously (i.e. from 1 April) so have presumably said to Bombardier/Porterbrook 'We only need two 170s a day now, instead of three', with a consequent saving of leasing cost.
Another three weeks and the 170s will be completely gone (from the north of England) - shame really, I quite like them.
 
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