Do the general public care about Pacers?

[driver_m]

One other difference is GW and ATW have selected certain routes for them and they tend to stay on those routes. With Northern provided the Pacers are cleared and the crews sign them they go pretty much anywhere.

I can go on an ATW 150 though and almost guarantee the seat cushion will stay in place and they go all over their network.

 

[CapitalStar378]

I can't imagine that passengers don't notice the deafening brake screech of the ATW Pacers as they come to a stop. I don't know if it's a maintenance issue or if it's because they're junk but it's very unpleasant!

 

[Spartacus]

My Friday night drinking buddies know the difference.
158s are classed as 'posh'
153/155s are 'good'
150s are 'alright'
144s are 'poor, but with decent seats
142s are split between those with 'regular' and bus seats, regular ones viewed as being bad, bus seated ones with total contempt.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have been on some Class 142 in the past that looked quite bad internally on parts of the flooring and around some of the windows. Not a depot cleaning problem, as cleaning can do nothing where floor covering has worn away in areas.

Regarding the very cold winter Class 142 internal temperatures, my wife and I went on an early Saturday service which was on a diversionary service pattern that had started somewhere in the Wigan area, called at Manchester Victoria (platform 6) where we joined it, then via Rochdale, the Copy Pit line, Accrington, Blackburn (reverse) and Clitheroe. It was cold on the Pacer when we boarded and we were utterly freezing by the time we reached Clitheroe.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

153s are not good, they have only one carriage and seats with no legroom, smaller windows than Pacers, Pacers are much better, I'd prefer one on the Barton and Newark to Grimsby lines anyday.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

153s are not good, they have only one carriage and seats with no legroom, smaller windows than Pacers, Pacers are much better, I'd prefer one on the Barton and Newark to Grimsby lines anyday.

Do you have warm winters in your area, noting what has been said about the Class 142 units in winter?

 

[northwichcat]

Do you have warm winters in your area, noting what has been said about the Class 142 units in winter?

I would say a 142 is the only type of train I've ever been on where ice has formed on the inside of the windows when the heating has been working as usual. It happened when it was one of the nights a few years back when the overnight lows got in to double negative figures and on a Pacer which was going through Baguley at 75mph.

 

[DarloRich]

I can't imagine that passengers don't notice the deafening brake screech of the ATW Pacers as they come to a stop. I don't know if it's a maintenance issue or if it's because they're junk but it's very unpleasant!

they have done that since day one when they were introduced in the north east

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They have done that since day one when they were introduced in the north east

Rather a damning statement concerning that particular aspect of the Class 142 fleet...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Rather a damning statement concerning that particular aspect of the Class 142 fleet...

Though that particular "feature" is an inherent design flaw due to the rigid chassis/wheelsets rather than a simple wear-and-tear issue, so it's not an inaccurate account.

The fact that I can remember pacers when they were new does make me feel old, but even then they felt like a step backwards compared to the 101s, 108s and 110s they replaced.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

they have done that since day one when they were introduced in the north east

No, they haven't.

They were originally fitted with cable braking, the cables stretched when the brakes were applied. There was usually no squeaking. And no stopping.

 

[northwichcat]

And no stopping.

Well that's the solution to the acceleration issues

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Well that's the solution to the acceleration issues

That was a major problem for them too, with the Leyland engine and mechanical transmissions. If they moved, they wouldn't stop, if they stopped they wouldn't move.

 

[73001]

That was a major problem for them too, with the Leyland engine and mechanical transmissions. If they moved, they wouldn't stop, if they stopped they wouldn't move.

Best quote in this thread!

 

[alexl92]

The other problem, which the general public definitely can't miss, is the screetch on the Crimple Valley Viaduct curve on the Harrogate line. It's horrendous.

 

[NoMorePacers]

Here's what my guide to trains is (you can call it: Thomas's guide to trains if you like)
142: Godawful (Possibly worse than German erstatz coffee: nuts with coal tar (with sugar it was OK). Maybe as bad as Nigel Farage (maybe not THAT bad)).
144: OK seats
150: Fine
153/155: Fine
158: Posh
185: Very Posh
180: Very Very Posh
HST: Extremely Posh

 

[physics34]

They are a disgrace......compared to us southerners who have a 377s on a London Bridge to West Croydon service!!

Ive heard northern football fans saying how nice our trains are down south, and ive got mates who have gone up north and couldnt believe the pacers!!!

I reckon 75 % of people (mostly women!) who see a train as a train and nothing else so dont really notice is different stock is couple together.

 

[yorksrob]

People will notice a two carriage one turn up on a busy service which is normally operated by something else because it's effectively short formed.

 

[sprinterguy]

If northern in its previous guises had looked after all of its stock, then I don't think we'd have this crop up quite so much. When you get on a 156 and the seat cushion falls off under you, sit next to the bog in a 150 and the end door opens with every lurch and then a 142 turns up with condensation in the window and a stink of damp the conversation should be about just how badly our stock has been neglected across the board. I'm no fan of nodding donkeys but it's rare to hear people on here complaining about the ones at Arriva Wales. General opinion is that GW looked after theirs too.

Very much so; there's a world of difference between the generally pleasant interiors of ATWs' Pacers and 150s (and for that matter, Northern's 144s) that have seen a major refurbishment, and the generally worn out look of the majority of Northerns' 142s and 150s.

 

[Mag_seven]

I classify myself as a member of the general public so yes.

 

[kevconnor]

The other problem, which the general public definitely can't miss, is the screetch on the Crimple Valley Viaduct curve on the Harrogate line. It's horrendous.

I am still sure most of the rail commuters in Carnforth suffer from Tinitus due to this very reason.

 

[DarloRich]

Rather a damning statement concerning that particular aspect of the Class 142 fleet...

the 143's are worse!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, they haven't.

They were originally fitted with cable braking, the cables stretched when the brakes were applied. There was usually no squeaking. And no stopping.

Actually I wasn't aware they had brakes. I assumed the guard simply chucked an anchor out of the back or that gravity and friction were used to bring them to a stand - that or a tight curve

(Best not discuss the transmission or engines I guess!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I classify myself as a member of the general public so yes.

I am sure that the general public appreciate a nice new modern bus in comparison to some of the "relics" that are offered as a form of transportation.

The same will apply to train services.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

the 143's are worse!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Actually I wasn't aware they had brakes. I assumed the guard simply chucked an anchor out of the back or that gravity and friction were used to bring them to a stand - that or a tight curve

(Best not discuss the transmission or engines I guess!)

Engines falling off was another way of stopping them.

It's taken a lot of engineering to bring them up to their current level of awfulness. It's hard to describe and even remember just how bad they were when new. It was odd seeing an HST set alongside a Pacer and the APT-P at the RTC. A definite case of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Engines falling off was another way of stopping them. It's taken a lot of engineering to bring them up to their current level of awfulness. It's hard to describe and even remember just how bad they were when new. It was odd seeing an HST set alongside a Pacer and the APT-P at the RTC. A definite case of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

Tell me all about the saga of "The Pacer and the cardan shafts", please.

 

[DarloRich]

Engines falling off was another way of stopping them.

It's taken a lot of engineering to bring them up to their current level of awfulness. It's hard to describe and even remember just how bad they were when new. It was odd seeing an HST set alongside a Pacer and the APT-P at the RTC. A definite case of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

and like a railway cockroach the pacer still survives!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Tell me all about the saga of "The Pacer and the cardan shafts", please.

Ah now, there's been a few in recent years hasn't there.

Final drive usually seizes, drive shaft breaks somewhere, drops onto the track and wrecks the underside of the engine and any signalling kit on the track. It might lift the unit and derail the axle in question, depending on direction of travel.

The drive shaft retention brackets are made out of cheese or something and don't do their job. Just like anything else BRE-Leyland fitted when new.

 

[EveningStar]

In answer to the original question, my colleagues who commute on the Tyne Valley line, none of whom are railway enthusiasts, all absolutely hate Pacers. QED?

 

[BestWestern]

Lots of people in Northern land don't like the pacers (or bus trains as many call them) and will be happy to see the back of them, however they realise that they can either get on board or walk to walk!

I don't disagree that a good proportion of passengers probably dislike 'old, draughty, noisy etc' trains. The issue I have is that the very same could be said of a Class 150, especially a /1 with low back, 2+3 seating, rattling doors, constant noise and vibration, and exactly the same issues with draughts and hit & miss heating provision. How many of these people demanding Pacers be cut up are also campaigning for a Sprinter cull at the same time? Do we have politicians shouting about them and the DfT banning them from franchises? Errr no, in fact more will be arriving from GWR and they'll all be fitted with brand new bogs to give them another decade or so of life. Hence, I'm fairly convinced that the railway knowlege of many of those leading this 'campaign' extends no further than a vague grasp of what a Pacer is.

I can't imagine that passengers don't notice the deafening brake screech of the ATW Pacers as they come to a stop. I don't know if it's a maintenance issue or if it's because they're junk but it's very unpleasant!

The brake screech of a Pacer is no worse, and arguably not as bad, as the nice shiny Class 180s.... Should we ban them also?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Engines falling off was another way of stopping them.

It's taken a lot of engineering to bring them up to their current level of awfulness. It's hard to describe and even remember just how bad they were when new. It was odd seeing an HST set alongside a Pacer and the APT-P at the RTC. A definite case of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.

Ugh, I remember the daily door issues on 142s when they were new and had 4-leaf bus doors which flapped in high winds (always fun going over Lockwood viaduct in a force 9 gale back then!) and often required the firm application of a guard's boot to get them to open, or close. The 141s kept these types of doors until withdrawal, and I believe another forum member relayed a tale of a door blowing open over Crimple viaduct.