Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[MetroCar4058]

Im not a 100% sure but i think the line breakers had asbestos in them? :?

Thank you, I think it looked like the box for the line breakers although I'm not 100% sure about the component location though :P

 

[S Lowes]

Hi All

Not sure how many of yourselves remember the Tyne & Wear Transport Group from the MSN Groups days?

Just a bit of a update to this as its very much work in progress,

Ive currently completed the Train Running Boards for 2016 and also historic ones from 2011, ive also managed to obtain the timetables from 1980 until 1986 with a quick snippet attached below.

Hopefully the group will take off like the previous group did but like i said its very much work in progress so its still a few months off from going live.

Thanks
Scott

 

[Scott M]

Just a bit of a update to this as its very much work in progress,

Ive currently completed the Train Running Boards for 2016 and also historic ones from 2011, ive also managed to obtain the timetables from 1980 until 1986 with a quick snippet attached below.

Hopefully the group will take off like the previous group did but like i said its very much work in progress so its still a few months off from going live.

Thanks
Scott

Nice work!

I remember a DM telling me that when metro first opened, drivers were taught to use the harshest braking notch. However due to many metros overshooting platforms, the government threatened to shut them down. And therefore they now brake less harshly so that they have the back up of extra brake power if they need it.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

I got reminded of this by looking at that old timetable - central-jesmond 1 min per station, don't think it's quite that quick these days!

 

[S Lowes]

Nice work!

I remember a DM telling me that when metro first opened, drivers were taught to use the harshest braking notch. However due to many metros overshooting platforms, the government threatened to shut them down. And therefore they now brake less harshly so that they have the back up of extra brake power if they need it.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

I got reminded of this by looking at that old timetable - central-jesmond 1 min per station, don't think it's quite that quick these days!

Cheers Scott!

Looking at the current timetables its 6 mins between Central - Jesmond now so 2 mins per station now.

 

[142094]

Nice work!

I remember a DM telling me that when metro first opened, drivers were taught to use the harshest braking notch. However due to many metros overshooting platforms, the government threatened to shut them down. And therefore they now brake less harshly so that they have the back up of extra brake power if they need it.

Does anyone know anything more about this?

I got reminded of this by looking at that old timetable - central-jesmond 1 min per station, don't think it's quite that quick these days!

The cars were designed for quick acceleration and braking, as a lot of stations on the original network are spaced close together. There are 4 brake steps used for normal braking - 1, 2, 3 and Full Service, FS being the hardest braking step. In the past drivers were more inclined to power up as fast as possible and use FS, but professional driving policies these days recommend early and light braking, especially during wheelslip.

However in practice, for example South Gosforth to Ilford Road, by the time you have powered up to 80 kmh, the only way you will stop at the correct point at Ilford Road is to use FS.

During the daytime Mon - Sat the working timetable is for 2 minutes between all stations Jesmond - Gateshead, which is far too much time during the off peak, but is needed during peak hours. On evenings and Sundays this drops down to one and a half minutes.

 

[ModernRailways]

DB aren't going to be extending their contract after it expires in 2017.

Discussion about it is in this forum thread.

Just thought I'd let anyone who's subscribed to this thread but doesn't check the other threads know

 

[Scott M]

The cars were designed for quick acceleration and braking, as a lot of stations on the original network are spaced close together. There are 4 brake steps used for normal braking - 1, 2, 3 and Full Service, FS being the hardest braking step. In the past drivers were more inclined to power up as fast as possible and use FS, but professional driving policies these days recommend early and light braking, especially during wheelslip.

However in practice, for example South Gosforth to Ilford Road, by the time you have powered up to 80 kmh, the only way you will stop at the correct point at Ilford Road is to use FS.

During the daytime Mon - Sat the working timetable is for 2 minutes between all stations Jesmond - Gateshead, which is far too much time during the off peak, but is needed during peak hours. On evenings and Sundays this drops down to one and a half minutes.

Thanks for the info! It is definitely more sensible to brake early and light. Also, if it feels anything like what brake testing does, using FS braking as the norm would be rather uncomfortable for passengers.

Regarding the timings through the city centre, I wonder if the extra 30 seconds longer in off-peak, relative to that old timetable Scott posted, is due to no longer accelerating and braking as powerfully as possible.

DB aren't going to be extending their contract after it expires in 2017.

Discussion about it is in this forum thread.

Just thought I'd let anyone who's subscribed to this thread but doesn't check the other threads know

Thanks for the heads up!

The way the cameras are positioned at Haymarket platform 1 means the front doors appear small and the view can be blocked off by passengers just arriving onto the platform.

Bit late to the party but IIRC there's a mirror to allow visualisation of the front doors.

 

[Tetchytyke]

ive also managed to obtain the timetables from 1980 until 1986 with a quick snippet attached below.

That snippet was really interesting. Goes to show just how poor the current service is. Even though the Coast circle has lost 1tph and the service through the core is halved, DB Regio still can't keep the system running to time.

12tph North Shields-Town is something we can only dream of these days. Progress eh!

 

[ModernRailways]

That snippet was really interesting. Goes to show just how poor the current service is. Even though the Coast circle has lost 1tph and the service through the core is halved, DB Regio still can't keep the system running to time.

12tph North Shields-Town is something we can only dream of these days. Progress eh!

Progress. Yes, it is progress.

We could still have that type of service, but the system has been expanded. We have branches to Airport, South Shields, and also the Sunderland extension to South Hylton. All the while we have the same fleet as when the service started way back when.

We had trains every 3 minutes through the core (same as now in the peaks), the majority of those will have been carrying fresh air.

So, this doesn't show how poor the current service is. It just simply shows the lack of investment by Nexus. DB Regio don't have the brand new trains that the timetable would have had. DB Regio can't help that the line was extended to Sunderland but we were given no new rolling stock to coincide with it. The Metrocars are old, past their planned working life, and are being pushed more and more.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I've noticed that some of the units aren't waterproofed anymore, 4005 looks to have had the edges around the panels over door b5 sealed with a shade of black glue due to water intake. I know the units suffered with this in the past, however shouldn't this have been dealt with by woefully funded wabtec?

 

[Scott M]

Anyone else noticed a high pitched sound coming from the trains recently?

 

[MetroCar4058]

Anyone else noticed a high pitched sound coming from the trains recently?

Yeah I have noticed this on some units, I think it's something to do with the heating system (just a correlation mind) this said, I was on 4090 a few days back and there was no sound from the unit at all, no squeaky plastic or rattling, nor the sound of the wheels, just silence!

 

[Scott M]

Yeah I have noticed this on some units, I think it's something to do with the heating system (just a correlation mind) this said, I was on 4090 a few days back and there was no sound from the unit at all, no squeaky plastic or rattling, nor the sound of the wheels, just silence!

Ahh I see.

And it would be very eerie if everything went silent!
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Does anybody know where the disused line that you pass over on the bridge between Hebburn and Pelaw goes to? Been hunting around but can't find anything.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Does anybody know where the disused line that you pass over on the bridge between Hebburn and Pelaw goes to? Been hunting around but can't find anything.

The double track one off to the south is the Leamside Line.

 

[sprinterguy]

Does anybody know where the disused line that you pass over on the bridge between Hebburn and Pelaw goes to? Been hunting around but can't find anything.

The Leamside line, I presume: The "old main line" from Pelaw to Tursdale Junction (Ferryhill) via Washington. Mothballed sinced 1991, much of the track was officially lifted by Network Rail a couple of years ago (and unofficially lifted in places by others previously!).

I'm surprised that you couldn't find mention of it, it tends to figure large in discussions of North East rail infrastructure:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leamside_Line

 

[MetroCar4058]

Does anyone know what the bings (bu,bu) are in the drivers cab? Not the doors clear ping (or brrr depending on the cab)
Also does anyone have any more information on how our INDUSI system works, is it similar to AWS & TPWS?

Cheers for the help!

 

[Scott M]

The double track one off to the south is the Leamside Line.

The Leamside line, I presume: The "old main line" from Pelaw to Tursdale Junction (Ferryhill) via Washington. Mothballed sinced 1991, much of the track was officially lifted by Network Rail a couple of years ago (and unofficially lifted in places by others previously!).

I'm surprised that you couldn't find mention of it, it tends to figure large in discussions of North East rail infrastructure:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leamside_Line

Thank you!

Been reading up on it and it sounds like an interesting addition to the metro line if it ever happened. Pelaw - Washington - Durham...

I had tried looking at Heworth and pelaw stations on wiki (since sometimes it mentions disused lines) but couldn't find it, likewise when I tried searching for "Heworth disused line" etc.

Does anyone know what the bings (bu,bu) are in the drivers cab? Not the doors clear ping (or brrr depending on the cab)
Also does anyone have any more information on how our INDUSI system works, is it similar to AWS & TPWS?

Cheers for the help!

The bings might be the dead mans handle? Although that sounds like more of a "beep beep".

Not so sure about the other stuff though sorry.


Don't know if anybody has noticed this, but when drivers announce a reminder at monument that central is closed so anybody wanting to use central should alight here, and then close the doors the second they stop speaking, feels somewhat pointless to me! As if someone is going to register what the driver has said, get out of their seat and make it to a door within about 3 seconds.

 

[nerd]

Thank you!

Been reading up on it and it sounds like an interesting addition to the metro line if it ever happened. Pelaw - Washington - Durham...

The most common suggestion for using part of the Leamside line in Metro applications would be the transformation of the Sunderland tram-train alignment into a loop; Pelaw, Sunderland, South Hylton, Washington, Pelaw.

Otherwise, the Leamside line north of Chester le Street has been widely proposed as a freight route, reducing pressure on the ECML west of Gateshead. That would then imply a link through Gateshead from the Leamside line to the Team Valley line so as to access the Tyne Yards from the north without interfering with ECML passenger services.

Then again, the Leamside line south of Chester le Street has been proposed as a higher speed bypass for the windy sections of the ECML through Durham city.

It is an interesting speculation how much these various aspirations may be consistent with one another; and if not, who gets first dibs.

On the face of it however, it would be less likely that Metro services would run through the core tunnel; and out to Durham via Washington, as there is limited scope for additional peak capacity to accommodate it. More likely - in my view - would be a reconfiguration of surface level commuter services into Newcastle to use a common Metro replacement stock in longer train formations - e.g triples, like on the DLR. We know that the replacement specification exercise (whose outcome may be published shortly) would envisage the new Metro LRVs to be capable of being fitted with hybrid diesel power - as also 25kv OLE dual voltage, though not at the same time - and that could imply a through-running Metro 'overground' network to complement the current Metro 'underground'.

The Leamside line forms a component of several such plans.

 

[142094]

Could possibly be an outgoing fixed radio status, which is two beeps. Incoming status is one beep.

A series of loud beeps is the Driver Vigilance Device which goes off every 45 seconds unless cancelled.

Indusi works by having a magnet on the track and a transponder under the train. When a signal is at danger, the magnet frequency is set at a particular level (can't remember the exact hz level) which is picked up by the transponder and the track brake applies. If the signal is off, the hz level is lower. Similarly in areas where there are speed magnets, the magnet is set at the higher level for a set time, so if the driver covers the distance between a strike in point and the magnet in too short a time (i.e. going too fast) the track brake applies.

Note that unlike AWS there is no audible or visual warning of a single yellow aspect, the driver has to remember what the aspect was showing and brake accordingly.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Cheers for the information everyone!

I've noticed that most units, when they have waterproofing issues, leak from a similar area. Is there any vulnerable/hotspots for this fault to develop?

Also, while travelling on 4076 a few days ago, the unit was suffering from some traction issues, I assume due to the rain or slight flats (?) this created possibly the worst ever metallic smell I've had on a MetroCar and some passengers were getting rather worried and coughing a little bit.
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It appears that Nexus Rail and their contractors are struggling to deliver the programme of works around the Coast, with the major closure being delayed by a few hours and today's overrunning engineering works; this performance is sightly worrying.

 

[ModernRailways]

It appears that Nexus Rail and their contractors are struggling to deliver the programme of works around the Coast, with the major closure being delayed by a few hours and today's overrunning engineering works; this performance is sightly worrying.

The major 15 day closure finished on time? Trains were running as they should have been at the start of service.

This weekends line closure overran. And it was only an hour, which from what I've heard was them taking all the machinery away at North Shields.

 

[MetroCar4058]

The major line closure overran for around 2-3 hours. Yesterday however wasn't too bad,although a taxi service through the peak wasn't exactly a recipe for success.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It appears that Nexus Rail and their contractors are struggling to deliver the programme of works around the Coast, with the major closure being delayed by a few hours and today's overrunning engineering works; this performance is sightly worrying.

The major 15 day closure finished bang on time. The engineering work this weekend overran by a few hours, but trains were up and running by 7.45am. It wasn't a great start to the week, especially as they had to use taxis to replace the service as the usual 900 contractors were all busy with schools services, but it's hardly the disaster you're determined to paint it as.

 

[142094]

The 15 day closure overran due to a points failure at Monkseaton.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Services severely disrupted this morning due to defective doors- yet again- with most peak trains being cancelled.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sojs9o

I know the trains are old but come on DB Regio, this is getting beyond a joke now.

 

[tjohnson86]

Services severely disrupted this morning due to defective doors- yet again- with most peak trains being cancelled.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sojs9o

I know the trains are old but come on DB Regio, this is getting beyond a joke now.

I see the Facebook page went crazy when this was mentioned... In truth I don't see how this is DB Regio's fault. This should have been looked at when the trains were refurbished. At least the normal services were not affected.

On another note, is there any update regarding 4077? Also has 4083 been back in service yet?

 

[Paul_10]

I see the Facebook page went crazy when this was mentioned... In truth I don't see how this is DB Regio's fault. This should have been looked at when the trains were refurbished. At least the normal services were not affected.

On another note, is there any update regarding 4077? Also has 4083 been back in service yet?

In fairness, passengers would because for them its another excuse unfortunately. Wonder what the issue was in respect how it was 'safe' for all the units to be out in service until they were checked.

4083 is on one of the outside stabling roads with its pantograph up. All of the windows looks like they have been replaced so there is no vinyl on them anymore, whether its any closer to returning to service or not who knows.

4002 could not be seen and 4040+4001 were still paired together yesterday.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I agree, DB have struggled to run a good service over the past few days, although I do wonder how severe the nature is of the door release issue.

One of my biggest worries is the poor maintenance of the stock, most of them seem awfully tired and are little on what they were when they came back from Wabtec; obviously the work was done on the cheap but some of the most important things, passenger announcement services, door seals, articulate rubber etc are simply shocking and are clearly suffering a lack of maintenance. Have staffing levels at the depot decreased since DB took over?

The MetroCar in my eyes is a fantastic design of rolling stock. However poor maintance, lacklustre refurbishments and the subsequent life extensions have given the stock a poor name; for the most part they are reliable, comfortable and have served T&W well. I anticipate that any future stock will lack the character of the MetroCar; I only hope that we get a train based replacement and hopefully with a purpose built design.

I think Nexus should look into investing in a similar on train announcement system to the LUL. Things such as automated real time travel information for commuters who could then plan their journey more efficiently. Another element I was impressed with is the announcement regarding which side the doors will open which would be a fantastic area of success for visitors. Hopefully this will be integrated on the specification for our downgraded rolling stock.

 

[Tramfan]

I agree, DB have struggled to run a good service over the past few days, although I do wonder how severe the nature is of the door release issue.

Seems to be getting worse, don't think there were any peak extras run this evening. They seemed to have staff on the platforms at Haymarket, Monument and Central Station, presumably to prevent trains from becoming too overcrowded
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some of the most important things, passenger announcement services, door seals, articulate rubber etc are simply shocking

Was on 4040 for the first time in quite a while today, and it was such a difference being on a train that didn't have a constant screeching rubber noise.

There's also a considerably number of trains with worn sounding tyres, causing horrendous vibrations in the saloon.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Was on 4040 for the first time in quite a while today, and it was such a difference being on a train that didn't have a constant screeching rubber noise.

There's also a considerably number of trains with worn sounding tyres, causing horrendous vibrations in the saloon.

If I'm honest, I believe the pre refurbished MetroCars were much better than their successors; back in the good old days of 'the next station is!'

I agree flats seem to be a major issue with the MetroCars, hopefully DB can work on this in the coming months.