Virgin Trains (West Coast) - "Priority boarding"

[All Line Rover]

For the past fortnight or so, Virgin Trains WC has been sending me text messages for journeys departing from Euston station which I have booked through their website. The first message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is nearly ready". The second message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is ready on platform 7. You're in coach B seats 19, 20". The second message doesn't always arrive, so the system isn't flawless.

Initially I thought this was a good idea. Not anymore. Virgin have put up a poster at Euston station saying that they have introduced a "priority boarding" service - a service that is ONLY available to passengers booking (and, of course, reserving) through their own website.

This is a ridiculous policy. Firstly, if a train is ready for some to board (which may be a substantial number), it is ready for all to board. Deliberately keeping passengers on the concourse at Euston when a train is ready to board is unacceptable. Secondly, are passengers going to need to book through the VTWC booking engine for journeys from Euston station, the VTEC booking engine for journeys from Kings Cross station, the EMT booking engine for journeys from St Pancras station, the GWR booking engine for journeys from Paddington station, and so on, in order not to have to wait unduly for their platform (if they are unwilling or unable to look up this publicly accessible information on their smartphone)? Of course not! Somehow only Virgin is capable of coming up with such stupid ideas.

I would also expect operators of rival booking websites, as well as travel agents etc., to be entitled to complain about Virgin's behaviour, which gives Virgin an unfair competitive advantage. These rivals are instructed by ATOC not to provide platform information until it is displayed on station departure boards. Why should Virgin be entitled to an exception?

I have only received a few text messages so far so I am unable to say how far in advance the text with the platform number is sent compared to when the platform number is displayed on the departure boards.

 

[Llanigraham]

Sounds a very sensible idea. Why shouldn't those that have made reservations get on first, and secure their seats?

Still another rant about Virgin is to be expected on here!

 

[jp4712]

There's already a priority boarding service at Euston. It's called realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Starmill]

Because it's clear there is a relevant concern here about competition policy. Users of the open data are iirc not permitted to share some of this information before it becomes publically accessible.

I don't really see how this will help in any case, because it will just mean that passengers using flexible tickets they bought on the day will bave a smaller and smaller choice of seats. What's needed to improve the customer experience at Euston is quicker turnarounds, not gimmicks like this or the reservation level indicators.

 

[notlob.divad]

Sounds a very sensible idea. Why shouldn't those that have made reservations get on first, and secure their seats?

Still another rant about Virgin is to be expected on here!

That isn't how I read AllLineRovers post. It isn't about people who have made a seat reservation, it is only for people who have made a reservation through Virgin West Coast's own website. Therefore if you have booked a through journey, via another operators website or a third party website you will not get this priority boarding.

It is little things like this and the discount fares available if you are Only travelling on their services i.e no connections that really annoy me. I have to travel one stop on a Northern connecting service to access the WCML at Virgin's cheap tickets it costs me £10 to get from the WCML stop to Euston and £4 to get to the WCML. However if I book that as a through journey with the same connection at the same station (even through Virgins website), I am not entitled to the £14 fare and the it costs 4x as much.

These gimmicks are breaking apart the interconnected nature of the railways. No wonder everyone wants a direct train to everywhere.

 

[DarloRich]

For the past fortnight or so, Virgin Trains WC has been sending me text messages for journeys departing from Euston station which I have booked through their website. The first message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is nearly ready". The second message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is ready on platform 7. You're in coach B seats 19, 20". The second message doesn't always arrive, so the system isn't flawless.

Initially I thought this was a good idea. Not anymore. Virgin have put up a poster at Euston station saying that they have introduced a "priority boarding" service - a service that is ONLY available to passengers booking (and, of course, reserving) through their own website.

This is a ridiculous policy. Firstly, if a train is ready for some to board (which may be a substantial number), it is ready for all to board. Deliberately keeping passengers on the concourse at Euston when a train is ready to board is unacceptable. Secondly, are passengers going to need to book through the VTWC booking engine for journeys from Euston station, the VTEC booking engine for journeys from Kings Cross station, the EMT booking engine for journeys from St Pancras station, the GWR booking engine for journeys from Paddington station, and so on, in order not to have to wait unduly for their platform (if they are unwilling or unable to look up this publicly accessible information on their smartphone)? Of course not! Somehow only Virgin is capable of coming up with such stupid ideas.

I would also expect operators of rival booking websites, as well as travel agents etc., to be entitled to complain about Virgin's behaviour, which gives Virgin an unfair competitive advantage. These rivals are instructed by ATOC not to provide platform information until it is displayed on station departure boards. Why should Virgin be entitled to an exception?

I have only received a few text messages so far so I am unable to say how far in advance the text with the platform number is sent compared to when the platform number is displayed on the departure boards.

That isn't how I read AllLineRovers post. It isn't about people who have made a seat reservation, it is only for people who have made a reservation through Virgin West Coast's own website. Therefore if you have booked a through journey, via another operators website or a third party website you will not get this priority boarding.

I don't see the issue, really. If you book a seat you will still get a seat which you will still be entitled to sit in for your journey. it makes no difference if you join the train 5 or 7 minutes early. Your seat is still available! It also has no impact on the person without a reservation. They still have to scrum down and try and find a seat just like now.

If this meant that people with booked seats were unable to use their booked seats as a "Virgin priority customer" was allowed to override that booking I might be keen to board the outrage bus. However this seems like an attempt by Virgin to drive website traffic (and thus profit) by making their passengers seem that bit more important, much like an airport. It is clearly a PR job and hardly worth the froth!

 

[Kristofferson]

Exactly, it's a PR exercise. The information is available on RTT and the signalling displays on OTT. You could even build your own departure board or text alert service using the API, which I did during my commuter days


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Llanigraham]

That isn't how I read AllLineRovers post. It isn't about people who have made a seat reservation, it is only for people who have made a reservation through Virgin West Coast's own website. Therefore if you have booked a through journey, via another operators website or a third party website you will not get this priority boarding.

It is little things like this and the discount fares available if you are Only travelling on their services i.e no connections that really annoy me. I have to travel one stop on a Northern connecting service to access the WCML at Virgin's cheap tickets it costs me £10 to get from the WCML stop to Euston and £4 to get to the WCML. However if I book that as a through journey with the same connection at the same station (even through Virgins website), I am not entitled to the £14 fare and the it costs 4x as much.

These gimmicks are breaking apart the interconnected nature of the railways. No wonder everyone wants a direct train to everywhere.

Sorry, but that still doesn't persuade me this isn't a good idea. Sounds like it will make my journeys back from London much easier.

And to be honest, we know that the OP will look for any excuse to criticise Virgin.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't see the issue, really. If you book a seat you will still get a seat which you will still be entitled to sit in for your journey. it makes no difference if you join the train 5 or 7 minutes early.

...except when the reservation system fails. Which, lets face it, isn't exactly an unheard of situation with the Pendolino and Voyager trains. It also makes a big difference on busy trains whether you'll actually find space for your luggage.

I think sending text messages is a good idea. Calling it "priority boarding"- knowing all the DYKWIAing that you get with priority boarding at airports- is an absolutely stupid idea. Trying to get the animals to queue properly in the Euston Zoo is bad enough as it is, without giving people the idea that they can queue jump with a text message.

I agree with the OP. Either the train is ready for boarding or it isn't. And if it is ready for boarding it should be announced on the departure boards not on a text message.

 

[ScotTrains]

It would be nice if everyone who has a seat reserved, no matter where they bought their ticket, received priority boarding on busy services. It shouldn't just be for those who booked through the Virgin website.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The trouble with booking seats on Virgin's website is that they will not post tickets to you by normal Royal Mail, no matter how early you book. As I have mentioned on another thread, you have to pay £7.50 special delivery or go to one of a small number of nominated stations to pick up your ticket. In my case, that means making an extra 10 or 16 mile journey to Chester or Liverpool as there are no "pick up" stations on the Wirral.

The alternative is to pick up your ticket en route - not easy with 8 minute connections at Chester - and very risky if you have an Advance ticket. Or forego through ticketing and pay an extra local fare, often quite expensive if you are not coming back the same day.

 

[Minilad]

Why do people who have a seat reserved need to get on first. You already have your seat. People without reservations should be the first on.
Having said that on VT out of Euston a big percentage of reserved seats end up not getting used anyway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To be fair it isn't a small number of nominated stations, it's the vast majority of stations with a TVM. The problem for you is that Merseyrail do not take their participation in the National Rail network seriously.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sounds a very sensible idea. Why shouldn't those that have made reservations get on first, and secure their seats?

Provided they do secure their booked seat and not choose another, yes, it would avoid arguments.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think sending text messages is a good idea. Calling it "priority boarding"- knowing all the DYKWIAing that you get with priority boarding at airports- is an absolutely stupid idea.

As things were, priority boarding used to substitute for seat reservations. As it is now it's a bit pointless other than that those sitting in the exit row need to ensure space in the overheads for bags as they can't go under the seat. Though the same thing could be achieved by closing the bins on the exit row seats until the passengers for those seats board.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Why do people who have a seat reserved need to get on first. You already have your seat. People without reservations should be the first on.
Having said that on VT out of Euston a big percentage of reserved seats end up not getting used anyway.

It's quite simple. Get the reserved seat people in their seat, so that people who do not have a reservation don't come and sit in it. It happens all the time and the TM won't intervene aside from asking said passenger to move (they normally won't move).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be fair it isn't a small number of nominated stations, it's the vast majority of stations with a TVM. The problem for you is that Merseyrail do not take their participation in the National Rail network seriously.

Agreed. It's not VT's fault that Merseyrail won't allow collection of VT tickets from their TVMs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. It's not VT's fault that Merseyrail won't allow collection of VT tickets from their TVMs.

It's a symptom of wider issues with Merseyrail, who I personally think should be told to comply with National Rail norms or get out completely and operate independently like Metrolink. But that's one for another thread.

 

[scotsman]

If it stops the usual 'you're sat in my seat' arguments, then I'm all for it

 

[tbtc]

I normally travel on unreserved tickets (due to travel plans not always being easy to predict...), but I think this is a good idea.

If the "reserved" passengers have boarded before me then that means that I have a good chance of being able to sit in any vacant seat once I'm on the train (because the person with the reserved ticket isn't boarding).

If everyone gets on at the same time then I don't know whether to sit in a "reserved" seat, given that there's maybe a 25% chance that the person with the reservation won't be boarding, I have to deal with uncertainty.

The only comment I'd make is that I think passengers ought to pay a little something for the reservation, but that's a whole other argument!

For the past fortnight or so, Virgin Trains WC has been sending me text messages for journeys departing from Euston station which I have booked through their website. The first message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is nearly ready". The second message says "Your 12:00 train to Stockport is ready on platform 7. You're in coach B seats 19, 20"

Aww, this sounds good, a positive thread about Virgin, sounds an excellent idea for dealing with the Euston scrum, I'm glad that you are drawing it to our attention...

Somehow only Virgin is capable of coming up with such stupid ideas

...oh.

Sounds a very sensible idea. Why shouldn't those that have made reservations get on first, and secure their seats?

Still another rant about Virgin is to be expected on here!

Agreed

I don't really see how this will help in any case, because it will just mean that passengers using flexible tickets they bought on the day will bave a smaller and smaller choice of seats

How does this mean a "smaller choice of seats" for flexible/ unreserved passengers?

It just means that the "reserved" passengers will be sat in the appropriate seat when the "unreserved" passengers board.

It is clearly a PR job and hardly worth the froth!

Agreed

Why do people who have a seat reserved need to get on first. You already have your seat. People without reservations should be the first on

Eh?

Let's pretend there are two passengers - A and B. A has a reserved seat on the train.

If passenger A gets on first, they sit in their seat, all is as it should be.

If passenger B gets on first, they sit in A's seat, A then has to turf them out, potentially causing arguments and also disrupting the flow of passengers who are trying to walk along the coach.

Why do you prefer the second scenario?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only comment I'd make is that I think passengers ought to pay a little something for the reservation, but that's a whole other argument!

I agree. £2 would seem a sensible sum, and it would reduce the number of "I might as well, it's free" type réservations in a similar way that the 5p bag "tax" has reduced carrier bag usage.

If £1 was refunded for cancelling a reservation, all the better, the system would be yet more trustworthy.

 

[Minilad]

Eh?

Let's pretend there are two passengers - A and B. A has a reserved seat on the train.

If passenger A gets on first, they sit in their seat, all is as it should be.

If passenger B gets on first, they sit in A's seat, A then has to turf them out, potentially causing arguments and also disrupting the flow of passengers who are trying to walk along the coach.

Why do you prefer the second scenario?

Passenger B shouldn't be sitting in the seat anyway. And in my experience you are more likely to be held up walking though a train by people with seat reservations stumbling up the train with bags and all sorts with a piece of paper in their hand looking for their seat

 

[The Ham]

If some people get on the train first then that means that:
- there are less people trying to get through the ticket barriers when I am (either as they get on first or I am getting on first)
- linked to the above there are less people in my way when I am walking through the train trying to find my seat as either I will have an empty train to look through or some of them will have sat down already
- if I don't have a seat reservation I have a greater chance of knowing which seats are available to me
- I'm going to spend long enough on the train as it is, as such I don't care if I have to wait for a few minutes longer not sat on the train before I can get on
- If I do have a reservation I can spend more time not in the crowd of people straining my neck looking at the departure boards

All in all it sounds a good idea to me.

 

[96tommy]

I just use realtimetrains, more so at Euston or the Cross, normally 1st one and get a choice of seats. I wonder if VTEC will trial something similar at King's Cross

 

[sdrennan]

I personally very rarely sit in allocated seat and will always look for table, power, window.
I would just use this a way if skipping the queue if I knew earlier than the rest

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Let's pretend there are two passengers - A and B. A has a reserved seat on the train.

If passenger A gets on first, they sit in their seat, all is as it should be.

If passenger B gets on first, they sit in A's seat, A then has to turf them out, potentially causing arguments and also disrupting the flow of passengers who are trying to walk along the coach.

Or, passenger A gets on first, sits in the unreserved seat next to his reserved seat, passenger B then ignores the vacant reserved seat. Result passenger A gets a double seat to himself, unless passenger B comes back down the train after departure looking for a 'no-show' to sit in.

Also, an assumption could build whereby 'reserved and therefore priority' passengers are then expected to board first and if you don't do so you lose your reserved seat. The advantage of having a reservation is the ability not to have to run down the ramp with the herd trying for one of the unreserved seats available.

I would accept a priority system for all pre-booked passengers, if it was merely for a seat on a particular train rather than a specified seat, as London Midland operate, and as operates at peak holiday periods. I don't favour further subdivisions. What next? Priority boarding for those with suitcases, but not rucksacks

 

[Puffing Devil]

I got the text last Sunday. I was already waiting at the barrier, thanks to RTT

I think it's a good idea - reducing the Euston rush and crush, getting people in their seats sooner, makes it clearer which seats may not be taken.

 

[Agent_c]

I swear, it's getting to the point where if Virgin gave out free lollipops someone on here would bash Virgin for not thinking of diabetics. They can't seem to do anything right.

If Virgin want to give an extra free perk for booking with them, like miles or priority boarding, great. Everyone else still gets exactly what they paid for - a train ride.

I really don't see why we need to create a mountain here.

 

[800001]

The trouble with booking seats on Virgin's website is that they will not post tickets to you by normal Royal Mail, no matter how early you book. As I have mentioned on another thread, you have to pay £7.50 special delivery or go to one of a small number of nominated stations to pick up your ticket. In my case, that means making an extra 10 or 16 mile journey to Chester or Liverpool as there are no "pick up" stations on the Wirral.

The alternative is to pick up your ticket en route - not easy with 8 minute connections at Chester - and very risky if you have an Advance ticket. Or forego through ticketing and pay an extra local fare, often quite expensive if you are not coming back the same day.

Ive booked numerous times from both virgin websites, both times normal post dispatched tickets, tickets arrived the next day. never paid £7.50.

 

[The Ham]

If Virgin want to give an extra free perk for booking with them, like miles or priority boarding, great. Everyone else still gets exactly what they paid for - a train ride.

Quite, there are plenty of ways you can buy tickets. You pick the one that best suites you.

If you want to earn Nectar points there are a few to pick from, if you want priority boarding on your Virgin train you do so through their site, if you want to talk face to face with someone or you need a ticket very soon you buy them at the station, if you want to pay a booking fee...

 

[Robertj21a]

It all seems very sensible to me, what is supposed to be the problem ?

 

[Agent_c]

It all seems very sensible to me, what is supposed to be the problem ?

The problem is you don't get this perk if you book somehwere else, as far as I can determine.

 

[DarloRich]

The problem is you don't get this perk if you book somehwere else, as far as I can determine.

so what? Do you sill get your reserved seat?