TPE franchise awarded to First

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Next stop for Transdev is Blackburn Accrington Manchester starting this weekend

What difference will there be to the existing X41 service that is run by Lancashire United?

 

[bluenoxid]

What difference will there be to the existing X41 service that is run by Lancashire United?

High spec buses and timetable tweaks. Not transformative

http://www.lancashirebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=1667

 

[yorksrob]

Probably not. 6/7 trains per hour with ongoing services elsewhere with contracted structure specifying the services being run vs a half hourly bus operation. The interesting bit will be the traffic. Makes the trains nice and quiet

Next stop for Transdev is Blackburn Accrington Manchester starting this weekend

For the most part, its not the physical nature of the service that's the issue, more the pricing structure.

 

[Starmill]

What's the non-promotional bus day return? If it's still £8, that's a modest £5 saving over the CDR, and a whole £0.65 saving for a railcard holder.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Indeed. Will it make the railway up its game.

Well the upgrade of the TP line *is* the railway upping its game.

 

[Starmill]

Well the upgrade of the TP line *is* the railway upping its game.

Between York and Leeds? Yeah, in 2022.

 

[yorksrob]

Well the upgrade of the TP line *is* the railway upping its game.

I suppose so, so long as it includes pricing as well.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Between York and Leeds? Yeah, in 2022.

Yes, but if that's the fastest it can arrive, then it's being upgraded as fast as is possible.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Using the new CityZap service is around 50% cheaper than a rail season ticket! Wonder how long it takes between the two cities particularly during rush hour.

isn't ZAP's USP that it's very limited stop service is not bound to particular roads

however i suspect that will work until a vehicle manages to get wedged somewhere ...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Between York and Leeds? Yeah, in 2022.

Thought York to Leeds was coming quicker than the rest of the route?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Just officially announced. 19 5 car bi-modes to be built at Newton Aycliffe for December 2018 for North TPE routes

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just officially announced. 19 5 car bi-modes to be built at Newton Aycliffe for December 2018 for North TPE routes

Sounds good, aka "what was needed in the first place" . Owt yet on the other stuff, or are we waiting until tomorrow now?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just officially announced. 19 5 car bi-modes to be built at Newton Aycliffe for December 2018 for North TPE routes

Maintained by Hitachi at Craigentinny and Doncaster, with overnight servicing at Edge Hill, Heaton and York.
It says the "majority" of the carriages will be built/assembled at Newton Aycliffe.
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hitach...arriages-from-uk-manufacturer-hitachi-1358826

The other 25 trains of the order for 44 also seems destined for Hitachi:
This is from the Hitachi MD in their press release:

The new TPE franchise will deliver a total of 44 new state of the art trains.
A deal for the procurement of the remaining 25 new trains is expected to be finalised soon.
The first of these trains will be delivered in Spring 2018

 

[NJF]

Global Rail News has some pictures of what looks to be the trains in the new livery too: http://www.globalrailnews.com/2016/03/31/new-bi-mode-trains-for-transpennine-express/

 

[northwichcat]

Maintained at Craigentinny and Doncaster, with overnight servicing at Edge Hill, Heaton and York.
It says the "majority" of the carriages will be build at Newton Aycliffe.
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hitach...arriages-from-uk-manufacturer-hitachi-1358826

The other 25 trains of the order for 44 also seems destined for Hitachi:
This is from the Hitachi MD in their press release:

Unless they've just changed it the word used is assembled, with a footer note:

The initial trains will be built at Hitachi’s Kasado Works in Japan, with the majority to be assembled at Hitachi’s Rail Vehicle Manufacturing Facility at Newton Aycliffe, County Durham

 

[Blamethrower]

colour scheme is so-so

but don't trains look better without that silly yellow front end?

Finally, trains that don't look like we're stuck in the 60s

 

[61653 HTAFC]

colour scheme is so-so

but don't trains look better without that silly yellow front end?

Finally, trains that don't look like we're stuck in the 60s

Trains without yellow ends will take some getting used to. Though now that the requirements for yellow ends no longer applies (subject to headlights etc, of course!) I have to wonder if black is the wisest choice? Good for cleaning, not so great for track workers l fear...

 

[Bletchleyite]

The livery has a bit much FirstPurplePinkPuke(f) for my liking. I suspect it'll grow on me, though.

The choice of trains I think is a good one - proper InterCity returns to TPE, finally.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Nice to have all the rumours finally confirmed. Will be interesting to see what the other half of the order is. Are we expecting that any time soon?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other 25 trains of the order for 44 also seems destined for Hitachi:
This is from the Hitachi MD in their press release:

IEP EMU on the WCML would be most welcome - more "proper InterCity" rather than suburban EMUs, and more spacious and bigger windows than Pendolinos.

This would make me choose TPE whenever possible, rather than avoiding it.

Quite a transformation.

 

[northwichcat]

I have to wonder if black is the wisest choice? Good for cleaning, not so great for track workers l fear...

Someone jokingly told the designers "The front no longer has to be yellow, it can be any colour you want as long as it's black." '

 

[YorkshireBear]

IEP EMU on the WCML would be most welcome - more "proper InterCity" rather than suburban EMUs, and more spacious and bigger windows than Pendolinos.

This would make me choose TPE whenever possible, rather than avoiding it.

Quite a transformation.

I would not be so sure that the other stock is Hitachi At300s.

The rumours going round (which included this rumour which transpired to be true) is that it will be CAF supplying the rest as a mix of intercity EMUs and Loco Hauled.

Although it still says Intercity so hopefully better than the 350s.

I think Hitachi have got their work cut out with the IEP, Scotrail and AT300 orders.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I would not be so sure that the other stock is Hitachi At300s.

The rumours going round (which included this rumour which transpired to be true) is that it will be CAF supplying the rest as a mix of intercity EMUs and Loco Hauled.

Although it still says Intercity so hopefully better than the 350s.

I think Hitachi have got their work cut out with the IEP, Scotrail and AT300 orders.

One thing in particular occurs to me on the basis of this announcement and the strong rumours about the rest of the fleet:

When the 6tph plans were announced, it was specified that the return of a true local stopping service between Huddersfield and Leeds/Manchester would be subject to a business case once the wires are up, but given the likelihood of TPE having a fully "intercity" fleet would suggest that local EMU services are more likely, eventually.

 

[northwichcat]

I would not be so sure that the other stock is Hitachi At300s.

The rumours going round (which included this rumour which transpired to be true) is that it will be CAF supplying the rest as a mix of intercity EMUs and Loco Hauled.

Although it still says Intercity so hopefully better than the 350s.

I think Hitachi have got their work cut out with the IEP, Scotrail and AT300 orders.

First had the option of an add-on to the existing AT300 order for GWR and Hull Trains so it sounds like they've done that. It also sounds like the new TPE Hitachi trains will be maintained at the same locations as the VTEC ones opposed to a TPE facility, which to me suggests it's just one small Hitachi order for TPE.

The other option for North TPE needs delivering quicker due to the TPE timetable - so new unpowered carriages initially used with existing locos sounds plausible, with CAF producing a variant of their product for the Scotrail sleeper probably what can be put in to service fastest.

Then for WCML services they will need to have evaluated options which will allow over 110mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When the 6tph plans were announced, it was specified that the return of a true local stopping service between Huddersfield and Leeds/Manchester would be subject to a business case once the wires are up, but given the likelihood of TPE having a fully "intercity" fleet would suggest that local EMU services are more likely, eventually.

Just thinking about this I wonder if both semi-fasts will go to Hull once Manchester-York is wired and more 185s are freed up, then once Hull is wired (further in to the future) maybe a fleet of 10 x regional EMUs for Manchester-Hull services could be procured? I certainly can't see TPE getting 3 or 4 regional EMUs for an hourly Manchester-Leeds, they'll just use 185s despite it being fully electrified.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think the local will come back once they have the capability to do so. The new all fangled intercity sparkly tpe franchise really doesnt want to stop at Morley batley Marsden etc for any longer than neccesary.

 

[159220]

Slight design change, or not. Is it a hybrid between the original Class 395 AT-300s and the Class 800/801/802 AT-300 or just a Class800/801/802 design.

Hitachi show hybrid:

Globalrailnews show Class80x:

 

[lejog]

The other 25 trains of the order for 44 also seems destined for Hitachi:
This is from the Hitachi MD in their press release:

The new TPE franchise will deliver a total of 44 new state of the art trains.
A deal for the procurement of the remaining 25 new trains is expected to be finalised soon.
The first of these trains will be delivered in Spring 2018

A confusing press release I agree, but the quote about the remaining 25 trains is OUTSIDE the quotation marks of the Hitachi MD's quote. I would guess these comments really belong in the quote from TPE.

 

[Mordac]

I don't see what benefits any non-tilting stock will have over the 350s for the WCML services, other than enthusiasts thinking the latter aren't "proper" intercity trains, whatever that means. As someone who uses these services several times a week over long distances, I find them very comfortable and actually prefer the mid-coach doors: they make boarding a much speedier affair compared with a Pendo or a Voyager. The only improvements I'd make is to catering and more importantly, add free wifi. If they're going to get non-tilting stock for this route, I'd rather they just took the money and put it towards upgrading Carstairs junction instead.

 

[NotATrainspott]

First had the option of an add-on to the existing AT300 order for GWR and Hull Trains so it sounds like they've done that. It also sounds like the new TPE Hitachi trains will be maintained at the same locations as the VTEC ones opposed to a TPE facility, which to me suggests it's just one small Hitachi order for TPE.

The other option for North TPE needs delivering quicker due to the TPE timetable - so new unpowered carriages initially used with existing locos sounds plausible, with CAF producing a variant of their product for the Scotrail sleeper probably what can be put in to service fastest.

Then for WCML services they will need to have evaluated options which will allow over 110mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Just thinking about this I wonder if both semi-fasts will go to Hull once Manchester-York is wired and more 185s are freed up, then once Hull is wired (further in to the future) maybe a fleet of 10 x regional EMUs for Manchester-Hull services could be procured? I certainly can't see TPE getting 3 or 4 regional EMUs for an hourly Manchester-Leeds, they'll just use 185s despite it being fully electrified.

From the press photos it appears that the AT300s ordered are the same end doored, 26m configuration as the other Class 80x trains. That will help make it trivial to cascade them in future once so many bi-mode trains are not needed on TP North.

The idea of new LHCS is one that I still don't think is going to be likely until I see it. Once the wiring is complete, these carriages would be functionally no different to the Mk4 fleet which won't be able to find a home after service on the ECML. Even if these carriages could be procured faster than other trains I can't see a ROSCO ever financing them given that the only reason why loco hauled trains are introduced - the DMU shortage - is now effectively over. If capacity were required in the short term then a follow-on order for more of the same DMUs being ordered for Northern would be the least-bad option. DMUs would be in the same production slot in the CAF factory as more unpowered carriages would be and then they'll have a full life ahead of them if the findings of the rolling stock report are correct. Even if they only stayed around for a few years until Hitachi could deliver more AT300s it would be an option.

One possibility which I've thought about is that the new EMUs for use on Scotland services could instead be dragged over the Pennines by 68s. What the manufacturers would offer for the WCML services would also probably be what they offer the ICWC bidders for any possible Class 221 replacements, so it will almost certainly be the case that the trains will be able to be dragged in service by a diesel locomotive. An EMU could run at 125mph on the ECML, join up to a 68 at York and then be dragged to Victoria, then using electric power while still coupled to the loco to get to Lime Street.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Slight design change. A hybrid between the original Class 395 AT-300s and the Class 800/801/802 AT-300

For what? The ones announced today appear to be simple Class 800s with uprated engines, fuel tanks and braking resistors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't see what benefits any non-tilting stock will have over the 350s for the WCML services, other than enthusiasts thinking the latter aren't "proper" intercity trains, whatever that means. As someone who uses these services several times a week over long distances, I find them very comfortable and actually prefer the mid-coach doors: they make boarding a much speedier affair compared with a Pendo or a Voyager. The only improvements I'd make is to catering and more importantly, add free wifi. If they're going to get non-tilting stock for this route, I'd rather they just took the money and put it towards upgrading Carstairs junction instead.

350s aren't bad, but new-generation Desiros are nicer, IMO. The Class 380, despite being a suburban EMU, has a much more InterCity feel to it for some reason - possibly the 23m vehicles help.