Arriva plans a major review in Leicester

[overthewater]

Has anyone else heard anymore about this? The company will invest £13.4million across nine routes, with 81 buses being refusbished.

 

[ivanhoe]

I always get worried about words like major review. Does it mean closing some routes down and piling extra cash into its money spinners? Arriva are currently plying the routes that its predecessor Midland Fox did, bar a couple of additions and reviews!

 

[Volvodart]

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/partners-container-page/partners-home/press-releases/midlands-press-releases/arriva-reaches-for-the-stars-with-revived-leicester-bus-network/

Leicester’s buses will be shining even brighter this year, as Arriva announces £13.4million of investment set to transform nine of its routes into the stars of the city’s transport network.

Supporting the business’ on-going commitment to enhancing customer experience through providing better quality bus travel, approximately 50 per cent of Arriva’s entire Leicester fleet is to receive a major upgrade either through vehicle refurbishment, or punctuality improvements, with routes 47/48 (Wigston circular), 58/58A (Hamilton and Netherhall), 53/53A (Thurnby Lodge) and 158 (Nuneaton) having already undergone facelifts in recent months.

In the run up to Autumn this year, customers can expect to see the enhancements gradually take shape across the network, with all improved routes being emblazoned with giant stars once work is complete, just to let people know that they can expect to enjoy either a new-look bus or a superior service should they choose to get on-board.

Simon Mathieson, Area Managing Director for Arriva East Midlands, explained: “We always aim to provide the best service possible for our customers where and when they most need it, but we recognised that many of our Leicester routes were in need of a revamp to bring them up to the high standards that our customers deserve.

“We are committed to showcasing just how great bus travel can be, and in doing so, not only giving something back to our regular customers, but also hopefully encouraging many more to take a closer look, and find out just how brightly our new stars shine!”

Each of the nine routes, 81 vehicles in total, will be assessed individually for the improvements they require, be that new seating, Wi-Fi, or additional buses added to the timetables to boost punctuality and frequency where needed.

Routes 50/50A (Narborough and Croft) and 84/85 (Lutterworth) will be some of those bolstered, as will 126 (Coalville); 14 (New Parks), and 49/49A/49B (South Wigston and Kibwoth).

For more details about our routes or to plan or track your journeys in real time, please visit www.arrivabus.co.uk/midlands - See more at: https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/partner...d-leicester-bus-network/#sthash.MmSGWPfl.dpuf

 

[AB93]

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/partners-container-page/partners-home/press-releases/midlands-press-releases/arriva-reaches-for-the-stars-with-revived-leicester-bus-network/

"In the run up to Autumn this year, customers can expect to see the enhancements gradually take shape across the network, with all improved routes being emblazoned with giant stars once work is complete, just to let people know that they can expect to enjoy either a new-look bus or a superior service should they choose to get on-board."

Sounds like they're dangerously close to going down the road of the classic old-First mistake of staring certain buses which somehow were more important than others in the fleet.

What happens if you use a service which isn't starred?

 

[BestWestern]

I'm familiar with one if these 'network recasts'; by Barbie, on the south coast. It's awful.

 

[Mvann]

I'm afraid when I go home, the odd occasion I go into town, I tend to use stagecoach these days as they run later than arriva.

 

[Robertj21a]

I'm afraid when I go home, the odd occasion I go into town, I tend to use stagecoach these days as they run later than arriva.

Well I'm not surprised you use Stagecoach when your location suggests Peterborough - Arriva don't run anywhere near !!

 

[Mvann]

Well I'm not surprised you use Stagecoach when your location suggests Peterborough - Arriva don't run anywhere near !!

Let me rephrase that. When I go home to the glorious village of kibworth beauchamp, when I go into town, I use united counties stagecoach rather than arriva fox county.

 

[Robertj21a]

Let me rephrase that. When I go home to the glorious village of kibworth beauchamp, when I go into town, I use united counties stagecoach rather than arriva fox county.

Ah, understood. Even if United Counties and Fox County no longer exist !

At least you can now have a different route through Kibworth on Arriva's diverted X3.

 

[Qwerty133]

Long overdue... although nothing short of new buses will help on some of the routes mentioned...
Looking at the routes mentioned:
50/50a: interesting to see no mention of 52 which interworks with 50a, based on the buses on the route last week needs: New Seats, New flooring, New interior and exterior panels, new engines, working stop signs, windows that will stay open/closed as wanted by passengers, drivers with at least some customer service skills, some timetable improvements around the end of both morning and evening peaks (08:00-09:00 from Narborough is a particularly unreliable time)
84/85: New seats, interior and exterior panels, and engines, some timetable adjustments for punctuality
126:The buses that were refurbished for it in the last few months actually being allocated to it rather than the 51/153
14: Would be better left to First
49's: Most journeys are relatively short on these routes, and buses seem to get relatively long lay overs, so better maintenance (stop signs, graffiti, windows etc) and more capacity around school opening and closing should suffice
Also helpful would be a spare bus or 2 in the city centre so that controllers aren't taking buses of routes they don't like to put on other routes

 

[Alistair G.]

I thought I read about a project recently were the government were going to be giving cash incentives to the top 10 poor performing city centres and their buses measured on pollution. I believe Leicester came somewhere in this top 10 so I wonder if this upgrade is part funded?.

I'm sure I read this in my local Leicester Mercury but cannot find the article myself. Sorry


(Or maybe it was all just a dream?!?)

 

[Mvann]

Ah, understood. Even if United Counties and Fox County no longer exist !

At least you can now have a different route through Kibworth on Arriva's diverted X3.

Mum said that it's going to be retouted again as there were problems getting buses up and down fleckney road. Nice to see the X49 route reinstated. Used to use this service regularly when I worked in Leicester, mainly because I liked the drivers on the route.

 

[MedwayValiant]

84/85: New seats, interior and exterior panels, and engines, some timetable adjustments for punctuality.

If you asked the good people of Lutterworth, I imagine they'd ask for a half hourly headway rather than the 20 and 40 minute intervals they have now. They'd also ask for a more direct service to Leicester, since a 72 minute journey time for a trip which can be done in 20 mins down the M1 by car is not attractive.

Is Lutterworth one of those towns which is in the "wrong" county, and has the wrong bus services as a result? The nearest larger town is Rugby rather than Leicester, and if Lutterworth had always been in Warwickshire I suspect it would have a rather better service to Rugby than it does.

 

[Alistair G.]

If you asked the good people of Lutterworth, I imagine they'd ask for a half hourly headway rather than the 20 and 40 minute intervals they have now. They'd also ask for a more direct service to Leicester, since a 72 minute journey time for a trip which can be done in 20 mins down the M1 by car is not attractive.

Is Lutterworth one of those towns which is in the "wrong" county, and has the wrong bus services as a result? The nearest larger town is Rugby rather than Leicester, and if Lutterworth had always been in Warwickshire I suspect it would have a rather better service to Rugby than it does.

Wow, never thought my town would get a mention on this forum !!. Im a Lutterworth lad and I do agree about needing a more direct service.

Sadly it has to serve so many other towns/villages on its way in that a journey that should take 30mins (Give or take a little) takes over twice as long!.

Having said that, I still prefer Lutterworth to be Leicestershire and as for the Rugby/Leicester debate, Rugby is a small town, and with Lutterworth on the grow and more big chains starting to appear I don't believe having a better service to rugby would benefit Lutterworth. (other than for those who wish to commute via the WCML) Leicester being a big city can still be an advantage to us though and I do think a better service will appear as Lutterworth as a town continues to grow.

 

[Qwerty133]

If you asked the good people of Lutterworth, I imagine they'd ask for a half hourly headway rather than the 20 and 40 minute intervals they have now. They'd also ask for a more direct service to Leicester, since a 72 minute journey time for a trip which can be done in 20 mins down the M1 by car is not attractive.

Is Lutterworth one of those towns which is in the "wrong" county, and has the wrong bus services as a result? The nearest larger town is Rugby rather than Leicester, and if Lutterworth had always been in Warwickshire I suspect it would have a rather better service to Rugby than it does.

The problem with the service to Lutterworth is that there is also a departure to (IIRC) Cosby on the 3rd 20 minute interval, meaning that for the larger flows (Blaby, Whetstone, Aylestone Road) the current situation provides for a bus every 20 minutes, and if Lutterworth got a bus every 30 these would either have to have a reduced service or a 10 minute gap followed by a 30 minute gap, so in Arriva's eyes I'd imagine that its the best of a bad situation .
The X44 at least gives Lutterworth direct access to Fosse Park in just over 40 minutes, and journeys to Leicester in under an hour (outside of peak), and tickets are completely interchangeable between the 2 routes, so the situation isn't quite as bad as you are making out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mum said that it's going to be retouted again as there were problems getting buses up and down fleckney road. Nice to see the X49 route reinstated. Used to use this service regularly when I worked in Leicester, mainly because I liked the drivers on the route.

I believe the revision for the X3 is for half the buses to use the current route and half the previous route, at least during the daytime.
From what I've heard though the previous revision was rather reckless and failed to take into account the needs of many users of the route...

 

[Robertj21a]

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I believe the revision for the X3 is for half the buses to use the current route and half the previous route, at least during the daytime.
From what I've heard though the previous revision was rather reckless and failed to take into account the needs of many users of the route...

Not quite sure how the revision can have '.........failed to take into account the needs of many users of the route........' when it only misses out about 300m of the most congested part of the A6 - but now serves the whole length of Kibworth shops and the new housing developments.

 

[Qwerty133]

Not quite sure how the revision can have '.........failed to take into account the needs of many users of the route........' when it only misses out about 300m of the most congested part of the A6 - but now serves the whole length of Kibworth shops and the new housing developments.

Timetabling, failed to realise that making arrivals into Leicester 10 minute later means considerable numbers of passengers have to catch the service previous to the one they used to. If times were adjusted at the Harborough end the impact would have been much less.

 

[MedwayValiant]

The problem with the service to Lutterworth is that there is also a departure to (IIRC) Cosby on the 3rd 20 minute interval, meaning that for the larger flows (Blaby, Whetstone, Aylestone Road) the current situation provides for a bus every 20 minutes, and if Lutterworth got a bus every 30 these would either have to have a reduced service or a 10 minute gap followed by a 30 minute gap, so in Arriva's eyes I'd imagine that its the best of a bad situation

That's true enough, and one bus per hour is probably the right frequency for Cosby. I can see two ways around it though.

Do the 84 and 85 share the same routing to provide a 10 minute interval between Leicester and Blaby? If so, then we could run four of them as 84s - two to Lutterworth, one to Cosby, and one short to Blaby - and two of them as 85s to South Wigston.

That would mean Blaby - Countesthorpe - South Wigston losing one bus per hour. But it's not the main route from Leicester to South Wigston - that's the 47/48 - and does the Blaby - South Wigston section really need 3 bph?

Alternatively, if Arriva does actually want to actually acknowledge Hinckley Bus as being the same company then it could tinker with the X44 to provide Lutterworth with a 20 minute interval. At the moment, the three buses from Lutterworth to Leicester depart at xx14, xx39, and xx59 which isn't too bad, but they leave Leicester at xx20, xx27, and xx47.

X44 currently has a 54 minute layover at Lutterworth but only an 8 minute turnaround at Leicester. Unless it's one of those bizarre routes where the same bus is scheduled to leave before it arrives - which shouldn't be allowed if you ask me - the obvious thing would be to leave Leicester thirteen minutes earlier and turn straight round at Lutterworth. The long layover would then be at Leicester instead, which drivers would surely prefer since St Margaret's Bus Station has proper driver facilities.

 

[Qwerty133]

That's true enough, and one bus per hour is probably the right frequency for Cosby. I can see two ways around it though.

Do the 84 and 85 share the same routing to provide a 10 minute interval between Leicester and Blaby? If so, then we could run four of them as 84s - two to Lutterworth, one to Cosby, and one short to Blaby - and two of them as 85s to South Wigston.

That would mean Blaby - Countesthorpe - South Wigston losing one bus per hour. But it's not the main route from Leicester to South Wigston - that's the 47/48 - and does the Blaby - South Wigston section really need 3 bph?

Alternatively, if Arriva does actually want to actually acknowledge Hinckley Bus as being the same company then it could tinker with the X44 to provide Lutterworth with a 20 minute interval. At the moment, the three buses from Lutterworth to Leicester depart at xx14, xx39, and xx59 which isn't too bad, but they leave Leicester at xx20, xx27, and xx47.

X44 currently has a 54 minute layover at Lutterworth but only an 8 minute turnaround at Leicester. Unless it's one of those bizarre routes where the same bus is scheduled to leave before it arrives - which shouldn't be allowed if you ask me - the obvious thing would be to leave Leicester thirteen minutes earlier and turn straight round at Lutterworth. The long layover would then be at Leicester instead, which drivers would surely prefer since St Margaret's Bus Station has proper driver facilities.

The X44 interworks, I think with the 8 to Hinckley so it's nothing like 54 minutes sat idle.

 

[Robertj21a]

That's true enough, and one bus per hour is probably the right frequency for Cosby. I can see two ways around it though.

Do the 84 and 85 share the same routing to provide a 10 minute interval between Leicester and Blaby? If so, then we could run four of them as 84s - two to Lutterworth, one to Cosby, and one short to Blaby - and two of them as 85s to South Wigston.

That would mean Blaby - Countesthorpe - South Wigston losing one bus per hour. But it's not the main route from Leicester to South Wigston - that's the 47/48 - and does the Blaby - South Wigston section really need 3 bph?

Alternatively, if Arriva does actually want to actually acknowledge Hinckley Bus as being the same company then it could tinker with the X44 to provide Lutterworth with a 20 minute interval. At the moment, the three buses from Lutterworth to Leicester depart at xx14, xx39, and xx59 which isn't too bad, but they leave Leicester at xx20, xx27, and xx47.

X44 currently has a 54 minute layover at Lutterworth but only an 8 minute turnaround at Leicester. Unless it's one of those bizarre routes where the same bus is scheduled to leave before it arrives - which shouldn't be allowed if you ask me - the obvious thing would be to leave Leicester thirteen minutes earlier and turn straight round at Lutterworth. The long layover would then be at Leicester instead, which drivers would surely prefer since St Margaret's Bus Station has proper driver facilities.

The 85 remains at x20 to South Wigston as that is where the depot is. Most 85s have already worked as a 84 to Lutterworth and will need a driver change to avoid exceeding their legal hours.
The X44 Lutterworth trips interwork with the 8 to Hinckley where it can also interwork onto other routes, or go back through Lutterworth to Market Harborough as a 58.

 

[Mvann]

Not quite sure how the revision can have '.........failed to take into account the needs of many users of the route........' when it only misses out about 300m of the most congested part of the A6 - but now serves the whole length of Kibworth shops and the new housing developments.

It failed due to the fact of not taking in the needs of Kibworth Harcourt. I suspect that they lost passengers to united counties.

 

[MedwayValiant]

Thanks for the explanations of just why the 84/85 doesn't really have much option but to operate in the less than ideal way that it does. Now of course, depending on quite how major Arriva's review of Leicestershire is going to be, it might be possible to recast the timetable completely - but it doesn't sound as if that's the intention on this occasion.

Towns of 10,000 with no railway station - such as Lutterworth - would ideally be considered second when designing the bus network. (The major corridors within larger towns are always going to be first.)

Leicestershire has seven such towns: Ashby dlZ, Blaby/Whetstone, Coalville, Earl Shilton, Lutterworth, Mountsorrel, and Shepshed. If we look at the bus service between each of these towns and their nearest rail-served larger town, we see:

Ashby - four bph to Burton upon Trent, one on Sundays
Blaby - six bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Coalville - two bph to Loughborough, one bph to Leicester on Sundays
Earl Shilton - nine bph to Hinckley, two on Sundays
Lutterworth - bus every two hours to Rugby, no Sunday service to anywhere
Mountsorrel - five bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Shepshed - seven bph to Loughborough, two on Sundays

Lutterworth does seem to do rather poorly in comparison to the others. Coalville doesn't do brilliantly either, especially as it's by some way the largest of these towns, but the people of the other five towns get an adequate service every day.

It's not actually Arriva's problem - it's Leicestershire County Council's - but shouldn't Arriva want to be part of the solution?

 

[AndyW33]

Leicestershire has seven such towns: Ashby dlZ, Blaby/Whetstone, Coalville, Earl Shilton, Lutterworth, Mountsorrel, and Shepshed. If we look at the bus service between each of these towns and their nearest rail-served larger town, we see:

Ashby - four bph to Burton upon Trent, one on Sundays
Blaby - six bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Coalville - two bph to Loughborough, one bph to Leicester on Sundays
Earl Shilton - nine bph to Hinckley, two on Sundays
Lutterworth - bus every two hours to Rugby, no Sunday service to anywhere
Mountsorrel - five bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Shepshed - seven bph to Loughborough, two on Sundays

Lutterworth does seem to do rather poorly in comparison to the others. Coalville doesn't do brilliantly either, especially as it's by some way the largest of these towns, but the people of the other five towns get an adequate service every day.

It's not actually Arriva's problem - it's Leicestershire County Council's - but shouldn't Arriva want to be part of the solution?

The trouble is that there is no correlation between having a bus service (however frequent) to the nearest rail-served town and having a bus service that can be used to get to a railway station in that or any other town.
To take some of the examples you give, service 126/127 links Leicester, Mountsorrel, Loughborough, and Shepshed (and Coalville in the evening). But it goes nowhere near Loughborough or Leicester railway stations. Nor does 16 (Coalville-Shepshed-Loughborough).These services and their predecessors never have done. Shepshed did get a separate service to Loughborough Railway Station for several years but that hardly ever carried more than a handful of people on the Town Centre to Station section, and has now ceased.

 

[Robertj21a]

Thanks for the explanations of just why the 84/85 doesn't really have much option but to operate in the less than ideal way that it does. Now of course, depending on quite how major Arriva's review of Leicestershire is going to be, it might be possible to recast the timetable completely - but it doesn't sound as if that's the intention on this occasion.

Towns of 10,000 with no railway station - such as Lutterworth - would ideally be considered second when designing the bus network. (The major corridors within larger towns are always going to be first.)

Leicestershire has seven such towns: Ashby dlZ, Blaby/Whetstone, Coalville, Earl Shilton, Lutterworth, Mountsorrel, and Shepshed. If we look at the bus service between each of these towns and their nearest rail-served larger town, we see:

Ashby - four bph to Burton upon Trent, one on Sundays
Blaby - six bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Coalville - two bph to Loughborough, one bph to Leicester on Sundays
Earl Shilton - nine bph to Hinckley, two on Sundays
Lutterworth - bus every two hours to Rugby, no Sunday service to anywhere
Mountsorrel - five bph to Leicester, two on Sundays
Shepshed - seven bph to Loughborough, two on Sundays

Lutterworth does seem to do rather poorly in comparison to the others. Coalville doesn't do brilliantly either, especially as it's by some way the largest of these towns, but the people of the other five towns get an adequate service every day.

It's not actually Arriva's problem - it's Leicestershire County Council's - but shouldn't Arriva want to be part of the solution?

A good list, and interesting to see. Not nitpicking, but it may be more relevant if you amend Coalville to also show 4bph to Leicester - and Lutterworth to also show 3 bph to Leicester and 1bph to Hinckley. The Earl Shilton 9bph also go to Leicester of course.

 

[ivanhoe]

The trouble is that there is no correlation between having a bus service (however frequent) to the nearest rail-served town and having a bus service that can be used to get to a railway station in that or any other town.
To take some of the examples you give, service 126/127 links Leicester, Mountsorrel, Loughborough, and Shepshed (and Coalville in the evening). But it goes nowhere near Loughborough or Leicester railway stations. Nor does 16 (Coalville-Shepshed-Loughborough).These services and their predecessors never have done. Shepshed did get a separate service to Loughborough Railway Station for several years but that hardly ever carried more than a handful of people on the Town Centre to Station section, and has now ceased.

You are quite correct. Shame that the 99 which went Coalville to Nottingham via Loughborough Station, was axed. Just not enough passengers as was the case with Paul Winson Buses who no longer operate the Shepshed Sprinter. The only bus that operates to the station from outside of Loughborough Town centre is the University Sprint(Kinch). It is also noticeable that the Skylink which operates a fast service to Leicester is increasingly popular. Loughborough Station is just too far from where most people live and there is very little fares to be had between Loughborough Town Centre and the Station. What I noticed when I was walking to work everyday at the University, was the amount of people who drive into Loughborough every day with no passengers. It's a double edged sword because Loughborough has decent bus services but long distance routes like 126/127 are always delayed by the traffic in the peaks. We all know what the answer is, but there is no local solution in site.

 

[MedwayValiant]

A good list, and interesting to see. Not nitpicking, but it may be more relevant if you amend Coalville to also show 4bph to Leicester - and Lutterworth to also show 3 bph to Leicester and 1bph to Hinckley.

I was looking solely at the nearest larger town with a station, purely because it was easy!

Mind you, I expect that people who don't know about - and don't know how to find out about - bus services outside their own area do actually think that way. They just assume that there will be a bus from Loughborough to Coalville - which there is except on Sundays, so they do get there - and if they're not local they may not know that Loughborough station is nearly a mile from the town centre.

I doubt that very many people would choose Long Eaton as the point to change from train to bus on a trip to Coalville, but it is actually the best option if you don't want to walk far to find your bus.

The Earl Shilton 9bph also go to Leicester of course.

Five of them do, three Stagecoach 48 and two Arriva 158. All nine go to Hinckley and Nuneaton in the opposite direction. That's these five, plus two Hinckley Bus (ie Arriva) 1 and two Stagecoach 10.


We're all used to the notion that railway stations aren't always in the town centre, and there's nothing we can do about it. But is Leicester a rather rarer example of a city where the bus station is less than ideally located?

Oxford bus station isn't ideally located either, but at least it's the same side of the city centre as the railway station. I can't think of many other places where the bus station is stuck out at one end of the centre.

 

[Qwerty133]

I'm afraid all this talk is pointless while Arriva allow the management at South Wigston to get away with service levels such as today's.
Sapphire services X3 and 31 are both littered with non sapphire buses (at least 3 on the 31 alone), while the 84/5 has at least 2 sapphire buses running on it.
The other branded route the 47/8 also has at least 4 non branded buses on it, while one of the branded buses is on the 31.
But I suppose at least the passengers on them routes got a bus, unlike many on the 50 which had one diagram without a bus until at least 10:00, another diagram missing a bus at the start of service (it's not as though there's a shortage of buses in the depot for a 05:48), a 3rd diagram, immediately behind the first diagram mentioned missed out a run due to late running caused by a habitually late driver, causing 2 services in a rpw not to run and a 4th diagram had broken down before 09:30.
The route only has 5 diagrams so there was literally one diagram that had run around schedule all morning by 09:30. In all from Narborough the 05:48 didn't run, the 06:18 was late, the 08:25 and 08:45 didn't run the 09:05 was full and standing, and the 09:25 didn't run.
And that is just what I know about... As Arriva didn't bother publishing any information about the severe disruption.

 

[Robertj21a]

I was looking solely at the nearest larger town with a station, purely because it was easy!

Mind you, I expect that people who don't know about - and don't know how to find out about - bus services outside their own area do actually think that way. They just assume that there will be a bus from Loughborough to Coalville - which there is except on Sundays, so they do get there - and if they're not local they may not know that Loughborough station is nearly a mile from the town centre.

I doubt that very many people would choose Long Eaton as the point to change from train to bus on a trip to Coalville, but it is actually the best option if you don't want to walk far to find your bus.



Five of them do, three Stagecoach 48 and two Arriva 158. All nine go to Hinckley and Nuneaton in the opposite direction. That's these five, plus two Hinckley Bus (ie Arriva) 1 and two Stagecoach 10.


We're all used to the notion that railway stations aren't always in the town centre, and there's nothing we can do about it. But is Leicester a rather rarer example of a city where the bus station is less than ideally located?

Oxford bus station isn't ideally located either, but at least it's the same side of the city centre as the railway station. I can't think of many other places where the bus station is stuck out at one end of the centre.

I doubt that Coalville residents even bother with trains, it's just too much hassle (rather like Lutterworth). Those who need to catch a train will, no doubt, use a car/get a lift as the bus connection is fairly unrealistic.

Leicester has 2 major bus stations. St Margaret's is mainly for out-of-town 'interurban' and express coaches, so is not too badly placed right by the inner ring road. It is also by the new-ish Highcross Shopping Centre.
The Haymarket Bus Station, reopening next month, caters for mainly the inner-city routes and is next to/close by the city centre shops and pedestrianised clock tower area.