Northern Rail - Exchange Students?

[BestWestern]

Indeed.

TBH I would have pushed further that I had no intention of giving *my* address, even if it would have resulted in a trip to the Police station. You have not committed an offence and were not in any way required to be involved. The correct address to be collected is their Polish home address. Giving your address would be like giving the address of a hotel.

Forward the letters on and be done with it, it is not your problem.

I would agree, but... If the officer then makes reference to you 'obstructing their investigations' or whatever (rightly or wrongly), you presumably then become 'of interest' to the police and as such they can now demand your details? A blunt but effective way around an initial refusal to furnish. Also, I suppose if the students are staying at the OP's address (apologies if they weren't?!), then that is presumably deemed their immediate contact address for the time being?

As for what will happen... Northern will send correspondence to the OP's address, which will bear somebody else's name and therefore is of no interest to the OP! You *could* contact Northern, out of courtesy, giving the relevant addresses in Poland; you are not obliged to spend your money forwarding mail overseas on Northern's behalf. Anything more than an obliging reply from them should be met with a firm assurance that the matter has absolutely nothing further to do with you, and any additional correspondence will result in you contacting your solicitor. Northern will very probably close the file, if not the students will very probably ignore the matter, and nothing more is likely to happen I'd imagine!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's quite possible that Northern may not send Penalty Fakes but simply UFNs for the fare. That has happened before in cases of genuine confusion. If one of those does arrive, I'd cough up on their behalf as a favour, it's only a few quid.

Would be good if the OP could let us know on the thread what they do send.

 

[duncanp]

Penalty Fakes

Bit of a Freudian slip there!

 

[gray1404]

Rightly or wrongly, I do not think acting clever in front of the police is a good way forward. If it were simply the RPIs, it would have been a completely different case.

I do not accept that not giving your name and address to police is "acting smart". Even the police are only allowed to insist you provide your name and address if they reasonably suspect you of committing an offence. There are many time the police have asked for such details and the person concerned has refused to provide it and walked away. Many such videos on You Tube.

 

[najaB]

Even the police are only allowed to insist you provide your name and address if they reasonably suspect you of committing an offence.

Or, stretching things a bit, if they believe you are assisting someone else in committing one.

 

[gray1404]

I would agree, but... If the officer then makes reference to you 'obstructing their investigations' or whatever (rightly or wrongly), you presumably then become 'of interest' to the police and as such they can now demand your details? A blunt but effective way around an initial refusal to furnish. Also, I suppose if the students are staying at the OP's address (apologies if they weren't?!), then that is presumably deemed their immediate contact address for the time being?

Totally wrong. The OP refusing to give their address could no way be described as obstructing any investigations and therefore could not become "of interest" to the police. The fact remains that the OP was not the one without a valid ticket and the customers without valid tickets were offering their true addresses. If the OP had stood their ground and refused to give their address there would have been nothing the police could have done about it and the OP would not have done anything wrong in taking that stance.
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If unable to provide a British address, viz one where a summons can be served on you, you can be arrested for otherwise non- arrestable offences, I believe.

Oh really? Could you provide more details on that because I'd never heard that before and thats interesting.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit of a Freudian slip there!

No, quite deliberate!

 

[najaB]

Oh really? Could you provide more details on that because I'd never heard that before and thats interesting.

As I understand it the police are entitled to detain you while they ascertain your identity (presuming that they have reason to suspect you of an offence in the first place). A non-UK address would make that more difficult and could result in your being taken into custody.

 

[anme]

As I understand it the police are entitled to detain you while they ascertain your identity (presuming that they have reason to suspect you of an offence in the first place). A non-UK address would make that more difficult and could result in your being taken into custody.

But how would giving a fake address (e.g. place they once stayed in the UK) help?

Appreciate that you're not suggesting it would, just curious why TOCs or the police might insist on one.

 

[bb21]

But how would giving a fake address (e.g. place they once stayed in the UK) help?

Appreciate that you're not suggesting it would, just curious why TOCs or the police might insist on one.

I am also at a loss as to why the RPI insisted on obtaining an address that would likely serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

 

[Millisle]

Totally wrong. The OP refusing to give their address could no way be described as obstructing any investigations and therefore could not become "of interest" to the police. The fact remains that the OP was not the one without a valid ticket and the customers without valid tickets were offering their true addresses. If the OP had stood their ground and refused to give their address there would have been nothing the police could have done about it and the OP would not have done anything wrong in taking that stance.
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Oh really? Could you provide more details on that because I'd never heard that before and thats interesting.

I was fairly sure it was the case, but checked Citizens Advice first. You have to supply an address where the police can contact you. That would take time to verify for a foreign address at least.

 

[bb21]

I do not accept that not giving your name and address to police is "acting smart". Even the police are only allowed to insist you provide your name and address if they reasonably suspect you of committing an offence. There are many time the police have asked for such details and the person concerned has refused to provide it and walked away. Many such videos on You Tube.

The police are not always perfect. I have witnessed a number of occasions where people were wrongly arrested, for all sorts of reasons, some possibly as simple as a policeman misunderstanding the situation and/or his/her responsibility.

Even for argument's sake, let's say there was no valid reason to arrest the passenger and the passenger lodges a valid complaint after a trip to the local nick, is that all worth it? Boohoo, the policeman may have got himself in trouble, but the situation could have easily been prevented from escalating by providing an address. The risk of ending up in the local police station could have easily been mitigated against. So yes, anyone who insists on ignoring police requests for something incredibly simple is "acting clever" imo, or rather, not quite so clever.

 

[BestWestern]

Totally wrong. The OP refusing to give their address could no way be described as obstructing any investigations and therefore could not become "of interest" to the police. The fact remains that the OP was not the one without a valid ticket and the customers without valid tickets were offering their true addresses. If the OP had stood their ground and refused to give their address there would have been nothing the police could have done about it and the OP would not have done anything wrong in taking that stance.

From the point of view of an officer then; you are accompanying a person or persons who have committed an offence. Those persons have no UK address but they are staying at yours. They may quite legitimately not even know what your address actually is, in full, as they're foreign nationals. But, of course, you do. Does that not involve you, somehow? Harbouring them, etc?! Tenuous I know, but if you're accommodating them then surely there's a link? To take it to the extreme, assisting an offender even!? You may not wish to give *your* address, but that same address is where the 'offenders' are staying. I can't imagine there isn't something in that mix which could be used to compel you to offer the details requested?

 

[najaB]

Tenuous I know, but if you're accommodating them then surely there's a link? To take it to the extreme, assisting an offender even!?

That's what I was thinking too:

Or, stretching things a bit, if they believe you are assisting someone else in committing one.

 

[6Gman]

From the point of view of an officer then; you are accompanying a person or persons who have committed an offence. Those persons have no UK address but they are staying at yours. They may quite legitimately not even know what your address actually is, in full, as they're foreign nationals. But, of course, you do. Does that not involve you, somehow? Harbouring them, etc?! Tenuous I know, but if you're accommodating them then surely there's a link? To take it to the extreme, assisting an offender even!? You may not wish to give *your* address, but that same address is where the 'offenders' are staying. I can't imagine there isn't something in that mix which could be used to compel you to offer the details requested?

Quite. "I am looking after two exchange students" were the opening words of this thread. That seems to imply some responsibility which as been entered into willingly.

 

[sheff1]

I am also at a loss as to why the RPI insisted on obtaining an address that would likely serve no useful purpose whatsoever.

Quite. In the circumstances described, the obvious way to resolve things would have been for the RPI to escort the students to the booking office where they could then buy a ticket for the journey they had made.

 

[anme]

Quite. "I am looking after two exchange students" were the opening words of this thread. That seems to imply some responsibility which as been entered into willingly.

What do you think the legal responsibility was? Even if you marry someone, you are not responsible for their crimes.

 

[SussexMan]

If you gave your name and address to the police, how did Northern get it?

 

[najaB]

If you gave your name and address to the police, how did Northern get it?

The OP gave the RPI their name and address in the presence of the police.

 

[74A]

i would complain to Northern. As both of the people involved were over 18 they are adults and there is no need for you to give your details at all.

 

[najaB]

i would complain to Northern. As both of the people involved were over 18 they are adults and there is no need for you to give your details at all.

The RPI asked for the exchange students' UK address. There is no indication in the OP that (s)he was asked to provide their name.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How did the conversation go? Was it:

RPI to students: You need to give your address you are staying at in the UK, such as a hotel.
students to you: What is it?
you: Not saying.

<stalemate>

Anyone know the legal position? What address is legally to be given to an RPI in the event of being accused of travelling without having paid the fare?

 

[6Gman]

What do you think the legal responsibility was? Even if you marry someone, you are not responsible for their crimes.

I've no idea! I was just quoting the OP, who says he was "looking after" them, but that looking after doesn't seem to extend to being a point of contact for them. I suspect he has no legal responsibility, but as I suggested upthread if he receives any further correspondence I feel he should forward it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've no idea! I was just quoting the OP, who says he was "looking after" them, but that looking after doesn't seem to extend to being a point of contact for them. I suspect he has no legal responsibility, but as I suggested upthread if he receives any further correspondence I feel he should forward it.

I would agree, out of consideration for the students rather than out of obligation. It would not be a nice surprise to arrive in the UK and be denied entry or immediately arrested due to having run away from a court summons, for instance.