Beggars!

[jon0844]

Yes you're right my mistake.

My mistake for writing 1 when as a journalist I should know more than anyone that you spell the number!

 

[Steveman]

My mistake for writing 1 when as a journalist I should know more than anyone that you spell the number!

I'll let you off.

 

[tsr]

Yes you're right my mistake.

No worries!

My mistake for writing 1 when as a journalist I should know more than anyone that you spell the number!

I am usually fairly careful with numbers one to nine (not always, though, as I am sure many of my forum posts will show) but any number with greater than one digit seems generally less likely to be mistaken for a letter, so I tend not to spell those out!

Anyway... this is now a bit off topic! Sorry.

 

[westv]

Why don't you get any beggers being train spotters

Because beggers can't be choo choosers...


.....I'll get my coat.

 

[jon0844]

I am usually fairly careful with numbers one to nine (not always, though, as I am sure many of my forum posts will show) but any number with greater than one digit seems generally less likely to be mistaken for a letter, so I tend not to spell those out!

Anyway... this is now a bit off topic! Sorry.

One to ten, written. 11 and above, as numbers because, well, imagine if you didn't..!

If you look at my posts you'll hopefully notice that I follow this rule ninety nine point nine per cent of the time.

Sorry 99.9%.

 

[miami]

One to ten, written. 11 and above, as numbers because, well, imagine if you didn't..!

If you look at my posts you'll hopefully notice that I follow this rule ninety nine point nine per cent of the time.

Sorry 99.9%.

99.nine?

You can't be a journalist, I don't see any spelling mistakes.

 

[reb0118]

My mistake for writing 1 when as a journalist I should know more than anyone that you spell the number!

Yes, but one could easily be mistaken for the indefinite pronoun one.

 

[jon0844]

99.nine?

You can't be a journalist, I don't see any spelling mistakes.

I have autocorrect to make mistakes for me these days.

You can sometimes tell when I've posted via Tapatalk for this reason, but currently that's broken for me!

 

[Groningen]

Be warned if you go to Amsterdam (and trains in the Randstad area) that there are violent beggars all over the city. They pretend to be from Syria, but are from the Bulgaria/Romania area. They also popup in trains with a note. Also in French and maybe also English.

Dutch:

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I encountered one of these 'drop stuff on seats' beggars today. I think he might have been genuinely homeless, too. He had a huge rucksack, and tried to sell me a Big Tissue ...

I'll get me coat ...

 

[miami]

Be warned if you go to Amsterdam (and trains in the Randstad area) that there are violent beggars all over the city. They pretend to be from Syria, but are from the Bulgaria/Romania area. They also popup in trains with a note. Also in French and maybe also English.

Do you have first-hand experience in the violence?

 

[sheff1]

Strange that the Bulgarian/Romanian beggars in Amsterdam are violent. When I have encountered them in various other European cities they have shown no sign of violence.

 

[miami]

Strange that the Bulgarian/Romanian beggars in Amsterdam are violent. When I have encountered them in various other European cities they have shown no sign of violence.

Very strange indeed. Which makes you ask

1) Is there actually any violence, or is this just "I saw it on facebook"
2) Why is Amsterdam so different to the rest of the world?

 

[theageofthetra]

I have encountered Gitano (Roma) beggers using violence in the South of France. If they don't get enough for their gangmasters they can often get beaten (male or female) and get desperate. Saw an elderly woman well in her 80's have her arm broken in Arles by some on a scooter after her bag.

Reports of passengers being threatened on a train in Kent this week and incidents of violence being used late at night on drunk clubbers using the old 'hug' scam in the West End is becoming more common.

I know a bar owner in Amsterdam and he was telling me last year how violence was increasing on public transport there and he now gets cabs for his female staff when they finish late.

 

[najaB]

What "organised crime" for goodness sake?

There's a lot of money to be made by begging and other associated petty crime (e.g. pickpocketing).

 

[tsr]

I can confirm that there are now numerous station announcements being made at certain locations in South London where passengers may board trains with tissue beggars onboard.

Lots of work remains underway to extract them from trains, in particular DOO services. If they're on conductor-worked services, the idea is that they will be picked up by regular onboard staff. Though clearly in jest, it has been mooted that these so-called "beggars" should be deliberately overcarried and dumped at rural stations, but in seriousness, there's very very little sympathy for those carrying out these organised offences. Remember that the money gathered could be much more worthwhile if diverted to homelessness or poverty relief charities who genuinely help those in need.

 

[theageofthetra]

The gangs that run these are very powerful and wealthy-

Whilst travelling around Europe I have been to several Roma villages, one in Montenegro was shocking- while most lived in not much more than huts in third world type squalor including open sewers the local 'Mr Big' had a house that would rival something from Footballers Wives and had a Merc SL parked outside with UK plates and a BMW on German ones.

Ask anyone you know who comes from the former Communist Bloc countries and they will say the same situation exists all over Eastern Europe- particularly in Slovakia,Romania, Bulgaria & Hungary.

Those at the bottom of the gangs foodchain such as you see putting the tissues on seats are often doing this under the threat of violence or worse in the case of the girls. The gangs also run many rackets such as those old sideshow scams on Westminster Bridge up to far more serious criminal activity such as people trafficking (including minors) drugs and prostitution rings with the girls often forced into it.

I have known Romanians for over 20 years who warned me many years ago what would happen once they and other countries with these communities joined the EU and have sadly been proved correct.

Whilst I have sympathy for those forced to work for the gangmasters and often live in apalling conditions - be under no illusion that when facing a beating for 'not meeting target' they will get desperate and resort to stealing with violence.

Report to BTP via text to 61016 if you come across any of this activity and feel uncomfortable ringing 999. Also advise any traincrew or station staff if available.

They will often have valid Oysters and seem to target the first off peak services full of pensioners using their Freedom Passes.

I have a mate in his 70's who travels a lot off-peak up to either Lords or the Oval on the line through Hayes & Harlington or the tube via Ealing Broadway during the cricket season and comes across these beggers most days.

He has said to me that the behaviour is getting more threatening compared to when this first started a few years ago and they seem to target seniors like him. As a retired bookie who has had more than one or two sawn-offs pointed at him in his shop- he's not easily intimidated too.

 

[mark-h]

I do occasionally volunteer at a service that provides evening food for the homeless (soup, rolls and hot drinks- not much but needed by those sleeping rough in the streets or in poor quality hostels).

Despite the large number of Eastern European beggars in the street during the day there are very few coming for food at night. If they were genuinely homeless I would have thought that they would make use of the services on offer.


In Scotland street begging is not a criminal offence so there is little the police can do unless they are causing disorder. Street collecting without a licence, which would include begging, is a civil offence however it would be difficult to enforce.

The real solution would be to target the gangs behind the beggars.

 

[jon0844]

Strange that the Bulgarian/Romanian beggars in Amsterdam are violent. When I have encountered them in various other European cities they have shown no sign of violence.

While I've not seen it either, a friend in Oslo says they're starting to get more aggressive and are in larger groups, crowding around people to intimidate them into giving money.

One theory is the recent increase in migrants is affecting their income and the stakes are being raised so maybe we'll be fairly well sheltered here compared to some parts of Europe (including Norway, Sweden, Germany and Netherlands).

 

[exile]

I've seen this a few times on the SWT services between Waterloo and Reading. On those occasions they've left a small packet of pocket tissues with the note encouraging people to buy them and then coming back along the train to pick them up when nobody did. From what I recall they seemed to be of South East European/Romani origin.

This is common on the Paris Metro as well.

 

[TRAX]

The Paris metro and most railway lines around the city are full of them. You cannot spend more than 15 minutes in the Paris metro without seeing a beggar, most of them now being of Eastern European origin and often doing their stuff with babies and kids. France is one of the countries the most concerned by beggars, often with violence and gangs involved, right during the day at crowded stations.

 

[LowLevel]

I saw quite a comical episode in one of the European countries, can't remember which one but may have been Switzerland. One of these goons with notes possibly sensing a soft touch went up to a more well off looking chap of apparently the same sort of ethnic background. He was less than amused when the bloke in question, seemingly rather ashamed and embarrassed, had to be physically restrained by his girlfriend from laying him out and ran away very quickly.

Similar sort of thing to occasion experienced by a colleague when a lad with black skin tried to play the race card when challenged over his lack of ticket. The situation changed rapidly when a very large gentleman of similar ethnic background invited the much smaller guy to leave the train for a 'discussion' on 'crying wolf' over racism and the importance of paying for his train fare.

It's all very gratifying!

 

[CC 72100]

The Paris metro and most railway lines around the city are full of them. You cannot spend more than 15 minutes in the Paris metro without seeing a beggar, most of them now being of Eastern European origin and often doing their stuff with babies and kids. France is one of the countries the most concerned by beggars, often with violence and gangs involved, right during the day at crowded stations.

Yep, Paris certainly has plenty tissue-sellers an other beggars. Much more common at the weekend though - when commuting there was only semi-regular (ie. once a month) guy on the Metro line 1 who I would come across, yet on the weekend, I estimate that 1 in every 3 occasions (on a 6/9 coach train with no connection between the coaches so only changing vehicle at each stop) I would be approached... where do they all go to between 6 and 9 and 16 - 19 on a weekday?!

 

[TRAX]

In and around Paris, tissue beggars usually operate in suburban and regional trains. In the metro, it's usually Roma and genuine beggars walking through the train, often without saying anything, although genuine beggars usually start off with a small speech before walking through the train, and a lot of these guys are very polite and sometimes friendly. The other major way of begging in the Paris metro is by playing an instrument, usually the accordion for Roma, and several different instruments for genuine beggars, who often are very talented. It is worth mentioning that Paris metro operator RATP regularly runs castings aiming to select talented music-beggars and authorizing them to do their thing at selected locations, these being only in the station corridors. Any music-begging IN the trains is illegal, as is music-begging in unauthorized corridor locations. Several metro music beggars are now well known artists who are now signed to big record labels.

Also, you will also come across Roma beggars not even hiding while using their mobile phone. I wonder how they get to pay their subscription...

 

[jon0844]

In and around Paris, tissue beggars usually operate in suburban and regional trains. In the metro, it's usually Roma and genuine beggars walking through the train, often without saying anything, although genuine beggars usually start off with a small speech before walking through the train, and a lot of these guys are very polite and sometimes friendly. The other major way of begging in the Paris metro is by playing an instrument, usually the accordion for Roma, and several different instruments for genuine beggars, who often are very talented. It is worth mentioning that Paris metro operator RATP regularly runs castings aiming to select talented music-beggars and authorizing them to do their thing at selected locations, these being only in the station corridors. Any music-begging IN the trains is illegal, as is music-begging in unauthorized corridor locations. Several metro music beggars are now well known artists who are now signed to big record labels.

Also, you will also come across Roma beggars not even hiding while using their mobile phone. I wonder how they get to pay their subscription...

We had a beggar on our train yesterday going onto Stockholm, but he was on his own and just placed cards on the seat (no tissues) with a message in Swedish and English. I've seen some in English only.

One person gave money to him, and maybe more as he walked on.

 

[TRAX]

The french are so used to the Roma begging that they ignore them most of the time. The same is not true for genuine beggars, and even less for music beggars, who often catch, sometimes rightly so, some passengers' hearts.

 

[CC 72100]

In and around Paris, tissue beggars usually operate in suburban and regional trains. In the metro, it's usually Roma and genuine beggars walking through the train, often without saying anything, although genuine beggars usually start off with a small speech before walking through the train, and a lot of these guys are very polite and sometimes friendly.

That pretty much tallies with my experience, and the beggar who I encountered on metro 1 certainly was like as you described.

Tissue beggars and Roma on the suburban I found; one other quirk was they seemed to have preferred routes. I encountered plenty on the RER A (core and one of the Eastern branches), yet on the 'livelier' (more dangerous?) routes such as the RER D, RER B and Transilien J, never saw one.

I wonder if that also happens in the UK, that beggars/tissue beggars etc stick to lines and areas that are regarded as safer?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The french are so used to the Roma begging that they ignore them most of the time.

I also often have suspicions about how the tissue beggars manage to produced perfectly laminated cards that have been typed up using the subjunctive - there's got to be some resources behind it somewhere!

 

[TRAX]

The line A branch that has the most Roma beggars is the Chessy branch, this is due to the number of Roma camps in the area.

I would think that they avoid some rough parts (the northern part of line B, line D, etc.) as there would be a high chance of the Roma gangs fighting against the "usual" gangs that prefer stealing stuff from passengers, especially women, and usually employing violence and often any sort of weapon. There have been quite a few hold-ups (yes, Western-movie-style, a gang of ten to fifteen guys, usually between 15 and 20 years old and of African and North African origin, would block a train's doors and threaten the passengers on board while stealing everything they can) on the southern part of line D, so some areas are quite dangerous, especially at night, and the Roma tend to avoid these places, although they sometimes are present there.

As I am writing this on board a line L train (this line being one that serves mostly rich and posh areas of the South West of the Paris region), there are four Roma in the car I am in, including a young boy with very dirty skin (the Roma beggars actually are quite a threat to public health, partly due to the conditions they live in in their camps) and a card-on-seat beggar boarded a few stations after them. This morning I was in another L train, the other way, and I encountered another card-on-seat beggar. It's actually becoming worse and worse and it's spreading to more and more parts of the network.

 

[deltic]

The line A branch that has the most Roma beggars is the Chessy branch, this is due to the number of Roma camps in the area.

I would think that they avoid some rough parts (the northern part of line B, line D, etc.) as there would be a high chance of the Roma gangs fighting against the "usual" gangs that prefer stealing stuff from passengers, especially women, and usually employing violence and often any sort of weapon. There have been quite a few hold-ups (yes, Western-movie-style, a gang of ten to fifteen guys, usually between 15 and 20 years old and of African and North African origin, would block a train's doors and threaten the passengers on board while stealing everything they can) on the southern part of line D, so some areas are quite dangerous, especially at night, and the Roma tend to avoid these places, although they sometimes are present there.

As I am writing this on board a line L train (this line being one that serves mostly rich and posh areas of the South West of the Paris region), there are four Roma in the car I am in, including a young boy with very dirty skin (the Roma beggars actually are quite a threat to public health, partly due to the conditions they live in in their camps) and a card-on-seat beggar boarded a few stations after them. This morning I was in another L train, the other way, and I encountered another card-on-seat beggar. It's actually becoming worse and worse and it's spreading to more and more parts of the network.

Steaming attacks on trains and buses used to be an issue in London about 10 years ago but you rarely hear about it now.

There is certainly more homelessness in London than a few years and far more begging in general - not unusual to see beggers working the underground. As fewer people carry cash now a days and perhaps because more people are wary about the various cons it is becoming increasingly common for people to give beggers food and drink rather than cash - on a few occasions I have been asked for money on the way to get a lunchtime sandwich I have offered to buy them food instead which has always been well received by the asker. To be it shows them to be genuinely in need.

 

[TRAX]

Well that's it, in Paris a genuine beggar will happily accept restaurant tickets and food, but the Roma systematically refuse anything that isn't money, which shows they aren't really in need.