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Network Rail to sell major stations?

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yorksrob

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Given that "commercial estate" and "major stations" are being looked at separately, I always thought that the profitable bit of the stations is the commercial estate.

Why would organisations buy up major stations excluding their "commercial" properties. Unless they'll just be charging TOC's to use the trains, in which case it'll be just another drain on the British economy to the sovereign wealth funds.
 
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LateThanNever

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Given that "commercial estate" and "major stations" are being looked at separately, I always thought that the profitable bit of the stations is the commercial estate.

Why would organisations buy up major stations excluding their "commercial" properties. Unless they'll just be charging TOC's to use the trains, in which case it'll be just another drain on the British economy to the sovereign wealth funds.

Quite. How deeply depressing.
And KPMG to do the 'testing'. Surely not the same KPMG that signed off the banks' accounts before they went bust?
No worries there then.
 

WatcherZero

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Major stations is retail units, commercial estate is office space, land and rail arches.
 

HSTEd

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Oh great.
They are going to sell off the power system and then get blamed when the new operator runs it into the ground to extract the maximum value from it with minimum investment.
 

The Ham

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Oh great.
They are going to sell off the power system and then get blamed when the new operator runs it into the ground to extract the maximum value from it with minimum investment.

Possibly, although the other way of looking at it is along the lines of;

We have a relatively small power network (spead over a very large area) which costs us a lot to run and have trained staff sat waiting for things to go and fix.

There are several companies who run other power networks (SSE, UK Power Networks, WPD, etc.) who have trained staff also sat waiting for things to go and fix.

Therefore why not have less people sat around waiting to go and fix power networks with all the other "savings" (such as less depots, less vehicles, etc.) by selling our network to them. There could even be ways in which the rail network's power supply network could be used to reduce the costs of supplying houses and businesses.

Although I can see your concern the power supply networks who supply the lines to our houses and businesses haven't done that. For the simple reason that to do so wouldn't be profitable. Even when there are power supply problems (lines brought down, transformer issues, etc) they go and sort them out quickly.

Yes some have merged to minimise their costs, so you have WPD (historical West Country) covering Wales and The Midlands as well, but they do appear to do a good job and invest in their networks.

It could lead to an interesting senero (going towards the opposite extream) where they could decide to extended their network as it would provide a significant enough of a return to justify doing so. For instance, if by putting in an extension it allows them to make a significant saving and/or provides them with a new market.

However I can also see them looking for significant payments to making alterations to their network.
 

HowardGWR

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Therefore why not have less people sat around waiting to go and fix power networks with all the other "savings" (such as less depots, less vehicles, etc.) by selling our network to them.

One could achieve fewer people sat around, fewer depots, fewer vehicles, etc by simply contracting out maintenance to the companies you mentioned.
 
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Following a possible takeover by one of the regional power distribution companies and a rationalisation resulting in fewer people, vehicles and depots, should there be widespread damage interrupting supplies following a storm what, with their reduced resources, would take priority to fix - the public supply network or the railway supply network?,
 

HSTEd

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Considering were expecting to see a major expansion of the power network associated with the railway due to power upgrade projects and electrification this seems to be a 'problem' that will solve itself in due course.

Following a possible takeover by one of the regional power distribution companies and a rationalisation resulting in fewer people, vehicles and depots, should there be widespread damage interrupting supplies following a storm what, with their reduced resources, would take priority to fix - the public supply network or the railway supply network?,

The public supply network as they are required to fix that by law.
Network rail can lump it or get involved in a years long enormously expensive court battle that will play very badly in the press.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Although I can see your concern the power supply networks who supply the lines to our houses and businesses haven't done that. For the simple reason that to do so wouldn't be profitable. Even when there are power supply problems (lines brought down, transformer issues, etc) they go and sort them out quickly.

Yes some have merged to minimise their costs, so you have WPD (historical West Country) covering Wales and The Midlands as well, but they do appear to do a good job and invest in their networks.

That is because Ofgem stand over them and monitor every single thing they do, at significant cost to the taxpayer.
Where will this enormously expensive oversight come from in the railway case?
 

The Ham

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Who needs expensive oversight just make them liable for delays at £1,000 per minute of whatever the going rate is and it won't take many minutes if delays for them to ensure that they get things back up and running quickly from then on and that they don't let the networks go to rack and ruin.
 

Ships

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Won't ever happen, no contractor in their right mind would sign upto such a contract, a single fault can cause hundreds of thousands in schedule 4 costs. Even if they did there would probably have to be another layer of independent delay attribution.

Also you chaps make it sound like maintainence sit on their hands until a fault happens, not true at all, if anything they're fairly stretched and will only be more so with the program of electrification that will get worse.

I'm not sure why people think the private companies will do a good job, they're the ones who took a national grid in good condition that had been well invested in and then have run it into the ground!
 

TheEscapist_

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One way they could save money is to stop paying out for delay money, especially when it's weather/fatality. It disgusts me that people actually want to get refunds etc because someone has died.
 

Philip Phlopp

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One way they could save money is to stop paying out for delay money, especially when it's weather/fatality. It disgusts me that people actually want to get refunds etc because someone has died.

The abolition of the great train delay attribution money-go-round would devastate the unemployment figures and bury several Job Centres for months though. The TDA business, if it was a conventional stand alone business (which it's not, as it's interwoven through NR, TOCs, FOCs and contractors) would be a FTSE 250 company.

The compensation for weather and suicides is a drop on the ocean compared to the staggering amount of money NR pay out for things breaking or falling over.

I'd rather a taser to certain manager's balls was applied, rather than a financial penalty, the list of stupid, silly crap which has gone unchecked for decades is shocking - level crossings with lens/bulbs which didn't meet visibility requirements, signal posts not being assessed for corrosion below ballast level, and being too slow to sort those bloody headspans on the ECML which now take the best part of a week to fix following an 'at speed' dewirement.
 

carriageline

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Plus, what if we have storm damage, both domestic and rail power lines are now down, which do they respond to?
 

yorksrob

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Apologies for reprising this thread, however Rail Magazine has some interesting stats which say that NR's property empire contributes 3% of the rail industry's £13.5 billion income (with passenger receipts providing 71%).

This suggests that this is a not insignificant golden egg towards the long term sustainability of the railway system which shouldn't be disposed of.
 
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