Scotrail Turbostars moving to Southern

[D365]

Shame they didn't get 6 from Scotrail then.

There's five more 170s to come I believe? Currently on sublease back to them.

 

[Minstral25]

Whats the purpose of terminating Uckfield line trains at Oxted and which one you going to terminate there? The diesels currently arrive at Oxted with standing room only and the main peak trains are 6 or 8 car. The 6.43 ex Crowborough is standing room from Eridge, the 7.17 is from Edenbridge. You really think that these people should change at Oxted? Many will also have to change at East Croydon, so you are probably adding 15 or 20 minutes to their journey times.

One of the reasons the line is so busy is the introduction of the through service, so take it away and you'll just sent the passengers back to Tunbridge Wells and Haywards Heath.

The purpose is that longer trains run from East Croydon to London Bridge in the peak hour.

#Rant

Standing room is luxury when people cannot even get on London Bridge Trains at Redhill, Mertsham and Coulsdon as most have been cut due to the improvement works (5 of 9 peak trains cut), then when they take a Victoria train to change at East Croydon, they have to wait 20 or 30 minutes to squeeze on trains from East Croydon again because they are too full.

Sending up 6 or 8 coach trains when a 12 coach one could do the same from an electrified route is really inappropriate.

It seems East Grinstead and Uckfield trains get a lot of publicity and continued improvements. Yet other routes are abandoned.

#End of Rant

 

[Southern Dvr]

The purpose is that longer trains run from East Croydon to London Bridge in the peak hour.

#Rant

Standing room is luxury when people cannot even get on London Bridge Trains at Redhill, Mertsham and Coulsdon as most have been cut due to the improvement works (5 of 9 peak trains cut), then when they take a Victoria train to change at East Croydon, they have to wait 20 or 30 minutes to squeeze on trains from East Croydon again because they are too full.

Sending up 6 or 8 coach trains when a 12 coach one could do the same from an electrified route is really inappropriate.

It seems East Grinstead and Uckfield trains get a lot of publicity and continued improvements. Yet other routes are abandoned.

#End of Rant

There's a lot of senior railway management & political types live on them Uckfield & East Grinstead routes!

 

[OxtedL]

Sending up 6 or 8 coach trains when a 12 coach one could do the same from an electrified route is really inappropriate.

It seems East Grinstead and Uckfield trains get a lot of publicity and continued improvements. Yet other routes are abandoned.

#End of Rant

We discussed this at length the last time you suggested it on this thread, just over a year ago.

It remains true that there is no practical way to turn long trains at Oxted, whilst shorter trains to Oxted would not provide sufficient capacity.

I appreciate the investment in lengthening on the Oxted lines seems unfair, and when the announcements came for first the East Grinstead line and then the Uckfield line, they surprised me. However, as you observe, running shorter trains rather than longer trains is an inefficient use of capacity, so lengthening is being done.

Take heart that once this investment is done, all the Oxted lines will have to look forward to for a long time to come is occasional lengthening of the most crowded shoulder peak trains - whilst the Redhill route is a strong candidate for any extra paths into London that might one day become available.

 

[sng7]

There's five more 170s to come I believe? Currently on sublease back to them.

The Edinburgh to Glasgow via Falkirk High Route electrification will be completed in December and scotrail will run some Electric trains to replace the DMUs them which may allow a few DMUs to be released but given how tight for stock they are at the moment very few if any will be released until the New Electric Class 385 Trains and the HSTs from Great western Arrive 2017/18 which will release a large amount of Scotrails DMU fleet to go elsewhere.

 

[Chrisgr31]

Sending up 6 or 8 coach trains when a 12 coach one could do the same from an electrified route is really inappropriate.

It seems East Grinstead and Uckfield trains get a lot of publicity and continued improvements. Yet other routes are abandoned.

Not forgetting that the diesel units are in fact longer than the electric ones. The intention being to introduce 10 car trains on the Uckfield line which will be almost as long as a 12 metre electric unit.

The Uckfield lone had more than its fair share of the pain back in the late 80s and 90s, with a total lack of investment resulting in the single track, the terminations at Oxted etc. The latest investment is making up for those days.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Take heart that once this investment is done, all the Oxted lines will have to look forward to for a long time to come is occasional lengthening of the most crowded shoulder peak trains - whilst the Redhill route is a strong candidate for any extra paths into London that might one day become available.

You seem to be forgetting that the Uckfield line will be benefitting from BML2 shortly!

 

[Class377/5]

You seem to be forgetting that the Uckfield line will be benefitting from BML2 shortly!

Shortly?

 

[Peter Sarf]

BML2 !. Its about time someone high up trotted out the notion of a guided bus-way .

 

[philthetube]

If BML2 happens is see it being more of a pain than a benefit for commuters travelling to north from stations on the Uckfield branch

 

[Chrisgr31]

Shortly?

Sorry was stirring the pot, hence the smileys.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry was stirring the pot, hence the smileys.

No problem

 

[Deepgreen]

I think there was a rake of at least three Scotrail units tucked away in a siding at Selhurst depot yesterday evening - at least they certainly weren't in Southern, GatEx or TL livery. I hadn't noticed them when passing on previous occasions, but that doesn't mean they haven't been there for a while.

 

[fgwrich]

Not really any update from me on these. Just a picture of the seats at Hants & Dorset Trim's Eastleigh facility undergoing recovering into the Southern standard astro turf.

https://twitter.com/HDTrim/status/652100402142412800

 

[Chrisgr31]

Thank you for that tweet, I find it interesting that the seats fold up in that fashion, never really occurred to me they could.

The other interesting thing, well for me anyway, is that one doesnt really realise the work involved in doing a full conversion from one TOC to another. I am not sure I would get on a Southern train and realise the seats were normally a different colour.

 

[WillPS]

Thank you for that tweet, I find it interesting that the seats fold up in that fashion, never really occurred to me they could.

The other interesting thing, well for me anyway, is that one doesnt really realise the work involved in doing a full conversion from one TOC to another. I am not sure I would get on a Southern train and realise the seats were normally a different colour.

I think those are the tip up seats from disabled bays?

Also - the amount of time going in to making these units ready for service with Southern is pretty extreme, even considering they're class modifications.

 

[southern442]

I think those are the tip up seats from disabled bays?

Also - the amount of time going in to making these units ready for service with Southern is pretty extreme, even considering they're class modifications.

More like the amount of time it's taking is pretty extreme, but is is Southern after all

 

[Chrisgr31]

They did say they would be coming in to service in July with the longerplatforms on the Passenger Forum today.

 

[me123]

Can I just clarify - it's been just short of eleven months since these twelve carriages were transferred to Southern. Upon leaving Scotrail, I understand that they were in perfectly serviceable condition (although would have benefitted from a refresh, and obviously needed the new couplers to be compatible with the 171 fleet). I find it shocking to believe that in all that time, any of the purple Scotrail seating still exists on these trains.

What the hell is taking so long? Aside from the people standing on 3 car Glasgow-Edinburgh services who will be rightly quite miffed at this whole situation if they had a clue what was going on, I can think of dozens of other places where the trains would have been put to good use by now.

 

[Carntyne]

Can I just clarify - it's been just short of eleven months since these twelve carriages were transferred to Southern. Upon leaving Scotrail, I understand that they were in perfectly serviceable condition (although would have benefitted from a refresh, and obviously needed the new couplers to be compatible with the 171 fleet). I find it shocking to believe that in all that time, any of the purple Scotrail seating still exists on these trains.

What the hell is taking so long? Aside from the people standing on 3 car Glasgow-Edinburgh services who will be rightly quite miffed at this whole situation if they had a clue what was going on, I can think of dozens of other places where the trains would have been put to good use by now.

It sounds like they're being rewired as well, but when the lease it up, off they go regardless of where they're needed!

 

[physics34]

Can I just clarify - it's been just short of eleven months since these twelve carriages were transferred to Southern. Upon leaving Scotrail, I understand that they were in perfectly serviceable condition (although would have benefitted from a refresh, and obviously needed the new couplers to be compatible with the 171 fleet). I find it shocking to believe that in all that time, any of the purple Scotrail seating still exists on these trains.

What the hell is taking so long? Aside from the people standing on 3 car Glasgow-Edinburgh services who will be rightly quite miffed at this whole situation if they had a clue what was going on, I can think of dozens of other places where the trains would have been put to good use by now.

Well southern thought they were in a bad state. Whose to say either way without knowledge. They have all had their interiors southernised a few months ago barring those seats.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Can I just clarify - it's been just short of eleven months since these twelve carriages were transferred to Southern. Upon leaving Scotrail, I understand that they were in perfectly serviceable condition (although would have benefitted from a refresh, and obviously needed the new couplers to be compatible with the 171 fleet). I find it shocking to believe that in all that time, any of the purple Scotrail seating still exists on these trains.

What the hell is taking so long? Aside from the people standing on 3 car Glasgow-Edinburgh services who will be rightly quite miffed at this whole situation if they had a clue what was going on, I can think of dozens of other places where the trains would have been put to good use by now.

Apparently there were some pretty big technical differences between the 170/4s and the 171s (extending well beyond the couplers), so some modifications are needed so that the units are a bit more standardised.

 

[RichJF]

One of them's been moved back to the fuel road at Selhurst Depot. Couldn't quite see inside but it's still in Scotrail colours & without Dellner coupler by the look of it from my London Bridge train!

 

[physics34]

One of them's been moved back to the fuel road at Selhurst Depot. Couldn't quite see inside but it's still in Scotrail colours & without Dellner coupler by the look of it from my London Bridge train!

its got dellners and has been southern-ised inside. 170424 i think it was

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How much work is involved for any given class of unit with replacing a BSI coupling with a Dellner?

 

[D365]

How much work is involved for any given class of unit with replacing a BSI coupling with a Dellner?

If you scroll back up through the thread, you'll see it's not just the couplers that are in need of work:

Apparently there were some pretty big technical differences between the 170/4s and the 171s (extending well beyond the couplers), so some modifications are needed so that the units are a bit more standardised.

Also bear in mind that the SWT Turbostar that went to Southern must have been simpler to convert, as it was built as an add-on to the Southern order.

 

[Townsend Hook]

Also bear in mind that the SWT Turbostar that went to Southern must have been simpler to convert, as it was built as an add-on to the Southern order.

Indeed, Bombardier went as far to outshop it in unbranded Southern livery with a 170/7 number..

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed, Bombardier went as far to outshop it in unbranded Southern livery with a 170/7 number..

Didn't it have a partial Southern interior while with SWT as well?

 

[Waldgrun]

Didn't it have a partial Southern interior while with SWT as well?

Yes it did, looked a bit odd green seat covers in the land of the red! And, if I remember correctly, one of what would have been the first class areas on SWT units was declassified!

 

[physics34]

Indeed, Bombardier went as far to outshop it in unbranded Southern livery with a 170/7 number..

wasnt it the original 170725 or something like that.......

 

[fgwrich]

Didn't it have a partial Southern interior while with SWT as well?

Yes it did, looked a bit odd green seat covers in the land of the red! And, if I remember correctly, one of what would have been the first class areas on SWT units was declassified!

170392 is what it was with SWT - Complete with Southern Green Interior (and Astroturf seats!)