Heathrow Connect suspended/332s withdrawn from service (running again)

[PHILIPE]

Unless I've missed anything, I've seen nothing of such a thing as a Press Release stating what the position actually is and when there is likely to be a resumption of normal service.

 

[SWT_USER]

Unless I've missed anything, I've seen nothing of such a thing as a Press Release stating what the position actually is and when there is likely to be a resumption of normal service.

Neither have I but the poster 3141 said it was a short term suspension - although how they know this I'm not sure.

Debating whether to write to my MP but I can't motivate myself to do it knowing how little difference it will make. He is a regular user of Hanwell station though so I'm sure is aware of the situation

 

[matt_world2004]

Neither have I but the poster 3141 said it was a short term suspension - although how they know this I'm not sure.

Debating whether to write to my MP but I can't motivate myself to do it knowing how little difference it will make. He is a regular user of Hanwell station though so I'm sure is aware of the situation

A certain left wing MP uses Hayes & Harlington Station a hell of a lot, He was on my train when at 10pm on a winters night first Great Western decided to run one of their services without a little thing called Electricity.

 

[PHILIPE]

Somebody has just asked GWR Twitter who have replied they have no idea re resumption of normal service.

 

[D365]

http://www.globalrailnews.com/2016/...-fleet-out-of-service-for-foreseeable-future/

Heathrow Express’ Class 332 fleet will remain out of service “for the foreseeable future” following the discovery of a defect on one of the trains earlier this week.

 

[class387]

I have heard from a number of people that 332s are still operating on the shuttles. Is this true?

 

[D1009]

So 800s will have it fitted and will use it until such time that ETCS is available on a larger scale on the GWML and GW-ATP is withdrawn.

See this:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2484779&postcount=2118

 

[Nippy]

Yes they are using a 332 on the shuttle

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Yes they are using a 332 on the shuttle

So, at least one is back on service

 

[3141]

Neither have I but the poster 3141 said it was a short term suspension - although how they know this I'm not sure.

I based my comment on post 69 which says "No Heathrow Connect services until end of service Wednesday 2 March (from National Rail)", but I may have over-interpreted that.

I think it remains the case that if the eventual decision for extra capacity favours a third runway at Heathrow, a suspension of Heathrow Connect would have to reach mega proportions before it pushed the conclusion in favour of Gatwick. Whereas a suspension of Heathrow Express might have slightly more impact on the matter.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

No plans to fit ATP to any of the above, it's not required for operation at or below 100mph (365s) and the XC Voyagers that operate between Reading and Didcot on the GWML are unfitted and have a derogation to run up to 125 already, same will apply to 387s and 80X

Has this changed again ?

Last bumph I've got has IEP (80x) being fitted with GW-ATP, TPWS and ETCS, the Class 365 and Class 387 fleets will initially just be TPWS fitted, followed by ETCS fitment in due course. GW-ATP being fitted to IEP is planned as a stand alone system unconnected with ETCS, so it can be removed when no longer required following ETCS roll-out, without compromising the ETCS fitment as far as is possible.

365s and 387s will, as you state, be allowed on the main lines (rather than reliefs) with suitable derogation, though service frequency is supposedly just 1 tph on the mains, everything else should be on the reliefs (which aren't fitted with GW-ATP west of Heathrow).

 

[Siemens Staines]

How long can 360/2 keep operating at 100% availability (5 units for 5 diagrams)? By that I mean how often do they have to come out of traffic for a scheduled maintenance exam that would preclude them from working for a day (as opposed to some unforeseen defect that can never be planned for). I have no idea how often this has to occur on a modern emu.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I'd like something cleared up - were they able to operate a single 332 or did they get the fleet back into limited service? I'm confused mainly by the earlier post about one seen out and about

 

[Southsider]

When was the last time an entire class/fleet was withdrawn on safety grounds?

The one that springs to mind was the 158s when they were initially introduced being subject to an emergency withdrawal - which resulted in anything that could be pressed into service being put in service. Famously resulting in an HST substituting for a sprinter on a local service out of Edinburgh.

IIRC Class 303 was withdrawn shortly after introduction following a fatality. Steam locos were brought out of retirement to provide service.

 

[PHILIPE]

They're now saying disruption until end of service Friday, two days ahead instead of one at a time as they have been doing. GWR Journey Check,

 

[Nippy]

I'd like something cleared up - were they able to operate a single 332 or did they get the fleet back into limited service? I'm confused mainly by the earlier post about one seen out and about

Why is it confusing? I've already confirmed at least one is working the shuttles at Heathrow. I don't know how many are available though. I was in work at the beginning of the week and there had been two differently numbered 332s on the shuttle service on two consecutive days. I'm in tomorrow so may find out more.

When I went passed the HEX depot at OOC today there were a lot of 332s sat around. I didn't count them though!

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Why is it confusing? I've already confirmed at least one is working the shuttles at Heathrow. I don't know how many are available though. I was in work at the beginning of the week and there had been two differently numbered 332s on the shuttle service on two consecutive days. I'm in tomorrow so may find out more.

When I went passed the HEX depot at OOC today there were a lot of 332s sat around. I didn't count them though!

I was not sure if it was just the one on a test or of the fleet had returned to duty

 

[Siemens Staines]

Isn't it the case that the one 332 in service is confined to the T1-T4 shuttle? It is not clear though whether this is because the shuttle is a speed restricted service (when compared to the GW main line) or perhaps it is one of the four car 332s so a 5 car 360/2 would have greater capacity?

I thought the 303s were taken out of traffic because of transformer fires at the 6.25KV to 25KV voltage change overs, although I guess that may also have led to a fatality.

 

[Lunipart]

Probably just coincidence but incorrect roll bar set up on their 360's was a factor in the Paddington derailment a couple of years ago. Would they have both involved the same engineering team given the different manufacturers?

Incorrect,it was due to uneven packing of the airbags.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's a bit more serious than just an anti-roll bar. The first issue was the anti-roll bar mounting brackets. The bigger problem apparently is cracks underneath on supports near the centre pins where the bogies connect on a couple of vehicles. One apparently looks like a poor job all those years ago from CAF and now it's been found out.

They have also found cracks in the bolster,the bolster stays under the carriage during overhaul.If anyone has tried welding aluminium overhead will appreciate this has become a bit of an engineering issue.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

They have also found cracks in the bolster,the bolster stays under the carriage during overhaul.If anyone has tried welding aluminium overhead will appreciate this has become a bit of an engineering issue.

Ouch... Thats bad

 

[Mikey C]

Incorrect,it was due to uneven packing of the airbags.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They have also found cracks in the bolster,the bolster stays under the carriage during overhaul.If anyone has tried welding aluminium overhead will appreciate this has become a bit of an engineering issue.

Is that a Siemens or CAF bit?

 

[gsnedders]

I thought the 303s were taken out of traffic because of transformer fires at the 6.25KV to 25KV voltage change overs, although I guess that may also have led to a fatality.

Nobody killed, just a guard and a couple of passengers had serious injuries in the first of the problems (an explosion rather than a fire!).

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdf has the full report.

 

[Strathclyder]

I thought the 303s were taken out of traffic because of transformer fires at the 6.25KV to 25KV voltage change overs, although I guess that may also have led to a fatality.

Yeah, it was to due to defects in their 6.25 kV/25 kV changeover equipment that several transformer explosions occurred after only a few weeks' service (resulting in a handful of injuries in the first incident), resulting in the entire Class 303 fleet being hastily withdrawn to rectify the faulty equipment. Steam-hauled services were reinstated in the interim.

 

[Class 170101]

Depending on how long the 332s are likely to be out of action for, if AGA could spare any of their 360s (probably no chance though), could the GW ATP be fitted to a few to enable a few of the HC services to run?

No one on the GW signs them yet. Maybe 360s from Anglia could be used for the Hayes shuttle but let's face it, they don't have enough over there really!

Class 360s on GE aren't fitted with ATP and although similar to the 360/2s I would question whether they are allowed in the Heathrow tunnels.

In any event GE can't exactly spare 360s with a service requirement of 20 from 21 on weekdays. Secondly 317s are currently running on the GE standing in for 321s, away for refurbishment, not that the 317s have been doing that consistently - regularly being replaced with Class 321s so pushing the availability there.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Class 360s on GE aren't fitted with ATP and although similar to the 360/2s I would question whether they are allowed in the Heathrow tunnels.

As has been said repeatedly, only GW-ATP fitted units can access Heathrow as it's the only safety system currently installed on the branch, pending either ETCS installation (Plan A) or TPWS (Plan B if Plan A is delayed).

To use a GE Class 360 would mean having a train with no active safety system available at all, so it wouldn't be allowed in passenger service in any case, and there's absolutely no way a derogation should be being issued for their operation.

 

[306024]

As has been said repeatedly, only GW-ATP fitted units can access Heathrow as it's the only safety system currently installed on the branch, pending either ETCS installation (Plan A) or TPWS (Plan B if Plan A is delayed).

To use a GE Class 360 would mean having a train with no active safety system available at all, so it wouldn't be allowed in passenger service in any case, and there's absolutely no way a derogation should be being issued for their operation.

Standby to repeat again when someone else comes up with another daft idea. The GE 360s are quite happy where they are thanks.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Incorrect,it was due to uneven packing of the airbags.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They have also found cracks in the bolster,the bolster stays under the carriage during overhaul.If anyone has tried welding aluminium overhead will appreciate this has become a bit of an engineering issue.

Is that possibly going to mean the entire bogies will need replacing along with the parts they mount onto on the underframe?

 

[D365]

Moving on quickly from the last 'daft idea' I don't think you quite understand how a railway bogie works. Maybe have a read through this?

 

[matchmaker]

I thought the 303s were taken out of traffic because of transformer fires at the 6.25KV to 25KV voltage change overs, although I guess that may also have led to a fatality.

Transformer explosions related to the changeover between 6.25kv and 25kv. 3 serious injuries but no fatalities. I have the MoT report, but it's just a bit too big to upload to the forum.

 

[island]

I hope heathrow airport holdings is reibursing tfl at a rate of £6.00 per passenger for ticket acceptance on the 140 and 350 otherwise they are actually profiting at the expense of others clearing up their mess.

Teehee, you made a funny.

I didnt know that the dft have made a decision not to fine gwr over this incident yet. I didnt know that the dft had even commenced an investigation into gwr yet. But I guess you are right I am sure the MP for Hayes and Harlington is ecstatic about the DFT providing subsidies to an operator whose services are not running because the rolling stock is being used for an private open access services that charge customers £2 a minute to run. With that very same open access operator charging £6 to board a taxpayer funded bus service that charges regular customers £1.50 or less

Not sure where you're getting £2 a minute from. A standard single on the HEX is £22 (currently reduced to £17 pending the return of the 332s) for a 15-minute journey, and advance fares start from £5.50.

How long can 360/2 keep operating at 100% availability (5 units for 5 diagrams)? By that I mean how often do they have to come out of traffic for a scheduled maintenance exam that would preclude them from working for a day (as opposed to some unforeseen defect that can never be planned for). I have no idea how often this has to occur on a modern emu.

HEX goes half-hourly on Saturdays due to Crossrail work which will free up one or more units.

Isn't it the case that the one 332 in service is confined to the T1-T4 shuttle? It is not clear though whether this is because the shuttle is a speed restricted service (when compared to the GW main line) or perhaps it is one of the four car 332s so a 5 car 360/2 would have greater capacity?

Yes — of course, the normal 360 that operates the T23-T4 shuttle is in HEX livery.