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DfT prepares to wage war on train drivers

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BestWestern

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What a t*sser.

I wonder whether they've earmarked his next (non-DfT) job for him yet...

Might be worth someone thinking about it :roll:
 
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Rhondda Rudie

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Wilkinson is either shockingly ill informed or misleading people on purpose.My money is on the latter.Any drivers earning £60,000 will,ironically,have done so by working rest days,Sundays and other overtime.As for the comments about the length of the working week and breaks,they are simply lies.The unions should keep up the pressure on this.His position is untenable.He's had what I believe is called in the business world "A Gerald Ratner moment".
 

notadriver

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Wilkinson is either shockingly ill informed or misleading people on purpose.My money is on the latter.Any drivers earning £60,000 will,ironically,have done so by working rest days,Sundays and other overtime.As for the comments about the length of the working week and breaks,they are simply lies.The unions should keep up the pressure on this.His position is untenable.He's had what I believe is called in the business world "A Gerald Ratner moment".

Unless they work for Eurostar ;)
 

Shaggy

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Margaret Thatcher did want to break the railways (unions). She saw the 'flexible rostering dispute' of 1982 as testing the water with an Industrial Dispute, before building up her forces and going 'all-in' for the Miners in 1984.

Hmm it's a plausible line but not in reality what happened. Thatcher was spooked by the railway, didn't understand and really had no interest in it. I remember reading that she barely ever went on a train. Also as the poster above said, she privatised everything she could. Except British Rail.

What did happen is that the finances of BR were squeezed over the course of the 1980s. An ideological move perhaps (and one we're only recovering from now), but one designed specifically to break the railway unions? I'm not so sure.
 

notadriver

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A pro thatcher coach driver friend of mine told me that he couldn't wait for the day the railways and their unions succumbed in the same way the bus and coach industries have.
 

Wolfie

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http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/...rain-drivers/story-28783309-detail/story.html



Is it professional for a senior government official to use this kind of provocative language?

I would like Mr Wilkinson to show me one train driver who works a three-day week and earns 60 grand a year.

I previously felt the guy was pretty sound and had some good points. I guess I will be disappointed again.

I wonder whether Mr Wilkinson realizes that the railway industry is supposed to be a family. :roll: Your industry? I am sure plenty of railway staff will not hesitate to tell him to "get the hell out of my industry" too. :lol:

Civil servants are supposed to be non-party political. As I seriously doubt that Labour/Jeremy Corbyn agrees with his comments Mr Wilkinson has prima facie broken the Civil Service Code. I wouild suggest that someone - Labour and/or ASLEF come to mind - make a formal complaint to the Cabinet Secretary demanding appropriate disciplinary action be taken.
 

Phil.

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Well, surely that's obvious? The T&Cs and working conditions in the Police are awful nowadays. When I was a Special in the BTP I found that many of the PCs, particularly those with 15+ years service, despised what the job had become and wanted to get out. There was a massive amount of resentment towards the Government. The job has been ruined because the Government has absolutely no respect for them and they have no way to defend their trade.

I'm not sure what point you're making though?

The point that I'm labouring to make is that no matter hard done by you think you are (getting up at 03.00, working Sundays, doing shifts et al) there's plenty of people out there far worse off than you are.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Virgin basic isn't 60k mate.

Add on the extras.
 

notadriver

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The original post I replied to said any drivers earning 60k did rest days and other overtime and Sunday's (where they are outside the working week) so I say again the basic salary of a Virgin driver is not 60k.
 

Clarence Yard

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She never forgave the railwaymen on Grantham Council for sorting out her father, Alderman Roberts. The antipathy towards the railway lingered.

Can we please stop saying BR's finances were squeezed in the 1980's for ideological reasons? It's simply not true. They weren't remotely squeezed by the mid to late 1980's - in fact the investment brakes really came off and we had money to spend like most of us who joined in the 70's had never, ever seen before. it was a bit of a culture shock.

The brakes came on again in 1990 when the economy started to slow down. We didn't get a repeat of the drastic 1980 cuts (which were also economically based) but the forward plans were progressively cut back throughout that year.

What Pete Wilkinson was thinking about when he uttered those words is beyond belief. With the Shaw review just about to tear into the DfT, now is not the time for anyone at the DfT to make an idiot of themselves.
 

Camden

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The brakes came on again in 1990 when
When the government of the day decided it wanted to privatise the industry, and thus ahead of this needed costs to be lower and fares to be higher to make the offer look as commercially attractive as possible to private enterprise.
 

HarleyDavidson

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So when can I claim my £14k pay rise and all of the back pay etc?

And if the time off is like he's said then, that means I'll only have to work another 6 weeks or so and with all of the backdated leave I can have the rest of the year off.

[Here comes the nurse with my meds now... :lol:]
 

cjmillsnun

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I see nothing here out of the ordinary.

Basically each TOC has a pool of drivers. If you have X% of drivers who won't want to deliver on new terms there is a problem.

All he needs is a certain % to play ball. In most industries you can usually get these types of people. At the moment Wilkinsons statement seems to pre-date the actual problem on the premise it definitely will be a problem.

You really seem to have it in for the railways.

I'm not in the industry but try and see it this way.

When you are employed you have a contract with terms and conditions. That is what you and the company agreed to as to your role. Now the company turns round and just changes it to your detriment and says that's what you will do now.

You would quite rightly be p'd off. It's sod all to do with x to play ball it's about fairness. Drivers rightly see themselves in a safety critical role and generally are a brotherhood (Union spirit is very strong). There won't be the x who tow the line. Looks what has been happening with the underground. Don't think it won't be any different elsewhere.
 
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northwichcat

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A response from Mr Wilkinson:

Peter Wilkinson said:
I apologise for any offence caused by my comments. I care passionately about the rail industry and I am committed to helping Government deliver a better rail service for passengers. To do this we need to work with the whole of the rail industry.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...-ups-train-drivers-comment.html#ixzz4108oGhK7

No clarification over whether what he's been reported as saying is exactly what he said.

I see the RMT haven't published it and the false claim about the next Northern franchise destaffing stations, when more stations will actually become staffed is still on their website homepage.
 
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Desiro Boy

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Regardless of his 'apology', he is absolutely wrong in everything he states. £60k for 3 days a week and no Sundays? Yes please!

Obviously he's never seen a train crew roster in his life and ignores the fact that when most people are getting up for work, I could be half way through my working day and looking at another four days of the same, but with the start and finish times being varied by up to 3 hours.

no doubt,he's a deluded idiot.
 

Rhondda Rudie

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A response from Mr Wilkinson:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa...-ups-train-drivers-comment.html#ixzz4108oGhK7

No clarification over whether what he's been reported as saying is exactly what he said.

I see the RMT haven't published it and the false claim about the next Northern franchise destaffing stations, when more stations will actually become staffed is still on their website homepage.

No denial from Wilkinson either.He's either deficient in his knowledge of the industry or an out and out liar.The stupidity of airing such nonsense in a public meeting also shows a lack of judgement given his status as a civil servant.He's supposed to be politically impartial.
 

richieb1971

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You really seem to have it in for the railways.

I'm not in the industry but try and see it this way.

When you are employed you have a contract with terms and conditions. That is what you and the company agreed to as to your role. Now the company turns round and just changes it to your detriment and says that's what you will do now.

You would quite rightly be p'd off. It's sod all to do with x to play ball it's about fairness. Drivers rightly see themselves in a safety critical role and generally are a brotherhood (Union spirit is very strong). There won't be the x who tow the line. Looks what has been happening with the underground. Don't think it won't be any different elsewhere.

I don't have anything in the for railways. Since I've worked for the company I've worked for we were forced to have Sundays off or face redundancy numbers, my shift patterns have been changed to suit workloads and my hours have been adjusted with market and economic conditions taken into consideration.

Peter Wilkinson is trying to change the railways to make them more in his model of thinking for whatever reason. If the drivers have their way then the railway will always be the way it is today because a contract will force the old adage "We do it this way because thats the way we always done it".

I noticed Wilkinsons resume covers quite a bit of the globe. So perhaps this is cultural. Perhaps British workers don't budge as much as foreign overseas workers. Perhaps he's well educated on past friction between railway unions and management.

What I am trying to say is that railways are not immune to change based on contracts. Its ugly, its not welcome, but there are a lot of us outside of railways that have felt the pinch of change.

As for the OP, his demeanor leaves a bit to be desired and you shouldn't start negotiations with fighting words. As I see it, it will provoke a nasty response that won't help either party and the railway customers will no doubt suffer as consequence.
 

Gareth Marston

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Am I not alone in thinking there's not a shred of collaborative evidence to suggest he actually said those things or even apologised?

A couple of quotation marks around some print on a local rag is hardly compelling evidence? Anything else in media is repetition of what was in Zcroydon Advertiser.

Can anyone point to hard evidence?
 

TheManBehind

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Am I not alone in thinking there's not a shred of collaborative evidence to suggest he actually said those things or even apologised?

A couple of quotation marks around some print on a local rag is hardly compelling evidence? Anything else in media is repetition of what was in Zcroydon Advertiser.

Can anyone point to hard evidence?

The Croydon Advertiser, whilst not being the most understanding or knowledgable about railway issues, is generally pretty spot-on.

Also, why would he apologise if he didn't say those things? Why not just deny it?
 

jimm

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Am I not alone in thinking there's not a shred of collaborative evidence to suggest he actually said those things or even apologised?

A couple of quotation marks around some print on a local rag is hardly compelling evidence? Anything else in media is repetition of what was in Zcroydon Advertiser.

Can anyone point to hard evidence?

I presume you mean corroborative?

Why would there be?

If there was only one reporter present at the meeting taking notes of what he said, where do you expect to find any corroboration?

And the man himself told the Daily Mail in his statement: "I apologise for any offence caused by my comments"

Which rather gives the game away.
 

jimm

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Apology not accepted. Doubt it's genuine anyway.

He's probably only sorry that he failed to spot the reporter taking down his remarks in her notebook and got caught out as a result.
 
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