Could the Cross Country franchise be improved?

[Senex]

Then, curtailing the Southampton/Reading to Newcastle service at Leeds. That would mean a couple fewer Voyagers would be needed to run that, more released to double up. Depending on how well-used the Southampton to Reading part of this service is, maybe put it back to starting from Reading only?

But surely the Reading service does not go to Leeds, it's the one that runs via Dincaster and so provides the fast service between the north-east and Sheffield and Birmingham. Are you suggesting doubling the service to Leeds by depriving Sheffield of its fast York/Newcastle trains?

As there'll be a new TransPennine service between Newcastle and Edinburgh, I'd say every Cross Country service between those two should be non-stop.

Why is it so obvious that the XC trains should be the fast ones and the TPEs should have the stops?

No trains other than Cardiff to Nottingham services should serve any station between Birmingham and Derby. Except at the odd times of major demand.

I completely agree -- and I'd want to extend this principle to quite a number of other sectors as well.

 

[The Planner]

Is that because one platform at New Street is still occupied by engineering trains, or is there some other limiting factor you had in mind?

It is because even if you free up the platforms, you cannot get any trains in from the Coventry direction to fill them up again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No trains other than Cardiff to Nottingham services should serve any station between Birmingham and Derby. Except at the odd times of major demand.

Considering the growth is in the Nottingham market and the desire to speed up Birmingham to Nottingham from what it is now you will end up taking stops out of those too. You need to be able to fulfill the aspirations of having Tamworth and Burton locals from New St as extra trains, which you can't do currently as there is no capacity.

 

[sprinterguy]

Then, curtailing the Southampton/Reading to Newcastle service at Leeds. That would mean a couple fewer Voyagers would be needed to run that, more released to double up. Depending on how well-used the Southampton to Reading part of this service is, maybe put it back to starting from Reading only?

I could just about live with the fast West Midlands/South Yorkshire to Newcastle service being curtailed at York, in return for the Edinburgh TPE services, but divert it to Leeds and lose the fast journey into northbound ECML connections? No thanks.

Unless the XC services are swapped round so that the South West - Edinburgh services run via Doncaster? That wouldn't be so bad.

Birmingham to Stanstead services should really be EMT. I'd say give EMT a chunk of the Turbostars and that route, then they can play around with their routes.

As long as it also includes the Birmingham to Leicester "short" workings, as the Leicester and Stansted diagrams are interworked at New Street. Same goes for traincrew. Although unless you changed the maintenance arrangements (Presumably in this scenario the Cambridge depot would become EMT managed, but that still leaves the Leicester short workings getting nowhere near and the majority of the trains finish at the Birmingham end) you're adding additional complexity as London Midland at Tyseley would be responsible for the maintenance of three different TOCs 170 fleets: Same number of trains, but increased bureaucracy.

 

[anti-pacer]

Would it be possible to run hourly "fast" trains on XC - for example;

Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds-Sheffield-Derby-Birmingham-Bristol TM-Exeter-Plymouth

Manchester-Stoke-Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Oxford-Reading-So'ton C-Bournemouth

...in addition to more "stopping" services.

 

[johnnychips]

Would it be possible to run hourly "fast" trains on XC - for example;

Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds-Sheffield-Derby-Birmingham-Bristol TM-Exeter-Plymouth

Manchester-Stoke-Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Oxford-Reading-So'ton C-Bournemouth

...in addition to more "stopping" services.

Although if you route the first service between York and Sheffield via Leeds rather than Doncaster, you are talking about 70 rather than 50 minutes, somewhat defeating the object between certain points.

 

[Esker-pades]

Sorry, I failed in one of my suggestions.

I did mean that Reading to Newcastle services be curtailed at York, not Leeds.

 

[Whistler40145]

Does anyone know whether CrossCountry route any services via the Dearne Valley line or divert services this way and what is the approximate journey time from York to Sheffield?

 

[6Gman]

Would it be possible to run hourly "fast" trains on XC - for example;

Edinburgh-Newcastle-York-Leeds-Sheffield-Derby-Birmingham-Bristol TM-Exeter-Plymouth

Manchester-Stoke-Wolverhampton-Birmingham-Oxford-Reading-So'ton C-Bournemouth

...in addition to more "stopping" services.

No.

 

[shyanthony]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the e-voyager project?

 

[The Prisoner]

I haven't trawled through the thread, but the ex-communication of the Stafford-Motherwell section of the WCML from the XC franchise was an absolute joke.

Forcing anyone traveling to the South West/East from Crewe, Warrington, Wigan, Preston, Carlisle, etc to change at Birmingham was a huge backward step.

Take a look at the ticket prices....utterly outrageous and no semi decent advance fares available. Just selected four random weekdays at off peak time, and the cheapest fare I can find from Penrith to Plymouth is £166 for an advance (£185 for an off peak single). Yes I could split it, but will Joe Public bother to try that?

Perhaps the passenger flows dictated that that section of the "old" franchise wasn't performing, but I always found the services well patronised.

 

[Domh245]

Why hasn't anyone mentioned the e-voyager project?

Because, unfortunately, it is more or less a completely dead idea.

 

[DJD200]

Put a Deltic on the front ??????
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Put a Deltic on the front

 

[Class 170101]

Birmingham to Stanstead services should really be EMT
.

No they should stay with XC and indeed Norwich to Liverpool should join XC.

Are there any stations not currently served by CrossCountry trains which would be extremely useful?

Didcot and more services at Crewe. Need we mention stations on the WCML between Crewe and Motherwell.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I haven't trawled through the thread, but the ex-communication of the Stafford-Motherwell section of the WCML from the XC franchise was an absolute joke.

Forcing anyone traveling to the South West/East from Crewe, Warrington, Wigan, Preston, Carlisle, etc to change at Birmingham was a huge backward step.

Take a look at the ticket prices....utterly outrageous and no semi decent advance fares available. Just selected four random weekdays at off peak time, and the cheapest fare I can find from Penrith to Plymouth is £166 for an advance (£185 for an off peak single). Yes I could split it, but will Joe Public bother to try that?

Perhaps the passenger flows dictated that that section of the "old" franchise wasn't performing, but I always found the services well patronised.

Splitting Birmingham-Scotland away made it possible to use Pendolinos, thereby freeing up diesel trains for elsewhere. Unlike Manchester-Scotland, Birmingham-Glasgow has been electrified for a very long time, and services may as well use it. Unless CrossCountry were to deal with a micro-fleet of Pendolinos while the main operator of them runs alongside on the same tracks, there would have been a lot of under-wires running for no good reason.

CrossCountry is expensive because services aren't priced to be competitive over long distances. It's just as fast to drive from Aberdeen to Penzance as it is on the train, and anyone who actually wants to do that journey quickly would have no choice but to fly, even if that meant changing planes at Birmingham or suchlike. Since CrossCountry doesn't have to compete with air, there's no big reason why they should offer low-ish fares on long distance journeys. ICWC and ICEC have to compete with airlines so they have no choice but to have those lower fares. On top of that, they run big long trains which don't stop very often, so the way to maximise profits is to ensure every seat is full. CrossCountry run short trains often with more people on board than there are passengers, all at current ticket prices, so why would they want to reduce them further?

Until there's some proper solution to their capacity problems, their fares will have to be that high. If someone can work out how to ensure that every train through the core (Newcastle to Bristol, Manchester to Reading) is full length all day then we might see prices drop. Certainly with the way that XC train services end up being part of both the morning and evening peak they will need to be full length even when between the peaks, so that presents a reasonably good opportunity to try yield management to try to fill up all those otherwise-unused seats.

 

[The Ham]

Didcot and more services at Crewe. Need we mention stations on the WCML between Crewe and Motherwell.

All those could happen in the second franchise from the current one as Crewe gains its HS2 station and the lower WCML has more paths and East West Rail allows services to run Reading to MK and then up the WCML.

It could well be one service which covers all those points.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Further to my suggestion of EMU's to run between Manchester and Coventry I have been thinking if there was a way to provide some overlap between the two half of the split service.

The option that could work (subject to capacity, turn backs, etc) may be too run the EMU's to Rugby and the Voyagers to Birmingham International.

Of course with the wires going north from Manchester there could be scope for the services to head further north. Which could bring somewhere beginning with B on the coast onto the XC map - Blackpool!

It would also mean that the fleet of EMU's would need to be bigger so less of a micro fleet of EMU's as it require about 20 units rather than 12 (80 coaches vs 48).

 

[Whistler40145]

Where would you run to from Blackpool?

I would reinstate a service to Brighton.

During the Summer timetable, extend several services from Southampton through to Weymouth.

What's your view on my suggestions?

 

[Kettledrum]

It is because even if you free up the platforms, you cannot get any trains in from the Coventry direction to fill them up again.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Considering the growth is in the Nottingham market and the desire to speed up Birmingham to Nottingham from what it is now you will end up taking stops out of those too. You need to be able to fulfill the aspirations of having Tamworth and Burton locals from New St as extra trains, which you can't do currently as there is no capacity.

Apologies with my unfamiliarity of the track layout at New Street, but would you be able to get more trains in from the Solihull direction if the Cardiff to Nottingham trains went into Moor Street?

I know XC prefer to run via Coventry because of the passenger flows but they used to run more via Solihull.

On the idea to cut the Tamworth and Burton stops from some of the long distance XC, I totally agree with you. These passenger flows need more capacity as it is, particularly in peak times, so you'd need to magically find more stock to run more Birmingham to Nottingham trains.

 

[Whistler40145]

Currently, trains from Nottingham to Cardiff Central would have to reverse at Tyseley to gain access to the line through Birmingham Moor Street.

 

[PHILIPE]

Where would you run to from Blackpool?

I would reinstate a service to Brighton.

During the Summer timetable, extend several services from Southampton through to Weymouth.

What's your view on my suggestions?

I was wondering when we would get the suggestion of Brighton mentioned on this thread, We've already had threads one after another on Brighton and come to the consensus that it won't happen.

 

[The Planner]

Apologies with my unfamiliarity of the track layout at New Street, but would you be able to get more trains in from the Solihull direction if the Cardiff to Nottingham trains went into Moor Street?

Possibly, but you would still end up sitting behind a local like you tend to from the Cheltenham direction and the Manchester Bristols are currently a pain due to where they cross at Proof House Jn.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Currently, trains from Nottingham to Cardiff Central would have to reverse at Tyseley to gain access to the line through Birmingham Moor Street.

This is when the proposed Camp Hill chords are built.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The option that could work (subject to capacity, turn backs, etc) may be too run the EMU's to Rugby and the Voyagers to Birmingham International.

Nowhere to terminate from the north at Rugby unless you sat in 5 or 6 and ran back bi-di over the viaduct, not a massive fan of that in normal running. Terminating at International was what the old Blackpool HST did anyway.

 

[najaB]

Put a Deltic on the front ��
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Put a Deltic on the front

So is that two Deltics?

 

[Minilad]

So is that two Deltics?

Well there's one at Derby at the moment. I will try and lash it on to the front of my 170 next time I'm passing!!

 

[swt_passenger]

Where would you run to from Blackpool?

I would reinstate a service to Brighton.

During the Summer timetable, extend several services from Southampton through to Weymouth.

What's your view on my suggestions?

Why Weymouth? Even the handful of extensions during the Olympics got very little use. You already have 2 tph SWT trundling along to Weymouth, part of the route is single track, so XC wouldn't be able to run any sort of a fast service. It's a solution to a non existent problem.

As for Brighton, it gets suggested that often it ought to be a sticky. AIUI XC's preference is to extend more of the existing services to Southampton. I assume that must be where they think the demand is.

 

[Whistler40145]

It was just a thought for Weymouth, but obviously not viable.

 

[The Ham]

It was just a thought for Weymouth, but obviously not viable.

If you were going to go for Weymouth, it could be better to extend the Bristol services to there to provide a straighter route and not duplicate the SWT services.

However even then I wouldn't have thought that it was not very likely.

 

[Whistler40145]

I still think it's crazy that CrossCountry doesn't operate any services North of Manchester via the WCML to the South West.

 

[The Ham]

I still think it's crazy that CrossCountry doesn't operate any services North of Manchester via the WCML to the South West.

Lack of stock would be a big factor.

 

[PHILIPE]

I still think it's crazy that CrossCountry doesn't operate any services North of Manchester via the WCML to the South West.

They use to until DFT decided to make passengers change en route and transferred the services to TPE

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Poole would be a better place to extended all the summer time journeys to, you'd have the tourist traffic for the town and also for people getting the ferry to the Channel Islands.

Why can't a 2 or 3 off-peak XC services be extended to Poole all year round?

 

[Whistler40145]

Didn't some services extend to Poole in the past?