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Fairbourne to be abandoned to the sea?

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edwin_m

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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/residents-fight-to-save-welsh-village-from-being-141117843.html
The people of Fairbourne in Cardigan Bay, west Wales, are devastated that officials have opted to ‘decommission’ their village, eventually abandoning sea defences and allowing the 500 homes to be taken by the sea.

The council is proposing a 'managed realignment’ of Fairbourne, which will see costly sea defences being abandoned in 40 years.

As the Cambrian line is at the inland end of of Fairbourne but at the same low elevation, presumably all the council is doing is shifting the bill for building and maintaing the sea defence to Network Rail. And the Fairbourne Railway, on the seaward side of the village, would have to move lock stock and fishplates to somewhere else.
 
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aylesbury

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Typical Welsh Assembly attitude no help for the people ,go and live somewhere else ,how will they afford to.If this was in Cardiff or Swansea help would be available .The rail line will have to be protected and the assembly should pay but as was said a lot can happen in forty years.
 

Greenback

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Typical Welsh Assembly attitude no help for the people ,go and live somewhere else ,how will they afford to.If this was in Cardiff or Swansea help would be available .The rail line will have to be protected and the assembly should pay but as was said a lot can happen in forty years.

There are considerably more people in Swansea and Cardiff than there are in Fairbourne. There's bound to be a limit on what can be done. I wouldn't have thought it was practical or possible to protect every community inn every location.

However, this is a bit off topic for Infrastructure and Stations, so I'll move it to General Discussion instead.
 

GrimsbyPacer

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The metre sea level rise is nonsense. The land sinking has greater movement that any sea level rise in the UK. And it was recently discovered that the old figures made no calculations for water being absorbed by land and lakes. Don't forget all these climate scientists were saying an ice age was going to happen in the 70s before going on to global warming which then got disproved, now climate change is the term they use as they can attribute it to absolutely everything.
The Kioto Report (yes they mis-spelled it) had predictions over temperatures in regard to CO2 emmissions, all have been totally wrong. I studied Environmental Sciences and got my degree from it, and I discovered the temperatures measured each year aren't even the same list of places, and they add more every year, less likely in polar areas I might add, so the average is distorted.

The council should ignore this stuff entirely. This plan is silly. It must be cheaper to build a new taller concrete wall than rebuild 500 homes surely? And just say Fairbourne is destroyed, what will happen to the railway?
 

SS4

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Don't forget all these climate scientists were saying an ice age was going to happen in the 70s before going on to global warming which then got disproved, now climate change is the term they use as they can attribute it to absolutely everything.

Feel free to share your evidence. Whilst you're at it please look up the Scientific Method - the core of scientific work.
 

Altfish

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The metre sea level rise is nonsense. The land sinking has greater movement that any sea level rise in the UK. And it was recently discovered that the old figures made no calculations for water being absorbed by land and lakes. Don't forget all these climate scientists were saying an ice age was going to happen in the 70s before going on to global warming which then got disproved, now climate change is the term they use as they can attribute it to absolutely everything.
The Kioto Report (yes they mis-spelled it) had predictions over temperatures in regard to CO2 emmissions, all have been totally wrong. I studied Environmental Sciences and got my degree from it, and I discovered the temperatures measured each year aren't even the same list of places, and they add more every year, less likely in polar areas I might add, so the average is distorted.

The council should ignore this stuff entirely. This plan is silly. It must be cheaper to build a new taller concrete wall than rebuild 500 homes surely? And just say Fairbourne is destroyed, what will happen to the railway?

Ostrich politics:roll:
 

TheEdge

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The metre sea level rise is nonsense. The land sinking has greater movement that any sea level rise in the UK.

No, not quite. The processes of isostatic rebound (if you want to pull the science card lets use the proper terms! ;)) as it is occurring in the UK will, at least in the south and Midlands increase local sea level rises, admittedly for Scotland and the north it will have some negating effects on sea level rise. In 2013 the IPCC prediction was by 2100 of rises up to 69cm. UKCIP has predicted, including rebound of UK local rise of just over 50cm. Those are by 2100, when isostatic rates are measure in sub millimeters a year sort of rates they are not a saviour.

And it was recently discovered that the old figures made no calculations for water being absorbed by land and lakes.

Well, lets see what the USGS say.* Earth's water reservoirs, 97.4% of Earth's water is saline water, most of which (96.5%) is in the oceans. 2.5% is freshwater. 68.7% of that is within the icecaps, 30.1% is groundwater and 1.2% is other freshwater. Only within that 1.2% of other freshwater do we find rivers and lakes, which only make up 23% of that 1.2% of the freshwater which makes up only 2.5% of all of Earth's water. As a reservoir that is going to have a serious impact on the water cycle lakes and land is not. However we are approaching a situation where almost 70% of the freshwater on the planet is at risk of changing reservoir.

Don't forget all these climate scientists were saying an ice age was going to happen in the 70s before going on to global warming which then got disproved, now climate change is the term they use as they can attribute it to absolutely everything.

Are you the sort of person who points to colder and or more extreme weather being proof of not global warming? Climate change is the used term because the climate isn't and won't change uniformally. Working example, London and Moscow both sit above 50 degrees North. London however has a far warmer average temperature than Moscow, currently. As I'm sure you know London (and much of Northern Europe) receive a climate warmer that one would expect from their northerly location. This is all down to the action of the Atlantic conveyor which brings nice toasty warm water from the Caribbean to Northern Europe giving the Atlantic coast a relatively warm climate. The conveyor is nice and complex but at a basic level works on salinity and density of water, the sudden melting of the Artic and Greenland ice is likely to decrease the salinity of the Atlantic enough to stop the conveyor functioning as it does so global warming will probably bring far far colder weather to Europe.

The Kioto Report (yes they mis-spelled it) had predictions over temperatures in regard to CO2 emmissions, all have been totally wrong.

Not sure about the spelling. Kyoto seems to be how the Japanese anglicise it. Predictions are wrong, it happens. Doesn't mean everything is wrong. Though I'd like some facts and figures.

I studied Environmental Sciences and got my degree from it, and I discovered the temperatures measured each year aren't even the same list of places, and they add more every year, less likely in polar areas I might add, so the average is distorted.

Yes, well I got mine in Physical Geography. Not sure where you are going with this point. More sample sites is a good thing. If you wan't to try and find numbers that prove your point go on. But I like to look at the numbers and the facts. The extreme weather. The longer and more extreme hurricane seasons, sea ice retreat both in the Arctic and Antarctic, the vast majority of global glaciers are in retreat. The once legendary Northwest passage is now open. Permafrost is starting to melt. Ice shelfs dropping off Antarctica.
*Due to rounding percentages may not add to 100%
 

cjmillsnun

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The Kioto Report (yes they mis-spelled it) had predictions over temperatures in regard to CO2 emmissions, all have been totally wrong.

The irony of someone picking up a spelling error (especially one a Japanese person told me could be spelled either way), and then go make one themselves on a relatively simple word like emissions.

Also as a geologist (that was my degree), I can say that the geological record does indicate that climate is cyclical, but there has been nothing like the accelerated warming that we have experienced in the last 200 years. It is very hard for scientists to predict what will happen because there is no historical data to correlate with.

The fact is, the ice caps are melting, sea levels are rising, unless we as the human race do something to stem our CO2 emissions, then we are likely to destroy the fragile ecosystem that we depend on.
 

yorkie

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The metre sea level rise is nonsense. The land sinking has greater movement that any sea level rise in the UK. And it was recently discovered that the old figures made no calculations for water being absorbed by land and lakes. Don't forget all these climate scientists were saying an ice age was going to happen in the 70s before going on to global warming which then got disproved, now climate change is the term they use as they can attribute it to absolutely everything.
You are talking nonsense. Which Scientists are you talking about exactly?

'Climate change' is a far more accurate description because if things like the jet stream change, it will alter the climate in many ways, not just temperature. And some places will get colder as a result of such changes.
The Kioto Report (yes they mis-spelled it) had predictions over temperatures in regard to CO2 emmissions, all have been totally wrong. I studied Environmental Sciences and got my degree from it,
Seriously?! I am struggling to believe that.
The council should ignore this stuff entirely. This plan is silly. It must be cheaper to build a new taller concrete wall than rebuild 500 homes surely? And just say Fairbourne is destroyed, what will happen to the railway?
You think you can hold the sea back simply by building a taller concrete wall? You make it sound so easy! :lol:
 

Amberley54

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The abandonment of villages to the sea isn't anything new.

Examples in England that I'm aware of within the last century are Hallsands in Devon (1917) and Hampton-on-Sea in Kent (1921).
 

TheNewNo2

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As sea levels rise (and they are rising, regardless of what you think caused it) and time passes, decisions will have to be made. We act like the land is an unchanging thing, but we know that's not true. There used to be a land bridge between Britain and northern Europe, but anything which lived there is long since underwater. Cliffs erode and homes (and lighthouses!) have to be moved back from the edge. The land changes, but we pretend that it doesn't.

Fairbourne may indeed need to be abandoned to the sea. I don't know the details of it, but unless someone finds a way to generate unlimited manpower and money, you can't save every bit of land from encroachment by the sea. Some areas will always get priority, namely those with lots of people living there, and those which are easier to protect. This is triage - when you have limited resources, you have to make choices about what's most important. If you can save 500 homes for £1billion at Fairbourne, or save 50,000 homes in Cardiff for the same price, damn right you save Cardiff.
 
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