Network Rail's Linear Scrap Yard

[dviner]

But how would you feel if it was going to cost you £30 to collect that £20 note?

I think you missed out on a couple (or more) zeros there.

 

[richieb1971]

You guys talk like network rail are only to get off their butts if there is a profit to be made.

Some track was replaced on the Marston Vale near me a few years ago and in many sections the old track was thrown in the stinging nettles line side.

Its been 4 years or more since that happened and its still there. All you need is a truck with a hoist and mini crane and reel the lengths in one at a time under the guidance of 2 orange hi viz guys.

By throwing the track into the weeds its made it even harder to

a) find it again
b) remove it from the entanglements

There are bits right beside where a road exists. Which is just astonishing.

 

[carriageline]

But as we are trying to say Richie, it's not that simple. You can't just do it under the guidance of "2 people in orange"

Would it need a possession? Straight away more people are needed, nevermind the cost of hiring the plant and actually getting the possession. Then there's the trouble of actually getting the possesison, what other works are needed in that area that may take preference, is there even physically enough "white period" etc.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

But as we are trying to say Richie, it's not that simple. You can't just do it under the guidance of "2 people in orange"

Would it need a possession? Straight away more people are needed, nevermind the cost of hiring the plant and actually getting the possession. Then there's the trouble of actually getting the possesison, what other works are needed in that area that may take preference, is there even physically enough "white period" etc.

That's just the railway side of the fence.

When you move on to the road side, it gets equally as complicated and costly, you need to contact the authority responsible for the road, hire in traffic lights, add in a contraflow system and cones, liaised with the emergency services and our own people who might need access for plant (cranes, low loaders etc) to confirm it's actually OK to close one lane or the entire road for a recovery operation and so on.

And woe betide you if you do anything to my OLE with your crane, 25kV and a Palfinger crane do not mix. It's not for half arsed ****ing about with, we had a breakdown crane hit the OLE and weld itself to the track a few years back, and a couple of Jarvis's guys just about went to meet their maker through the fairly typical half arsed Jarvis behaviour about ten years back.

 

[Elecman]

That's just the railway side of the fence.

When you move on to the road side, it gets equally as complicated and costly, you need to contact the authority responsible for the road, hire in traffic lights, add in a contraflow system and cones, liaised with the emergency services and our own people who might need access for plant (cranes, low loaders etc) to confirm it's actually OK to close one lane or the entire road for a recovery operation and so on.

And woe betide you if you do anything to my OLE with your crane, 25kV and a Palfinger crane do not mix. It's not for half arsed ****ing about with, we had a breakdown crane hit the OLE and weld itself to the track a few years back, and a couple of Jarvis's guys just about went to meet their maker through the fairly typical half arsed Jarvis behaviour about ten years back.

There have been plenty of other half arsed incidents without naming companies,including 1 just before Xmas. Jarvis staff were no worse than any others including Network Rail staff

 

[Ploughman]

Could I also point out that in the changes of Name from BR to present day, many staff up and down the network are still the same person doing the same job no matter what the colour of the van is or the name on the back of the jacket.

In my own case it was 7 firms and the same desk.

 

[Elecman]

Could I also point out that in the changes of Name from BR to present day, many staff up and down the network are still the same person doing the same job no matter what the colour of the van is or the name on the back of the jacket.

In my own case it was 7 firms and the same desk.

Indeed and in my case it was 5 and the same desk ( including Jarvis)

 

[richieb1971]

And when you look at foreign railways you don't see any laziness, just professionalism.

The marston vale has no services on Sundays except the odd freight. How long would it take to take a train down there and clean some crap up?

 

[221129]

And when you look at foreign railways you don't see any laziness, just professionalism.

The marston vale has no services on Sundays except the odd freight. How long would it take to take a train down there and clean some crap up?

HOw much would it cost to collect compared to what it is worth?

Where are you going to get the staff to do it?

What Maintenance elsewhere are you going to cancel to provide the resources?

 

[Bald Rick]

And when you look at foreign railways you don't see any laziness, just professionalism.

Extraordinary statement!

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Extraordinary statement!

There but for the grace of God go we.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . .
We're prepared for winter weather, trees down, isolated flooding, small landslips, snow and ice but what nobody at Network Rail, or elsewhere has been truly prepared for is the depth and spread of the problems, sea walls collapsing, bridges being almost washed away, landslips and flooding up and down the country.

What we have all thought were exceptional events which stretched staff, engineering assets and supply chain to breaking point over the past five or ten years are events which have been repeated, often with increasing severity, almost every year since.

I've seen the data from the Centre for Ecology and Hydrology, in 2009, after flooding in the North West, the Honister Pass rain gauge was categorised as a 1 in 480 years event, 6 years later, that record was pretty resoundingly smashed, with an event said to be a 1 in 1300 years occurrence.

I'd guess, though ecology and hydrology is not my forte, that the models will need to be revised . . . .

. . . . but I think you will find there has been no upsurge in comparable infrastructure damage at airports, on motorways, etc - certainly not that I am aware of. In fact looking at man hours for winter maintenance on roads . . .

I can confirm that the experience of several climatic events over the last four years which had been categorised as 'once every 200 years' or similar, has increased dramatically, with some of these being experienced 4 times in one year.

No properly informed planning for the allocation of strategic maintenance resources would have made provision for these. The evidential fact that these extreme conditions continue to occur doesn't provide any quantitative data to inform future planning.
That evidence certainly cannot inform planning and budgetting for any current works, as their planning and budgetting must have been in the past.

 

[DarloRich]

And when you look at foreign railways you don't see any laziness, just professionalism.

The marston vale has no services on Sundays except the odd freight. How long would it take to take a train down there and clean some crap up?

do you listen to, acknowledge or understand any of the problems or constraints involved? It is not quite as simple as you suggest.

 

[Ploughman]

As an aside.
Currently the North Yorkshire Moors Rly is undertaking a rerail of approx 55 lengths in New Bullhead rail and relaying 3/4 of a mile in new FB113 and G44 sleepers.
Once the initial rerail had been completed the deliveries for the Relay began.
As part of the plan for this the same road transport that delivered the new rail was backloaded with the scrap bullhead rail.
This was completed with the use of a Rail crane and a rail carrying wagon BORAIL.
Nothing fancy just planned work.

 

[Marklund]

Yes, I appreciate you're showing what can be done, but Network Rail is a much, much different operating environment, so not really an equal comparison.

 

[furnessvale]

As an aside.
Currently the North Yorkshire Moors Rly is undertaking a rerail of approx 55 lengths in New Bullhead rail and relaying 3/4 of a mile in new FB113 and G44 sleepers.
Once the initial rerail had been completed the deliveries for the Relay began.
As part of the plan for this the same road transport that delivered the new rail was backloaded with the scrap bullhead rail.
This was completed with the use of a Rail crane and a rail carrying wagon BORAIL.
Nothing fancy just planned work.

This reads like all the old rail was removed BEFORE the new was delivered so the old was available for removal by the same lorries that brought the new?

If that is the case, can you just confirm the length of possession (time) that was available for the work?

 

[dviner]

Yes, I appreciate you're showing what can be done, but Network Rail is a much, much different operating environment, so not really an equal comparison.

No Schedule 4 payments...

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, I appreciate you're showing what can be done, but Network Rail is a much, much different operating environment, so not really an equal comparison.

One train - one drop

an nr rail train will make 10 drops (say) at geographically divorced locations before returning for a refill

 

[Trog]

As an aside.
Currently the North Yorkshire Moors Rly is undertaking a rerail of approx 55 lengths in New Bullhead rail and relaying 3/4 of a mile in new FB113 and G44 sleepers.

Where do they get new 113 FB from? That section has not been rolled since the late 1940's when it was replaced by 98lb and 109lb flat bottom. Which have themselves been superseded by 110A FB, 113A FB and then CEN60. The special nylons needed to fit the foot shape of such an old section in G44 sleepers must cost a bomb too, that was why you were not allowed to use 109lb and older rails in F40 sleepers as there was no equivalent of the blue nylon nylon for F40 sleepers.

 

[455driver]

This reads like all the old rail was removed BEFORE the new was delivered so the old was available for removal by the same lorries that brought the new?

If that is the case, can you just confirm the length of possession (time) that was available for the work?

No it doesn't, try again.

the first load of new rail was dropped and the lorry left empty, the first load was relayed, when the lorry delivered the second load of new rail it took away the old rail from the first relay, then the second lot of relaying took place, when the lorry dropped off the third lot of new rail it took away the rail which was replaced in the second relay.

That works where the rails are replaced sequentially which a pres line can do, something that doesn't happen on the 'big' railway very often, plus the rails need to be dropped exactly where they are needed.

 

[Ploughman]

Where do they get new 113 FB from? That section has not been rolled since the late 1940's when it was replaced by 98lb and 109lb flat bottom. Which have themselves been superseded by 110A FB, 113A FB and then CEN60. The special nylons needed to fit the foot shape of such an old section in G44 sleepers must cost a bomb too, that was why you were not allowed to use 109lb and older rails in F40 sleepers as there was no equivalent of the blue nylon nylon for F40 sleepers.

OK I forgot to put 113A.

 

[Trog]

OK I forgot to put 113A.

Hence the smiley but a good chance to expose the rest of the forum to a little bit of P-Way lore.

 

[Marklund]

One train - one drop

an nr rail train will make 10 drops (say) at geographically divorced locations before returning for a refill

Not only that, but a T3 on a preserved railway would have, oh, slightly more time for getting access to the track.
Maybe even that scarce thing called daylight to make life a lot easier too!

Do they have 03:30 ECS moves?

 

[Trog]

Do they have 03:30 ECS moves?

USA tank towards the end of March?

 

[furnessvale]

Not only that, but a T3 on a preserved railway would have, oh, slightly more time for getting access to the track.
Maybe even that scarce thing called daylight to make life a lot easier too!

Which is why, for the second time in this thread when confronted with preserved railway examples, I have asked about available possession times etc.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

USA tank towards the end of March?

I laughed. Well done that man.

 

[furnessvale]

No it doesn't, try again.

the first load of new rail was dropped and the lorry left empty, the first load was relayed, when the lorry delivered the second load of new rail it took away the old rail from the first relay, then the second lot of relaying took place, when the lorry dropped off the third lot of new rail it took away the rail which was replaced in the second relay.

That works where the rails are replaced sequentially which a pres line can do, something that doesn't happen on the 'big' railway very often, plus the rails need to be dropped exactly where they are needed.

Fair enough. The original posting did not mention empty lorry moves. I suppose given a month possession heritage railways can manage a bit of clearing up as they go.

 

[455driver]

Fair enough. The original posting did not mention empty lorry moves. I suppose given a month possession heritage railways can manage a bit of clearing up as they go.

I missed it the first time I read it, but as it didn't read right I read it again and caught it second time round.

Most of that clearing up would be classed as spares recovery, not a lot gets binned on a Pres line, anything which is worn will be either stripped for spares or reconditioned with a welder and angle grinder.

 

[richieb1971]

As I see it NR causes organized chaos and then hides behind it with excuses.

There is nothing hard about cleaning up after yourself. In fact it should be rule number 1.

Rule number 1-

CLEAN AFTER YOURSELF

 

[221129]

As I see it NR causes organized chaos and then hides behind it with excuses.

There is nothing hard about cleaning up after yourself. In fact it should be rule number 1.

Rule number 1-

CLEAN AFTER YOURSELF

You appear to be unable to grasp what is being said. This is just going around in circles!