Virgin Trains East Coast Delay Repay

[kersen24]

I have a quick question about the delay repay at VTEC. I travelled from Edinburgh to London return just before Xmas and was delayed by 3hrs getting into London on my outbound journey; then delayed again by 2hrs coming back to Edinburgh in the New Year. I am aware that East Coast had allot of problems and delays at that time.

I put in 2 delay repay claims online. One was refunded and i received 100% of the ticket cost (£211) but the 2nd claim was rejected because they said I was fully compensated on my outward journey.

However I was severely delayed on both journeys and feel that the compensation is for the time lost and inconvenience rather than simply to refund the ticket price. It is compensation for delay after all and not a refund! Plus by the time I arrived into London I had to get an uber as the tube had closed.

Have VTEC acted fairly when rejecting my 2nd claim? Or can I complain further and receive compensation for the 2nd delayed train?

Thanks

 

[185143]

Given the length of the delay, they have definately acted unfairly! Reply and state exactly that:You were delayed (hardly by a short amount of time), on both legs. The extreme lack of punctuality is their problem, not yours!

Passenger Focus if they still refuse.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There's nothing in the T&Cs that limits compensation to the cost of the ticket. And it is compensation, not a refund.

 

[35B]

The introduction to Delay Repay on the EC website is specifically written in terms of it being a refund rather than compensation - indeed, there's a clue in the name of the scheme.

Given the bad luck you've had, I would suggest writing a polite letter acknowledging that this would mean you've had more than the value of your ticket back, asking them to show where in the scheme rules it prohibits that, and asking for goodwill given the very bad luck you've endured with them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you have a return ticket, and you received 100% of the return ticket on the outward, you are NOT entitled to claim that again.

Delay Repay IS limited to the cost of the ticket.

 

[gray1404]

If you have a return ticket, and you received 100% of the return ticket on the outward, you are NOT entitled to claim that again.

Delay Repay IS limited to the cost of the ticket.

Where is this documented? If it is true though and given a delay still occured would the customer still be entitled to Compensation under the provisions of the NRCoC, yes at a lower rate then delay repay, as a matter of consciousness contractual breach.

Id complain about that again and if they still refuse, take the matter to Transport Doc s

 

[Tetchytyke]

The introduction to Delay Repay on the EC website is specifically written in terms of it being a refund rather than compensation - indeed, there's a clue in the name of the scheme

However the Passengers Charter refers to it as compensation. Nowhere within that section does it state that compensation is limited to the price of the ticket.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...ec326-passengers-charter---september-2015.pdf

 

[Haywain]

Nowhere within that section does it state that compensation is limited to the price of the ticket.

But it doesn't say that it isn't limited either, and most people would feel that specifying the amount that will be paid is setting a limit.

However, I am sure that we all have some sympathy with the OP in the circumstances, and dropping a line to VTEC Customer Relations and expressing disappointment at the delays and compensation might yield some sort of favourable result.

 

[Starmill]

If the OP includes their taxi receipt in the email and explains that they incurred this additional expense as a result of the delay this may also increase their chances of receiving a goodwill gesture.

 

[yorkie]

I have a quick question about the delay repay at VTEC. I travelled from Edinburgh to London return just before Xmas and was delayed by 3hrs getting into London on my outbound journey; then delayed again by 2hrs coming back to Edinburgh in the New Year. I am aware that East Coast had allot of problems and delays at that time.

I put in 2 delay repay claims online. One was refunded and i received 100% of the ticket cost (£211) but the 2nd claim was rejected because they said I was fully compensated on my outward journey.

However I was severely delayed on both journeys and feel that the compensation is for the time lost and inconvenience rather than simply to refund the ticket price. It is compensation for delay after all and not a refund! Plus by the time I arrived into London I had to get an uber as the tube had closed.

Have VTEC acted fairly when rejecting my 2nd claim? Or can I complain further and receive compensation for the 2nd delayed train?

Thanks

The've acted correctly, but did you mention the Uber fare?

My parents were delayed extensively, and mentioned they missed the last bus so had to get a taxi. They were not necessarily expecting anything (there is no entitlement) but they got complimentary 1st class scratchcards for a return journey from anywhere to anywhere on the VTEC network, which was better than any monetary compensation!

 

[sheff1]

The introduction to Delay Repay on the EC website is specifically written in terms of it being a refund rather than compensation - indeed, there's a clue in the name of the scheme.

Searching for Delay Repay on their site took me to this https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/customer-service/contact-us/refund/delay-repay/ which is clearly headed up "compensation".

 

[30907]

Searching for Delay Repay on their site took me to this https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/customer-service/contact-us/refund/delay-repay/ which is clearly headed up "compensation".

And continues: we offer full refunds for our cancelled services, and variable compensation for journeys that are delayed by 30 minutes or more.

It is impossible to quantify the value of time lost and inconvenience, so - in the absence of an actual loss such as a taxi or hotel - I think it is reasonable to limit compensation to the value of the ticket (though I suppose strictly it should have been the Anytime Single for the first journey and the balance for the second!).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is impossible to quantify the value of time lost and inconvenience, so - in the absence of an actual loss such as a taxi or hotel - I think it is reasonable to limit compensation to the value of the ticket (though I suppose strictly it should have been the Anytime Single for the first journey and the balance for the second!).

I agree liability should be for the ticket price at most with the exception of alternative transport/accommodation.

Compensation, however, is not based on the Anytime Single, it is based on the ticket actually held.

30 mins: 50% refund of single, 25% refund of return
60 mins: 100% refund of single, 50% refund of return
120 mins: 100% refund of single, 100% refund of return.

 

[Starmill]

And continues: we offer full refunds for our cancelled services,

Precisely, which refers to just that: a refund rather than compensation.

It is very clear from NRCoC and Passengers' Charters that a refund is not compensation and compensation is not a refund.

 

[sheff1]

I agree liability should be for the ticket price

Did you see the question in post #6 asking where such a limit is documented ?

Official documentation is always preferable to opinions.

As an aside, flight delay compensation is not limited to the ticket price.

 

[35B]

Did you see the question in post #6 asking where such a limit is documented ?

Official documentation is always preferable to opinions.

As an aside, flight delay compensation is not limited to the ticket price.

But is limited - very few businesses are willing to bear consequential loss because it can be so disproportionate to the revenue earned, and with no control available.

 

[najaB]

As an aside, flight delay compensation is not limited to the ticket price.

It is, however, limited by law.

 

[miami]

It is, however, limited by law.

It's quite clear, with compensation increasing on distance up to €600. That's for the journey, not the ticket. A 6 hour delay on my flight from Manchester to Singapore would have netted €2400 for the 4 of us. Another 6 hour delay a month later to Sydney would have got another €2400. A third delay on the return flight Sydney to mancheater would have got a final €2400. A total of €7200 on €3500 worth of tickets.

Didn't work out that way though.

Delay repay is also clear. 2 hour delay, 100% of ticket price. 6 individual 2 hour delays, 6 lots of 100% of ticket price. I haven't seen anything saying a macimum number of claims.

 

[Greenback]

This is not the place for a discussion about airlines, compensation or refunds for passengers travelling by air, or the laws governing what airline shave to do in the event of delays.

Please keep this thread focused on assisting the OP. Thank you.

 

[yorkie]

Ignoring the fact that some (not all) returns cost barely any more than singles, it's very generous (at least with Anytime Returns) to fully compensate the full cost of a return ticket, ie both portions, for a delay on only one portion.

If many people complain at the fact they can't claim beyond the cost of the ticket, is there not a risk of the rules being changed so that compensation beyond the cost of the relevant portion is no longer offered?

I don't see how there is any entitlement to compensation beyond the price paid, but a goodwill gesture could be made at the company's discretion. Without seeing a copy of the correspondence, it's difficult to comment!

 

[sheff1]

This is not the place for a discussion about airlines, compensation or refunds for passengers travelling by air, or the laws governing what airline shave to do in the event of delays.

Please keep this thread focused on assisting the OP. Thank you.

Some posters have stated bluntly that compensation cannot exceed the cost of the ticket but, when asked, have not provided any documentary evidence to support those assertions. This does not help the OP.

A mention of documented flight delay arrangements was made to prove that compensation is not necessarily automatically restricted to the ticket cost in all situations. If such a restriction does, in fact, exist for rail travel then a link to the relevant documentation would close the matter and answer the OP's question. In the absence, so far, of such official confirmation any assertions can only be treated as opinions and the OP should not be dissuaded from taking the case further as suggested by other posters.

 

[Greenback]

Some posters have stated bluntly that compensation cannot exceed the cost of the ticket but, when asked, have not provided any documentary evidence to support those assertions. This does not help the OP.

A mention of documented flight delay arrangements was made to prove that compensation is not necessarily automatically restricted to the ticket cost in all situations. If such a restriction does, in fact, exist for rail travel then a link to the relevant documentation would close the matter and answer the OP's question. In the absence, so far, of such official confirmation any assertions can only be treated as opinions and the OP should not be dissuaded from taking the case further as suggested by other posters.

Talking about whether compensation does or should exceed the cost of a ticket is fine. Bringing in discussions about compensation and refunds for other modes of travel is arguably worth mentioning, but it should not lead to a discussion about such matters. Anyone can start a new thread if they want to talk about it, but they should do so in the appropriate forum.

 

[Starmill]

I think there is a point worth investigating here and I've seen nothing conclusive on the subject.

I was recently delayed by >1 hour and >1 hour on my outward and return journey with an Off-Peak Day Return. So am I due 100% or 200%? The latter isn't something I would have considered until i thought about it in course of this thread, and it's very similar indeed to the OP's issue. I'm sure there's more evidence on this that needs to be evaluated. If I get some time I will have a proper search and read critically the conditions because I suspect there's a bit more to it than has yet been covered here (as we've become distracted).

 

[miami]

The conditions seem to vary depending on the TOC, which in the case of multi TOC journeys is rather confusing. For example say I have a Glasgow London anytime single and get delayed by 25 minutes on a virgin Glasgow to Wigan leg, but that means I miss a connection on a northern connection to Wigan and arrive 45 minutes late. . Who is responsible? What compensation do I get.

Later I use the same ticket to travel on ATW to Crewe and then XC to Birmingham. No delays there

Then I finally get a Chiltern train from Birmingham to Marylebone which is 90 minutes late.

How is delay apportioned. Who do I claim and for how much money?

The OP is a more clear cut case though. It's VTEC only, delay repay is not governed by any laws or contracts from what I can see, so what virgin say goes. Their charter is here
https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...ec326-passengers-charter---september-2015.pdf

And I can't copy and paste easily from a phone but it does say in a 2 hour delay
"Compensation of at least 100% of the cost of your single ticket or at least 100% of the cost of your return ticket (ie. both ways)."

That tells me there are cases that VTEC agree compensation of more than the ticket price is due.

 

[yorkie]

The conditions seem to vary depending on the TOC, which in the case of multi TOC journeys is rather confusing. For example say I have a Glasgow London anytime single and get delayed by 25 minutes on a virgin Glasgow to Wigan leg, but that means I miss a connection on a northern connection to Wigan and arrive 45 minutes late. . Who is responsible? What compensation do I get.

Virgin. 50% of the cost of the journey.

That's easy enough but the tricky part may be allocating a 'value' to the Glasgow to Wigan segment of your overall Glasgow to London journey.

Then I finally get a Chiltern train from Birmingham to Marylebone which is 90 minutes late.

How is delay apportioned. Who do I claim and for how much money?

As above, but Chiltern and 100% of that segment.

That tells me there are cases that VTEC agree compensation of more than the ticket price is due.

Quite...

....a goodwill gesture could be made at the company's discretion...

...and see my post #10 for an example of that.

 

[miami]

I see the following in the passenger charter

If one of our trains runs late or is cancelled and because of that you get to your destination station 30 minutes or more later than scheduled, ‘Delay Repay’ applies.
...
120 minutes delay or longer
Compensation of at least 100% of the cost of your single ticket or at least 100% of the cost of your return ticket (ie. both ways).

I don't see anything saying "100% of the ticket is fully compensating you", quite the opposite.

I fail to see anything in the charter that says a delay between origin (Edinburgh) and destination (London) station of 120 minutes or longer should not receive "at least 100% of the cost of your return ticket", and then a second delay between origin (London) and destination (Edinburgh) station of 120 miinutes or longer should not receive "at least 100% of the cost of your return ticket".

For a £220 ticket this would be
1) At least £220 for Edinburgh to London
2) At least £220 for London to Edinburgh

So why would this rely on a goodwill?