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Penalty Fare - 1st Class - Court Summons

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ref2468

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They say life is one big lesson as here I have learnt another. Had I seen this forum before I wouldn't be in the position I am now but nevertheless I would greatly appreciate any retrospective advice.

Back in November I boarded a northbound Thameslink train in London but upon doing so the isle was blocked to my right with a lady and her pushchair. The small section on my left was first class but this was only evident by the 'white headrests' - there was no partition doors and the seats/tables are identical to standard class. Initially I stood, but after a long, tiring day I (stupidly) decided to sit down as the train was so busy.

Literally (yes literally!) 15seconds later the RPI came into the carriage. I showed my ticket to which he pointed out I was seated in the first class area. I sincerely apologised, explained the situation, said I would stand for the reminder of the journey and pleaded for common sense. The inspector was having none of it and said a penalty fare was justified. I took two steps into the 'standard' isle area and he waived a pen and paper in my face demanding my name and address. His aggressive manner really annoyed me so I did and said nothing.

An off-duty police office got involved (well I think he was) and while he sympathised with my circumstances, he said it would be in my interest to cooperate. Reluctantly I did so and the officer departed. I was put under caution and my details were taken. On two separate occasions I asked the RPI what would happen next to which each time he said he would complete the paperwork and they would write to me. At no point was I given the opportunity to pay a penalty fare.

He asked me to sign the form to which I disagreed with a statement he had written (as I didn't say it) to which he snatched it off me and wrote 'refused to sign'. He also refused to return my ticket saying it was needed as evidence and gave me a piece of paper to show inspectors at my departing station.

A few weeks later I received a 'Notice of Intention to Prosecute' to which I wrote back with 'what happened from my point of view' (I can provide more details if needed).

Its been quite some time but I have just received a court summons. This is in relation to 'section 19 of the Railways Byelaws made under section 219 of the Transport Act 2000.' At the bottom of the letter it states 'If you are convicted, the Court will be asked to pay costs. If you plead guilty in writing the application will be as shown below. If you disagree with the application, you should explain why when you write to the Court. Costs in the sum of £125.00 are applied for'.

Having taken the time to read through many of the threads on here I know I have little chance of any success based on the facts. I just want advice as to the best way to proceed. Do I contact Thameslink directly to try resolve out of court (if so how?) or do I admit guilt to the court in writing?

Thanks in advance for any advice & I can provide more details if needed.
 
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reb0118

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It seems that you have already been given an opportunity to explain your actions but that Thameslink have decided to proceed to court in any case. NB this does not mean that you should not ask again if it is possible to settle. In fact it has been known for persons to be able to settle up to and including the day of the case, often by appearing in person and speaking to the prosecutor (if possible do not leave it so late however).

Thameslink will not really be interested in reading your excuses as they have heard them all before and will no doubt hold a cynical view of the same - it is much better to respond in writing by stating what you have learned from the experience. You must apologise for your actions, explain that you now realise how much money is lost through fare evasion, and ask how much will be required to compensate them for their losses and time & effort in investigating your case - IMO it is better to ask than to offer a speculative sum - in lieu of taking you to court.

If you feel you have a strong case (unlikely in the circumstances) you can always have your day in court as you are not forced to offer a settlement in lieu of further action.

A few minor general points: it seems that pushchairs are a menace these days and, unless you are American, it is a Driving Licence not Driver's License - this last point may seem like, and probably is, pedantry but I have known certain managers who have rejected written correspondence on much less.
 
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tony6499

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By sitting down in first class that was the justification the RPI needed,also the fact there may have been some attitude shown might mean that Thameslink want to prosecute.

If you're going to write and plead for an out of court settlement I would apologise if there was anything you may have done that could have been construed as an attitude problem as part of your letter.
 

Islineclear3_1

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That was so unlucky (for you) but the fact you did and said nothing meant you forfeited your "right" to a penalty fare which is why the matter has gone to court.

You may be able to apply for an out of court settlement but that will be up to the TOC and I'm sure the experts here will advise you appropriately.

What was your journey and what ticket did you have?
 

ref2468

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Thank you all for your replies so far. This is really helpful and I will now look to draft a letter as suggested. I will post on here for advice before sending.

Robert7111a - I was in possession of a standard return travelcard (costing £22.10). I've just looked further into the train details as suggested. On the RPI paperwork (& statement of facts) it says I was on the 15:44 from Three Bridges to Bedford. Having looked into this further I have found this is definitely INCORRECT. I was infact on the 15:29 from Three Bridges to Bedford as I know for sure got on at St Pancras at 16:47. I know its scraping the barrel but might this be of any assistance to my case? I cant even find a 15:44 from Three Bridges and even if there was this wouldn't match up to the times I have recorded or that are on the RPI's paperwork.

Thanks in advance.
 

cuccir

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Unless pertinent to the material facts of what you've been accused of (eg if the RPI had written that you were being accused of being drunk on a train) then errors such as that will not affect a clear case such as this.

People often have success in telephoning to secure an out of court settlement if writing hasn't helped.
 

ref2468

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Thank you both for your replies. The RPI put which train he thought it was (1544) and the time I was dealt with.

I thought this might be the case but I thought there might be a chance if this is not a 'timetabled' service? As suggested, I will try get in touch with them directly - personally I would prefer to try negotiate over the phone but are there any added risks in doing this if not successful?
 

najaB

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Unless pertinent to the material facts of what you've been accused of (eg if the RPI had written that you were being accused of being drunk on a train) then errors such as that will not affect a clear case such as this.
Agreed. Unlike <insert courtroom-based TV drama>, there wouldn't be a dramatic reveal of the contradiction with the judge then throwing the case out of court while the crowd cheers. (I think I may watch too much TV!)

All that would happen is the prosecutor would verbally correct the 'error' before you are found guilty.
 

talltim

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The time on the form is possibly the time that the RPI dealt with you not necessarily the time of the train?
If he got on the train at 16:47 it is hardly likely that the RPI could have processed his form at 15:44.
I know that incorrect form filling by rail staff will not change the case, but it does seem to occur quite frequently.
 

Islineclear3_1

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I believe before the December timetable change, there was a xx14 and xx44 past to Bedford starting at Three Bridges which may have departed St Pancras Int at xx47 past unless the train originated from Brighton

But this is hearsay now and irrelevant.

After you were dealt with on the train, where did you sit for the remainder of your journey?

Perhaps you could make an application to the court for an out of court settlement
 

najaB

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I didn't realise, has this changed then or did I use the wrong wording? Can't the OP arrange a financial settlement with the Court Prosecutor on the day to prevent the hearing going ahead?
By definition an out of court settlement can't involve the Court. It would have to be arranged between the passenger and the TOC's prosecutor.
 

455driver

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Perhaps you could make an application to the court for an out of court settlement

You are now confirming how little you know about railway procedures!

An out of court settlement is something the TOC will offer if they see fit, you can ask if they are open to offering one but it is entirely up to the TOC if they decide to offer one!
 

ref2468

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As the OP on this thread and just wanted to thank all the contributors for their advice.

As suggested, I contacted Thameslink over the phone to see if they would be willing to settle out of court. To my surprise when I gave my reference number she said "ah yes I can see its progressed to court as we have not heard from you." I explained that I had written back and had proof of signature from Royal Mail on 21st December. The adviser said she could find no reference of this letter but asked if I could send it by email. I did so (along with the electronic signature receipt).

A day later she got in touch to say they would be willing to offer me to settle for £77 (50% of the 'expected costs written in the prosecution letter) to which I agreed. While I do think its wholly disproportionate considering the circumstances,ultimately I've learnt an important lesson and can now put it all behind me...

Thanks again,
 

ref2468

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Just as a side note in relation to this prosecution by Thameslink, I thought I would add they wrote to me with the 'intention to prosecute' within 10 days of the offence. I find it rather ironic that I raised a complaint on the 27th November in relation to an 'invalid ticket' I was sold online. The automated reply stated "we aim to respond in full to your enquiry within 20 working days..."

Well I can confirm that 42 working days later I'm still yet to hear from Thameslink. Perhaps I could send an 'intention to prosecute letter' asking them to explain their side of the story before inviting them to magistrates court to recoup '£55 admin costs' ;)
 

Agent_c

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Just as a side note in relation to this prosecution by Thameslink, I thought I would add they wrote to me with the 'intention to prosecute' within 10 days of the offence. I find it rather ironic that I raised a complaint on the 27th November in relation to an 'invalid ticket' I was sold online. The automated reply stated "we aim to respond in full to your enquiry within 20 working days..."

Well I can confirm that 42 working days later I'm still yet to hear from Thameslink. Perhaps I could send an 'intention to prosecute letter' asking them to explain their side of the story before inviting them to magistrates court to recoup '£55 admin costs' ;)

If they've sold you a ticket they didn't honour, thats a matter of contract, not criminal law, so you couldn't do an intention to prosecute.

You could however issue a "Notice before action" indicating that if they don't provide you with a satisfactory resolution you'll take the case to county court under the small claims procedure.
 
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