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Broken down train affecting services in SWT mainline (29/01)

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infobleep

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Due to a broken down train the 18.40 Surbiton to Woking & beyond and 18.58 Woking to Guildford & beyond services are cancelled.

However they are extending the 18.44 Surbiton to Woking service to Guildford. It departs Woking at 19.12. Not for my benefit but those at Guildford needing to head north. I say that because the 19.14 Woking to Portsmouth service is still running and that stops at Guildford so why would they run 2 trains south so close together, even if I'd miss the 19.14 service myself. The railways aren't run solely for my benefit. If only. Lol.

Interestingly though the 18.44 was 5 minutes late into Surbiton so they decided to let the 18.48 Basingstoke stopping service go first. We are timetabled to arrive first. That train stops at precisely the same stations. That train is timetabled to arrive in Woking after the 19.14 to Portsmouth has left. We are stuck behind it yet due to depart before the 19.14 has left. Most interesting.

It does state on the National Rail Enquiries online departure board that this train will be delayed due to a broken down train. So far I think the delays are just passenger related as it's evening peak rush hour after 18.00. Perhaps they knew we would not pass the 19.14 first but couldn't amend are departure time from Woking as it's extra stops, so out that notice up in advance.

I could have boarded the 18.48 but decided not to. Possibly against my better judgement as it's a 450 and this is a 455. However they may yet put that into platform 4 and I find I don't have time to rush round to board this train due in after it. Who knows. I do find this fascinating though.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not surprisingly we kept pausing near Woking and we're not even in Woking at the time they allowed us to get to Guildford. This is what I expected to happen though once they let the Basingstoke service go first.

Had they let us go first, as does happen from time to time, the Basingstoke service would have been delayed. Not sure how it would have impacted on the Portsmouth service. I see that train departed Woking 2 minutes late. We have departed 12 minutes late as it is. Not a word from the guard on my service. Not even to say I don't know why we are delayed or even a this train is being extended to Guildford message.

UPDATE: Interestingly when I got to Guilford at 19.34, the CIS said the return working was due to leave at 19.13. That meant they had allowed 1 minute to get from Woking to Guildford and the driver change ends!
 
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HarleyDavidson

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Don't get staff going about WICC! I don't think you'll find that there'll be anything complimentary said.

And if the staff did get going about them the moderators would have a nervous breakdown, 455 driver will probably be able to attest to what I've said, but all I will say is that some of the decisions they make are to say the least crass & bizarre! :roll:
 

GodAtum

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I was extremely late today from Guildford to Clapham. And they refused to stop the fast services to waterloo at Clapham. I dont understand why, if they are no trains behind, how can stopping block them?

I got to Guildford at 1730 and left at 2002.

1734 - cancelled
1747 - not stopping
1800 - cancelled
1817 - cancelled
1834 - cancelled
1853 - not stopping
1856 - not stopping
1934 - not stopping
1947 - not stopping
2002 - OK
 

TEW

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Why did you not catch a stopping service via Cobham? It's only around 20 minutes longer, and they all departed on time whilst you were there. I strongly suspect the advice was to catch those services. At the very least catch a service to Woking and change.
 

HarleyDavidson

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Why did you not catch a stopping service via Cobham? It's only around 20 minutes longer, and they all departed on time whilst you were there. I strongly suspect the advice was to catch those services. At the very least catch a service to Woking and change.

Exactly. The 2002 (2P68) would more than likely be on time, because it starts from Haslemere off of 2P91 (1818 ex WAT).
 

theironroad

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I was extremely late today from Guildford to Clapham. And they refused to stop the fast services to waterloo at Clapham. I dont understand why, if they are no trains behind, how can stopping block them?

I got to Guildford at 1730 and left at 2002.

1734 - cancelled
1747 - not stopping
1800 - cancelled
1817 - cancelled
1834 - cancelled
1853 - not stopping
1856 - not stopping
1934 - not stopping
1947 - not stopping
2002 - OK

Why on earth did you not get on the next fast ( 1747 in your list) and go to Waterloo and use pretty much any train leaving platforms 1-5 or 14-19 to get back to clapham?
 

HarleyDavidson

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Why on earth did you not get on the next fast ( 1747 in your list) and go to Waterloo and use pretty much any train leaving platforms 1-5 or 14-19 to get back to clapham?

That's called being sensible and during times of disruption, most revenue staff use discretion.
 

GodAtum

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Why on earth did you not get on the next fast ( 1747 in your list) and go to Waterloo and use pretty much any train leaving platforms 1-5 or 14-19 to get back to clapham?

i did ask but the staff said they could not advise doing that as it had not been officially announced.
 

theironroad

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i did ask but the staff said they could not advise doing that as it had not been officially announced.

The 1747 arrived into Waterloo platform 15, 13l at 1840, so youd been at clapham before 7 at latest. I can't really comment on what the station staff advised you to do :D
 

infobleep

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I was extremely late today from Guildford to Clapham. And they refused to stop the fast services to waterloo at Clapham. I dont understand why, if they are no trains behind, how can stopping block them?

I got to Guildford at 1730 and left at 2002.

1734 - cancelled
1747 - not stopping
1800 - cancelled
1817 - cancelled
1834 - cancelled
1853 - not stopping
1856 - not stopping
1934 - not stopping
1947 - not stopping
2002 - OK
There are trains behind. Just from the line via Basingstoke.

Anyway the reason they didn't stop the trains was probably because today you needed to be delayed so other trains were not.

Now that has happened to you today, I expect Clapham Junction to be stopped at during the next disruption. After all South West Trains claim they vary which services miss out stations, get cancelled etc, each time so that the same people don't get delayed each time. That was on a South West Trains Web chat session last year.

Not sure how easy that is to implement but implement it they say they do.

I'm sceptical that this does happen at Clapham Junction but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
 

TEW

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Taking the delayed 1747 Guildford-London Waterloo as far as Woking, and changing there for the delayed 1817 Woking-London Waterloo would have got you to Clapham Junction at 1842. Or the 1807 direct would have got you in at 1857. What did the staff advise you to do? I really can't imagine it was wait at Guildford until 2002.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There are trains behind. Just from the line via Basingstoke.

Anyway the reason they didn't stop the trains was probably because today you needed to be delayed so other trains were not.

Now that has happened to you today, I expect Clapham Junction to be stopped at during the next disruption. After all South West Trains claim they vary which services miss out stations, get cancelled etc, each time so that the same people don't get delayed each time. That was on a South West Trains Web chat session last year.

Not sure how easy that is to implement but implement it they say they do.

I'm sceptical that this does happen at Clapham Junction but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

In a rather unexpected move last Thursday when the Reading line was disrupted due to overrunning engineering works, and passengers from Wokingham had been sent via Guildford, an additional call was agreed on the 0734 fast service from Guildford-London Waterloo at Clapham Junction to cater for the large number of people coming from Wokingham requiring Clapham.
 

infobleep

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Taking the delayed 1747 Guildford-London Waterloo as far as Woking, and changing there for the delayed 1817 Woking-London Waterloo would have got you to Clapham Junction at 1842. Or the 1807 direct would have got you in at 1857. What did the staff advise you to do? I really can't imagine it was wait at Guildford until 2002.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In a rather unexpected move last Thursday when the Reading line was disrupted due to overrunning engineering works, and passengers from Wokingham had been sent via Guildford, an additional call was agreed on the 0734 fast service from Guildford-London Waterloo at Clapham Junction to cater for the large number of people coming from Wokingham requiring Clapham.
That's extremely unexpected.

Not the first time I've seen an unexpected mive involving Clapham Junction but they are more unusual.

My experience tends to be that ifva Cobham line train is late they cancel all stops between Surbiton and Waterloo. Although the other day they only cancelled all the stops between Surbiton and Clapham Junction. That was a 7.36 service from Guildford running 7 minutes late by the time it reached Surbiton.
 
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hassaanhc

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Why did you not catch a stopping service via Cobham? It's only around 20 minutes longer, and they all departed on time whilst you were there. I strongly suspect the advice was to catch those services. At the very least catch a service to Woking and change.

Don't be silly. People of Guildford can't be using stoppers and 455s, even if they're the fastest option! :lol: Much better to moan about no fasts! :roll: (likewise Richmond and Twickenham)
 
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RichardN

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Last time I got caught by a delayed train missing a connection at Guildford, I got to Surbiton even later by trying to be smart and changing at Woking than by waiting almost half an hour for the next 'via Cobham'. The junction makes tight connections risky at Woking.. Especially to P3...

Some of the scheduled waits at West Byfleet don't help journey times via that route either....
 

HarleyDavidson

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If you catch a down stopper to Woking bay from Surbiton, you have (if it arrives on time) 5' to get across or you'll have to wait for the xx:25/55.

If you catch the xx:00/30 down Basingstoke you'll have just 5' to wait on the same platform at Woking (5).

If you catch the xx:41/11, you'll have to wait 13' on the same platform.
 

infobleep

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If you catch a down stopper to Woking bay from Surbiton, you have (if it arrives on time) 5' to get across or you'll have to wait for the xx:25/55.

If you catch the xx:00/30 down Basingstoke you'll have just 5' to wait on the same platform at Woking (5).

If you catch the xx:41/11, you'll have to wait 13' on the same platform.

But not necessarily between 17.00 and 20.00 Monday to Friday.

The 19.25 service from Woking was cancelled last night so I couldn't get that. It was only because they extended the late running 18.44 to Guildford that I didn't travel via Cobham. As it was it didn't arrive into Guildford much before the 18.57 was timetabled to.
 

GodAtum

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Don't be silly. People of Guildford can't be using stoppers and 455s, even if they're the fastest option! :lol: Much better to moan about no fasts! :roll: (likewise Richmond and Twickenham)

Exactly, I would not lower myself to get an awful train through the backwaters of Surrey :lol:
 

infobleep

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Exactly, I would not lower myself to get an awful train through the backwaters of Surrey :lol:
Well all the people on the Cobham line use them and the houses around Cobham are not exactly cheap. The trains are busy during peak so people are using them.
 

theironroad

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Exactly, I would not lower myself to get an awful train through the backwaters of Surrey :lol:

God forbid!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well all the people on the Cobham line use them and the houses around Cobham are not exactly cheap. The trains are busy during peak so people are using them.

You not sense even a hint of sarcasm in the comment?
 

jayah

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Don't get staff going about WICC! I don't think you'll find that there'll be anything complimentary said.

And if the staff did get going about them the moderators would have a nervous breakdown, 455 driver will probably be able to attest to what I've said, but all I will say is that some of the decisions they make are to say the least crass & bizarre! :roll:

I recall some disruption on the Reading line some years ago. It was decided that a down Waterloo would run fast from Martins Heron, either to Wokingham or Reading.

The staff at Bracknell were not impressed by the perceived importance of Martins Heron and provided feedback on the management decision in a fashion that was clearly heard by many of their delayed customers!
 

bb21

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Don't get staff going about WICC! I don't think you'll find that there'll be anything complimentary said.

And if the staff did get going about them the moderators would have a nervous breakdown, 455 driver will probably be able to attest to what I've said, but all I will say is that some of the decisions they make are to say the least crass & bizarre! :roll:

You are right about the moderators, at least this one, being less than impressed.

Do you have anything positive to say ever?

WICC staff are excellent in many respects imo so that proves your first assertion wrong. They are by no means perfect but they work damn hard and try their best to ensure that things get going as quickly and smoothly as possible during disruption. Do you actually understand the extent of the disruption? Do you know how much pressure WICC staff are under? Do you make perfect decisions every single time? Have you tried coordinating a large number of services all out of position and at the same time bearing in mind requirements from various stakeholders?

Put yourself in their shoes and you may be a bit more understanding of the difficulties they sometimes face. :roll:
 

HarleyDavidson

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You are right about the moderators, at least this one, being less than impressed.

Do you have anything positive to say ever?

WICC staff are excellent in many respects imo so that proves your first assertion wrong. They are by no means perfect but they work damn hard and try their best to ensure that things get going as quickly and smoothly as possible during disruption. Do you actually understand the extent of the disruption? Do you know how much pressure WICC staff are under? Do you make perfect decisions every single time? Have you tried coordinating a large number of services all out of position and at the same time bearing in mind requirements from various stakeholders?

Put yourself in their shoes and you may be a bit more understanding of the difficulties they sometimes face. :roll:

I would discuss this with you, but I know that you'll just give me either a ban/points for having a dissenting opinion of them.

However I & many others elsewhere will tell you that you are wrong.
 

Pumbaa

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It is possible to have a dissenting opinion, and to present it in the right way ya know ;)
 

HarleyDavidson

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Pumbaa, I have and its always ended up with me getting points or a holiday.

So now, as I see it, it's a futile thing. No wonder this board has the reputation that it does. :roll:
 

theironroad

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You are right about the moderators, at least this one, being less than impressed.

Do you have anything positive to say ever?

WICC staff are excellent in many respects imo so that proves your first assertion wrong. They are by no means perfect but they work damn hard and try their best to ensure that things get going as quickly and smoothly as possible during disruption. Do you actually understand the extent of the disruption? Do you know how much pressure WICC staff are under? Do you make perfect decisions every single time? Have you tried coordinating a large number of services all out of position and at the same time bearing in mind requirements from various stakeholders?

Put yourself in their shoes and you may be a bit more understanding of the difficulties they sometimes face. :roll:

Your last sentence should be applied equally to the Wicc.

Yes, there is pressure on them to sort the service out,but they need to understand that drivers and guards have to work to set rules and they often have hundreds of passengers putting pressure on 1 guard and 1 driver for answers NOW and there is silence from the WICC. They need to walk in the shoes of traincrew in serious disruption.

Additionally, is the attitude of a cohort of people working in the WICC (not all) who think only they have every solution to every problem and go la la la and put their fingers in ears when train crew make constructive suggestions to get passengers moving. Unfortunately, there are also a few staff in the WICC who are downright rude, arrogant and aggressive when speaking to traincrew.

So, sure defend the WICC if you want, but don't take a holier than thou attitude that they are perfect.
 

infobleep

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RichardN

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OK Hopefully not a question that will cause a row. What does WICC stand for?

Waterloo _something_ Control Centre?
 

RichardN

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Ta,

If I was running SWT, and I was getting this kind of feedback, I think I'd run some scenario training with WICC staff trying to deal with a simulated issue or set of issues and drivers and guards at the end of comms lines acting the parts of of drivers and guards stuck in different places, with a feedback section at the end so the frontline staff can ask why control made this decision instead of that decision.
 
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