Sheffield to Shenfield Cheaper to Fly

[sheff1]

Intelligent ticketing systems could clearly offer cheap tickets at £5 or £10 at the last minute for any train that is not full, but they won't.

XC do precisely that.

Not exactly. Last year I booked a last minute XC ticket to Plymouth for less than £2 whilst I was standing on the platform at St Austell. The train, though, was full and standing when it pulled in ... but my ticket allowed me to turf someone out of what was now my reserved seat !

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not exactly. Last year I booked a last minute XC ticket to Plymouth for less than £2 whilst I was standing on the platform at St Austell. The train, though, was full and standing when it pulled in ... but my ticket allowed me to turf someone out of what was now my reserved seat !

But what that of course does is price-differentiates. Those who have time or inclination will save money by searching online, and maybe delay their journey to a cheaper train. Those who don't will walk up to the TVM or ticket office and buy an Anytime ticket at a far higher price.

 

[edwin_m]

Try something like this a few times, sooner or later you'll end up hitting a big delay on the outward leg. As a minimum you'd miss your free day in Berlin/wherever, but in the worst case you'd find out how much it costs to book a return flight at the last minute (or bale before setting out and buy a walk-up train ticket). I think that would wipe out several journeys worth of savings.

 

[ExRes]

Even the Daily Mail noted he booked the journey 3 weeks in advance so even if his passport was at the other address there would have been time to post it to him.

My apologies for not being a Daily Mail reader, the only source for this story that I've read is on the BBC, which gives no indication that he had pre booked anything whatsoever

 

[Mike395]

Try something like this a few times, sooner or later you'll end up hitting a big delay on the outward leg. As a minimum you'd miss your free day in Berlin/wherever, but in the worst case you'd find out how much it costs to book a return flight at the last minute (or bale before setting out and buy a walk-up train ticket). I think that would wipe out several journeys worth of savings.

For this reason - I'd only ever do this if I had (at a minimum) 10 hours between the flights on the continent.

 

[sheff1]

My point was that XC sell ridiculously cheap tickets for trains which are already overcrowded at the time of sale rather than "not full".

 

[northwichcat]

My apologies for not being a Daily Mail reader, the only source for this story that I've read is on the BBC, which gives no indication that he had pre booked anything whatsoever

The Daily Mail article is in the opening post - for some reason.

 

[jon0844]

My apologies for not being a Daily Mail reader, the only source for this story that I've read is on the BBC, which gives no indication that he had pre booked anything whatsoever

The story is all over. Not just the BBC and Daily Mail. I assume MSE sent out a press release to get maximum coverage, as well as taking full advantage of social media.

I am sure in due course we'll learn a few more details to confirm this was a clever marketing stunt.

I think the BBC was cautious, hence not giving too much prominence to the blog and never mentioning the airline.

 

[The Prisoner]

If this idiot represents "Money Saving" then god help them.

He compares peak walk up fares to a freak 1p plus taxes weeks-in-advance sale and then hadn't got the intelligence to buy a Young Persons Railcard?!

The truth certainly hasn't got in the way of a "good" story.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My point was that XC sell ridiculously cheap tickets for trains which are already overcrowded at the time of sale rather than "not full".

Yes, this is rather a bugbear of mine, but highlights that yield management is about extracting the maximum possible income from a service, not ensuring it is filled to 100% seated capacity and not one bit more. It could be used to achieve the latter, but it seems TOCs are unwilling, understandably, to do this on their own.

 

[swt_passenger]

The BBC story about this gives an example of a Bournemouth to Liverpool Lime St journey on April the 7th and is quoting the trainline finding a minimum fare of £113 on a XC advance. (1445 quoted)

But I just found XC advances at £48.90 on a couple of trains. (0945 and 1145). Rather destroys the BBC bloke's argument about travelling a bit earlier by air...

Going from Bournemouth to Liverpool by air can work out £40 cheaper than going there by train - as long as you're prepared to go via Mallorca.
Analysis of flights and rail services shows how people who are prepared to spend longer travelling and go potentially thousands of miles out of their way can cut the costs, at the expense of their carbon footprint.
A rail ticket from Bournemouth to Liverpool Lime Street on 7 April 2016 would set someone back £113 today, according to thetrainline.com booking service.
Starting at 14:45 BST and with a change at Birmingham New Street the five-hour 266-mile journey works out at about 43p per mile.
However, someone willing to set out earlier, take a bus to Bournemouth Airport then fly at 09:10 BST to Mallorca and on to Liverpool John Lennon Airport could will pay £72.31, or 3 pence per mile once the bus at the other end is taken into consideration.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35424393

 

[Bletchleyite]

The story is that the pricing model of Ryanair differs from the pricing model of the railway, but some people seem to be too thick to understand that basic point.

It is amusing for him to say what he did, just as it's quite amusing for me to tell a tale of when me and 2 friends had a night on the lash in Poznan for less total outlay than a night on the lash in London from MK (this is factually true, we added it up), but there is nothing miraculous nor outrageous about either story.

 

[infobleep]

My apologies for not being a Daily Mail reader, the only source for this story that I've read is on the BBC, which gives no indication that he had pre booked anything whatsoever

You can't expect the BBC online News to give you that sort of information.

I don't know what's worse, the BBC online news or the Daily Mail. Probably the Daily Mail for its right wing views. T Keats the BBC try to be balanced, even if I find the report badly written or at Least badly structured at times.
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Of course it helped that he lived not to far from the airport.

I've looked at flying from Stansted in the past and the cost to reach the airport has been as much as the fight! I'm talking about a week day morning here. So flight might be £38 and train fare similar.

There are of course no advanced fares from Guildford to Stansted Airport as far as I'm aware.

Fortunately I'm not so far away from Gatwick Airport so I tend to use that when flying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The BBC story about this gives an example of a Bournemouth to Liverpool Lime St journey on April the 7th and is quoting the trainline finding a minimum fare of £113 on a XC advance. (1245 presumably?)

But I just found XC advances at £48.90 on a couple of trains. (0945 and 1145). Rather destroys his argument about travelling a bit earlier by air...

It's quite possible the Advances had not been released by then - another difference in business models people forget. In particular a train is reservable far before any cheap fare quotas are available, while a plane is not reservable until the fares are entered.

 

[The Prisoner]

The story is that the pricing model of Ryanair differs from the pricing model of the railway, but some people seem to be too thick to understand that basic point.

It is amusing for him to say what he did, just as it's quite amusing for me to tell a tale of when me and 2 friends had a night on the lash in Poznan for less total outlay than a night on the lash in London from MK (this is factually true, we added it up), but there is nothing miraculous nor outrageous about either story.

Not quite......my issue is that this guy is sitting looking smug about it and trying to be taken seriously when his "story" is full of inconsistencies. He is supposed to be a Money Saving Expert and lauds himself as such, but this is a c**p effort to save money and is an exercise in self promotion.

Your night on the lash in Poznan was no doubt awesome, but did you try and get it all over the press?!

It should just have read "Tight Kid finds cheap flights to Berlin in sale"

Plus he looks like Sid from Skins.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's quite possible the Advances had not been released by then - another difference in business models people forget. In particular a train is reservable far before any cheap fare quotas are available, while a plane is not reservable until the fares are entered.

Its equally likely he just landed on the default times on the trainline because that was the time he started his query, and failed to check any earlier or later trains.

(What I'm thinking here is that even when you select a date well into the future the booking engines still preload the times as though you probably want to travel in the next couple of hours, rather than leaving them to be filled in.)

Logically though, why would the £113 advance be showing (yesterday?) but not the lower priced ones?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think that is actually a walk up fare.

 

[tony_mac]

An easyjet A319 produces about 12 tonnes of carbon in each direction (http://www.greengauge21.net/wp-content/uploads/Energy-Consumption-and-CO2-impacts.pdf page 13) and carries 156 seats. That's (12 * 2 * 220 / 156) $5280, or £3300 of "social cost", or £21 per passenger for a return trip, assuming a 100% load factor, so lets call it £40 return.

http://www.ecopassenger.org/ reckons Paris to Nice is 7.3kg per person for 560 miles, so a 900 mile each way trip would be 23kg, or about 1/10th a 50% loaded easyjet plane.

I'm somewhat suspicious of these generic 'per-passenger' figures, there is obviously huge variability - e.g.; most French electricity is Nuclear-powered, so the Co2 emissions are very much lower (but there are obviously other environmental impacts).

To compare with UK figures that we can calculate - an HST uses about 4.5l / km. Assuming 250 passengers average (the whole-day figure in the UK looks to be lower), and 2.7kg Co2/l, that's ~140kg Co2 per person for the 2900km return journey.

Easyjet flights operate at about 90% capacity; which would make the 12 tonnes about 170kg per passenger.
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Actually, having looked at the site again - it is more accurate than I thought. However, it shows that rail Co2 emissions in France are close to 90% lower than in other parts of Europe, like the UK.

 

[miami]

I'm somewhat suspicious of these generic 'per-passenger' figures, there is obviously huge variability - e.g.; most French electricity is Nuclear-powered, so the Co2 emissions are very much lower (but there are obviously other environmental impacts).

So am I, but the HST figures aren't going to go lower, and the plane figures aren't going to go higher, and the cost of carbon is high. Everything is stacked in the "anti-plane" favour

- Very low CO2 figures for train use per person
- Very high CO2 figures for plane use per person
- No value on time
- No looking at the cost of infrastructure, especially the need for more tracks under the tunnel (there's over a thousand easyjet flights from UK to Europe every day, you'd need a headway of about 5 seconds to get the required number of non-stop trains.
- unrealistic financial implications of a direct non stop 200mph from the north west to Berlin which probably has a market around the 300 people a day thus meaning the train (which works best with long trains and high load factors) wouldn't work

yet the figures come out that flying is still more sensible

 

[Bletchleyite]

Your night on the lash in Poznan was no doubt awesome, but did you try and get it all over the press?!

No, not at all, we just talked about in, err, the pub. And its cheapness had more to do with the price of beer and pub food in London at the quantities consumed than travel costs.

 

[Clip]

(there's over a thousand easyjet flights from UK to Europe every day,

Is there? wow never knew it was that many ...

 

[talltim]

It is amusing for him to say what he did, just as it's quite amusing for me to tell a tale of when me and 2 friends had a night on the lash in Poznan for less total outlay than a night on the lash in London from MK (this is factually true, we added it up), but there is nothing miraculous nor outrageous about either story.

Nothing outrageous? You need to work on your drinking sessions!
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The other thing about the story of course, is that he missed out on some train travel, and that's the fun bit.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Nothing outrageous? You need to work on your drinking sessions!
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The other thing about the story of course, is that he missed out on some train travel, and that's the fun bit.

there's the train from/to Schonefeld Airport

 

[Merseysider]

Bit of a non-story really, just reads as a slightly weird kid looking for attention in the press. I've flown Basel-London for a fiver, but I didn't make a song and dance about it and preach about how expensive the train would be. Theoretically, he could have cycled the whole way in the time it took him to go via Berlin, and that would have been better for the environment, his pocket, and his health. Oh wait, that wouldn't make the news.

 

[Mojo]

It doesn't make any sense at all.

If he is supposedly a "money saver" then why is he spending £2.99 on a toastie? There are far cheaper/better value options available.

If time is not an issue, then why did he not just wait around for a cheap fare? East Midlands still have a £19.80 Advance on the last train of the day, and Megabus are selling £5 and £6 tickets for travel in just a few hours time!

I don't know when the flight was booked, or if there was some kind of cashback or other currency involved, but I've never come across a Ryanair flight from East Midlands priced at £11.83, all the flights looking here cost more, and all the prices end in a 9. Ryanair don't do "Open Jaw" so all flights from Berlin booked as a single would be paid for in Euros, so I don't know the exchange rate.

 

[DarloRich]

If he is supposedly a "money saver" then why is he spending £2.99 on a toastie? There are far cheaper/better value options available.

Aye - pack your own butties!

 

[swt_passenger]

I think that is actually a walk up fare.

No, it's definitely an advance.

 

[miami]

It doesn't make any sense at all.

If he is supposedly a "money saver" then why is he spending £2.99 on a toastie? There are far cheaper/better value options available.

If time is not an issue, then why did he not just wait around for a cheap fare? East Midlands still have a £19.80 Advance on the last train of the day, and Megabus are selling £5 and £6 tickets for travel in just a few hours time!

I don't know when the flight was booked, or if there was some kind of cashback or other currency involved, but I've never come across a Ryanair flight from East Midlands priced at £11.83, all the flights looking here cost more, and all the prices end in a 9. Ryanair don't do "Open Jaw" so all flights from Berlin booked as a single would be paid for in Euros, so I don't know the exchange rate.

It makes perfect sense, as jonmorris0844 said - it's an excelent PR move from MSE and/or Ryanair, which will have recouped the cost of it a thousand-fold in publicity.

The .83 probably came from the exchange rate.

The story is all over. Not just the BBC and Daily Mail. I assume MSE sent out a press release to get maximum coverage, as well as taking full advantage of social media.

I am sure in due course we'll learn a few more details to confirm this was a clever marketing stunt.

I think the BBC was cautious, hence not giving too much prominence to the blog and never mentioning the airline.

Full credit to the BBC. They had to cover it, as it's a viral thing, and people would no doubt scream censorship.

MSE/Ryanairs PR firm gives out a full clickbait-ready news story to news desks, all they have to do is copy and paste into their CMS and they're good to go, no cost generating the story, thousands of eyes on it, lots of advertising revenue, and free coverage for the clients of the PR firm. Everybody wins.

 

[RichmondCommu]

The arrogance of some forum members never fails to surprise. Why would you think you have the right to fly to a holiday in another country? You don't. Get over it. The fact that you can is something you should be grateful for, not something to take for granted. And DarloRich I know your post reflects your own selfish attitude but that doesn't justify it. It's far from true that everyone thinks like that regardless of your views.

You waxed lyrical over your "well crafted argument" and you accuse me of arrogance?? If you don't feel that my wife and I have the right to fly to another country what makes you think that you have the right to travel first class from London St Pancras to the North? Given the number of cheap offers on European destinations I shouldn't have to be grateful for anything! This isn't the 1930's where air travel barely existed.

 

[Mojo]

It makes perfect sense, as jonmorris0844 said - it's an excelent PR move from MSE and/or Ryanair, which will have recouped the cost of it a thousand-fold in publicity.

Oh I understand what the "sense" is behind publishing the story; but the story itself makes no sense!

The .83 probably came from the exchange rate.

If booking a single Ryanair flight from the UK you would pay in Pounds.