Leeds Station concourse and platform improvements

[Grumpy]

Used the new entrance today just after 9am - not very busy - made the mistake of using Dark Neville exit - not very enticing and certainly wouldnt want to use at night. Granary Wharf exit looks better. I noticed there appears to be no sign posting to the new entrance from the nearby roads

I noted in today's "Yorkshire Post" that the Council are saying the new entrance had 20,000 users last week, including 4000 on Thursday.

 

[deltic]

Came back at 17.30 and a few more people were using it but entrance from roads are not signposted - one seemed to be blocked off and even from little Neville Street the walk to it is quite dark and uninviting. Should be a lot more pleasant in the summer

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Judging by this and the 'spot the passenger' video, I would say £20m spent, and the terrible crowding problem around the main gateline has not been dealt with at all. Perhaps now they will be able to find £2m to make a proper job of it, by building a second entrance facing the city centre, where people actually want to go. Never mind making very expensive architectural statements....

I'm generally OK with crowds, but Leeds station can be a horrible place to be at busy times, to the extent that I'll consider using the southern exit to get to the shops in spite of the longer walk!

 

[jayah]

I noted in today's "Yorkshire Post" that the Council are saying the new entrance had 20,000 users last week, including 4000 on Thursday.

I am genuinely surprised they had the nerve to release these figures.

The footfall at Leeds is pushing 29m a year and they have spent £20m on an entrance used by less than 4% of them. Another years growth and they will be back where they started.

 

[Starmill]

The footfall at Leeds is pushing 29m a year and they have spent £20m on an entrance used by less than 4% of them. Another years growth and they will be back where they started.

In the first week of opening? :roll:

 

[sheff1]

In the first week of opening? :roll:

I am certain there would have been a far higher % of people using a city facing exit off (or near to) the east footbridge in the first week

 

[Starmill]

I am certain there would have been a far higher % of people using a city facing exit off (or near to) the east footbridge in the first week

Hardly relevant to the success or otherwise of this entrance.

 

[sheff1]

Hardly relevant to the success or otherwise of this entrance.

Seems perfectly relevant in the context of the recent discussion.

 

[Grumpy]

I have heard it is now planned to close the steps down to Bishopsgate St.
Presumably the geniuses who planned the southern entrance are saying this is no longer required.
However as a regular user of the Scarborough Taps I would agree. Closing the steps will probably add 5 minutes to my journey times, and this will similarly apply to travellers coming from the Swinegate direction, together with those approaching from the south who wish to use the main concourse shops and eateries

 

[jayah]

In the first week of opening? :roll:

It isn't exactly a state secret.

It didn't take long for Ebbw Vale, Apperley Bridge or the Borders Railway to become clear successes.

The discussion can be revisited after 3 quarters, but the conclusion will almost certainly be the same.

The three examples above take people to where they want to go. The vast and overwhelming majority of people leaving Leeds station want to go to the shops and offices in the City Centre, and the £20m entrance does not take them there.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... The vast and overwhelming majority of people leaving Leeds station want to go to the shops and offices in the City Centre, and the £20m entrance does not take them there.

If you look at it benignly, you could see it as a rare example of required infrastructure being put in place before anticipated demand - a sensible approach too rarely found. On the other hand, given the city Fathers' track record, it could be seen as the pre-calf of another enormous white elephant. Only time will tell.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I have heard it is now planned to close the steps down to Bishopsgate St.
Presumably the geniuses who planned the southern entrance are saying this is no longer required.
However as a regular user of the Scarborough Taps I would agree. Closing the steps will probably add 5 minutes to my journey times, and this will similarly apply to travellers coming from the Swinegate direction, together with those approaching from the south who wish to use the main concourse shops and eateries

I'll assume you meant to say "disagree". Are these the steps by the cycle centre and taxi rank? I don't think they'll be missed much- I tend to use them to get to the shops but as people in Leeds (and Huddersfield for that matter!) don't seem to adopt the common-sense idea that you should walk on the left, I'm surprised there hasn't been lots of incidents of falling down them. They also seem to be the last part of the station area yet to be brought into the 21st century so if they go, I and others will just use New Station Street as I do when I'm heading back home. If people from the South side need to access the main concourse shops they'll still be able to do so by using the shiny new Southern Entrance and the nice warm, dry bridge.

The Scarborough Taps will be slightly harder to access though, I'll give you that. It's always full of Leeds fans anyway though!

 

[Gemz91]

This new southern entrance is quite handy for the "new" red light district that has been created in Holbeck.

 

[yorksrob]

Those steps always feel a bit wobbly to me anyway, so that might be part of the reason for closing the steps.

Also, the new entrance looks handy for The Hop.

 

[Iskra]

This new southern entrance is quite handy for the "new" red light district that has been created in Holbeck.

Handy for Elland Road on matchday, Holbecks' premier attraction.

Those steps always feel a bit wobbly to me anyway, so that might be part of the reason for closing the steps.

Also, the new entrance looks handy for The Hop.

Those steps were awful. The Hop and other bars/restaurants in that area are very popular at the moment.

I think the new entrance is going to do well, but it will take time.

Surely every little helps when it comes to relieving the main concourse of people at peak hours. It's like 'Bulldogs charge' trying to get through there sometimes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There's a lot of business south of the river, with more businesses moving there all the time. The entrance is needed.

I see precious little point in putting a new entrance in 50 yards up New Station Street, and have absolutely no idea why jayah thinks this would be necessary, given there are already two entrances to the station that face the city centre.

 

[Oswyntail]

.... have absolutely no idea why jayah thinks this would be necessary, given there are already two entrances to the station that face the city centre.

Well, one and a quarter, really, as they both feed off the single gateline. An entrance at the east end would reduce congestion on and towards that gateline, and stop the ridiculous waste of effort of people arriving at the east end tootling to the gateline only to walk back along the road only a fence width from where they detrained.

 

[johntea]

Oh dear.

These stupid 'enforced' luggage barriers annoy me so much!

 

[Adam0984]

They won't annoy you when your tumbling down the escalators because the pushchair or large case has taken a tumble down and knocked you flying

 

[Starmill]

It furstrates me that I have to slow down even further to navigate yet another obstacle in this dingy, congested and very poorly laid out station. Eugh.

 

[Tetchytyke]

An entrance at the east end would reduce congestion on and towards that gateline

Personally, I'm sceptical; it didn't make much difference when, in the days of the manual barrier, they used to open the gate on platform 8 in the morning peak.

You could probably justify putting in a small peak-only gateline by that gate, but the idea that there should be a whole new entrance 50 yards from the existing one is madness.

As for the barriers preventing people taking huge suitcases and buggies on to the escalator, they're annoying but they're needed because people are idiots. I've seen some idiot with a suitcase bigger than they are play skittles on the escalator once too often at Leeds.

As for walking a long way to end up where you started, I used to have a lot of meetings at or near the Doubletree. *That* walk was irritating.

 

[yorksrob]

With regard to the escalator barriers, I noticed that I can't go through with my rucksack without twisting sideways !

 

[jayah]

Personally, I'm sceptical; it didn't make much difference when, in the days of the manual barrier, they used to open the gate on platform 8 in the morning peak.

You could probably justify putting in a small peak-only gateline by that gate, but the idea that there should be a whole new entrance 50 yards from the existing one is madness.

As for the barriers preventing people taking huge suitcases and buggies on to the escalator, they're annoying but they're needed because people are idiots. I've seen some idiot with a suitcase bigger than they are play skittles on the escalator once too often at Leeds.

As for walking a long way to end up where you started, I used to have a lot of meetings at or near the Doubletree. *That* walk was irritating.

The east bridge to New Station St is a lot more this 50 yards figure, going via the main gateline!

The main gateline is horribly congested, even at busy leisure times, not just in the commuter peak. The new entrance is a spectacular waste of money and does not address the crowding problem, which is here and now.

If it was a proper entrance it would be used, until then most will use the main transfer deck, as if they find the gate is locked it will often be even further to go via the main gateline.

I am frankly fed up of hearing how wonderful it will all be in 15 years when Holbeck is like a metropolitan incarnation of Venice or some such!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The main gateline is horribly congested, even at busy leisure times, not just in the commuter peak. The new entrance is a spectacular waste of money and does not address the crowding problem, which is here and now.

There is no significant crowding issue at the main gateline except at peak commuter times (or occasionally after a Leeds United home match). What crowding there is could easily be solved by getting rid of Burger King, which I believe is what is happening.

The main business (as opposed to shopping) district has moved southwards to around Bridgewater Place and Brewery Wharf. Leeds' biggest businesses are now largely south of the river. We're not talking about 15 years in the future, we're talking about the here and now.

As for shopping, it's the same distance from platforms 15/16/17 to the shops at Trinity whether you go via the main gateline or the new entrance. The Dark Arches should be more appealing once the refurbishment is completed, but I'll be honest, I've never had any issues either in the Dark Arches or along Neville Street, and I've been going to The Hop for years.

Full disclaimer: I quite like the new entrance because it saves me ten minutes getting from The Hop to the station, that's time for another half of Yorkshire Blonde

The distance along New Station Street from the main 60s concourse at M&S to the steel gate on platform 8 is about 50 yards.

 

[TUC]

The problem with the escalator barrier is that it causes problems for passengers without large baggage. If you're trying to keep hold of a couple of children, or are just a passenger rather larger than average size, the barrier is difficult to negotiate.

A classic case of an engineering solution without any regard to the realities of passengers.

 

[Starmill]

There isn't really much of an issue with there not being enough gates, it's just that they're crap.

 

[edwin_m]

If the main gateline was improved wouldn't it just shift the crush to the escalators, where it would be more dangerous? An eastern access would relieve this by transferring some people to the eastern footbridge, although those to/from western platforms might still use the main bridge. A southern entrance would probably give a net reduction in use of the main escalators, although people to/from the northern bays would use them where they didn't previously.

 

[Grumpy]

If the main gateline was improved wouldn't it just shift the crush to the escalators, where it would be more dangerous? An eastern access would relieve this by transferring some people to the eastern footbridge, although those to/from western platforms might still use the main bridge. A southern entrance would probably give a net reduction in use of the main escalators, although people to/from the northern bays would use them where they didn't previously.

If there is a need for relief then an eastern access would be valuable.
Of course a better solution would be an additional station alongside the bus station. Putting the £20m towards that would have been better.

 

[driverlewis]

If there is a need for relief then an eastern access would be valuable.
Of course a better solution would be an additional station alongside the bus station. Putting the £20m towards that would have been better.

The line next to the bus station is heavily crowded by buildings on each side and a park area, their is the bridge going over the main road but that would cost way to much, the only place that seems reasonable would be on the outskirts of Leeds if where think of money and not knocking down the buildings

 

[Oswyntail]

The line next to the bus station is heavily crowded by buildings on each side and a park area, their is the bridge going over the main road but that would cost way to much, the only place that seems reasonable would be on the outskirts of Leeds if where think of money and not knocking down the buildings

This was a part of yet another typically grandiose scheme around 1992. The plan was to have a station on the distribution centre/Woodpecker Car Park across the road to the East of Quarry House, to service the business/hotel/entertainment complex that was being built on Quarry Hill. Quarry House had just been occupied, the Playhouse was newly opened, and the rest....? A couple of individual developments have cropped up, but there is still the derelict/landscaped area that, for me, symbolises Leeds.