Will First Transpennine Express cease to serve Blackpool North?

[ValleyLines142]

I really hope the Blackpool to Manchester services aren't downgraded to 156s. 185s are great for the job!

 

[Ianno87]

I really hope the Blackpool to Manchester services aren't downgraded to 156s. 185s are great for the job!

Too late, they already have been. 4-car 156 = More seats than a 3-car 185.

 

[sprinterguy]

Too late, they already have been.

Well, some of them, but by no means all (EDIT: Most, it would seem, so I'll be quiet now ).

 

[northwichcat]

Well, some of them, but by no means all.

3 of out 4 diagrams so roughly 75% of services.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Too late, they already have been. 4-car 156 = More seats than a 3-car 185.

Yes. Although, trolley service, seat reservations and FC have gone as a direct consequence of that, plus a couple of services are 4 car 156s instead of 6 car 185s.

 

[Philip]

The Llandudno services are timed at 100mph with 156s being 75max. ATW Drivers are not conversant with 156s and they would have to see Liverpool for their Maintenance at Allerton.

Class 158s from Northern then, just to be used on Llandudno diagrams and not going near Cambrian services. I think 100mph units ought to be used for Cumbria services really and if 185s aren't used then the obvious interim will be 175s if some shuffling around can be done, considering route clearance won't be needed for 175s on NW services. An early morning/late evening ECS from Chester to Blackpool or Manchester and back is all that's needed, was it a complicated movement operationally when this used to happen? Will any drivers still retain knowledge of the units?

When ATW 'had' to provide 11 units a day to Northern/TPE - was there a minimum/set number of 3-car units required in the allocation? The idea of a 'whatever's available' arrangement seems unlikely and not organised, but some TPE services used to vary from a 2-car set one day to a 3-car set the next.

 

[sprinterguy]

3 of out 4 diagrams so roughly 75% of services.

Huh, honestly didn't realise it was that many. Cheers for the amendment.

 

[swt_passenger]

Nothing will change until May timetable change date, diagrams and rosters all agreed until then. This will be a similar situation as per XC and WC between Birmingham and Scotland via the WCML when XC ceased to serve Glasgow via Preston.

Agree it is likely the same people will carry on running the same stock on these services, but wasn't it emphasised in one of the other earlier TPE/Northern discussions that the 'TOC responsible' for running these services does change on the franchise start date of April 1st? So will information displays and timetables start showing Northern vice TPE on April 1st, even if the train that shows up is still a TPE 185??

 

[northwichcat]

So will information displays and timetables start showing Northern on April 1st?

A number of LED displays say "Northern" currently not "Northern Rail."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

When ATW 'had' to provide 11 units a day to Northern/TPE - was there a minimum/set number of 3-car units required in the allocation? The idea of a 'whatever's available' arrangement seems unlikely and not organised, but some TPE services used to vary from a 2-car set one day to a 3-car set the next.

I **think** if ATW provided the 11 x 175/0s that would have been OK but they had to provide 11 sets opposed to 22 carriages.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I remember seeing a Merseyrail 142 at Penmaenmawr after ATW had taken over, it happened on a number of occasions. I also had the pleasure of an FNW 142 running an ATW service from Chester - Manchester via Warrington. It failed with a door fault and took 10-15 minutes to get going.

The old FNW diagrams remained the same until 2004. The Mid-Cheshire line had services operated by 158s and 175s driven by drivers in ATW uniform, while FNW crews and units appeared on services which ATW had taken over.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A number of LED displays say "Northern" currently not "Northern Rail."

They always did.

 

[northwichcat]

They always did.

That's what I was getting at, no change needs to be made at some stations.

The Virgin and ATW managed stations did used to incorrectly say "Northern Trains" which got changed to "Northern" but the Network Rail managed stations do say "Northern Rail" as they have done since 2004, while the new bare bones CIS' which Northern have recently fitted say Northern.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's what I was getting at, no change needs to be made at some stations.

I think you missed the question which was whether they have changed from *TPE* to Northern yet.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think you missed the question which was whether they have changed from *TPE* to Northern yet.

Have amended the question to make it clearer what I was getting at.

 

[northwichcat]

even if the train that shows up is still a TPE 185??

It doesn't really matter what livery the train is in, as 'on hire' or similar notices can be put up if the livery and operator running the service don't match.

 

[swt_passenger]

It doesn't really matter what livery the train is in, as 'on hire' or similar notices can be put up if the livery and operator running the service don't match.

That wasn't the question either. I asked if the present TPE services will be displayed as Northern services on and after April 1st; even if the actual diagramming doesn't get altered until the next timetable change (in May).

 

[northwichcat]

Sounds like rolling stock for services transferring from TPE to (Arriva) Northern isn't yet confirmed.

Arriva told RAIL that it was not yet able to say whether it would operate Class 156s on these routes, or whether it would be taking over some of FTPE’s Class 185s that are currently used on these services. - See more at: http://www.railmagazine.com/news/ne...ern-re-mapping-under-way#sthash.WZ2HrOeJ.dpuf

 

[Greybeard33]

3 of out 4 diagrams so roughly 75% of services.

No, roughly 63% of Blackpool-Manchester services are currently 156-operated on weekdays. Twelve 156 services each way and seven 185 services. It is difficult to compare the number of diagrams (no. of individual units), because the 185s rotate between the Blackpool and Cumbria services and often split/join at Preston, while the 156s mostly operate paired to Blackpool. Overall for Blackpool+Cumbria, most of the day it is 6x156 diagrams and 5x185 diagrams, i.e 54% 156s. But in terms of carriages that is 12x156 and 15x185, so only 44% 156s. 185s are still providing about half of the total capacity on the NW routes.

See this post for the 156 diagrams (only minor changes since then) and Post #26 of this thread for the 185 diagrams.

 

[Philip]

Sounds like rolling stock for services transferring from TPE to (Arriva) Northern isn't yet confirmed.

If Arriva don't go with 185s (or 175s), would I be right in thinking this would be the first time Windermere station and the branch have held a train that isn't either a 175 or a 185 since about 2001?

 

[Crossover]

If Arriva don't go with 185s (or 175s), would I be right in thinking this would be the first time Windermere station and the branch have held a train that isn't either a 175 or a 185 since about 2001?

There may have been RHTT's? If passenger only though, then I'm not sure