Newcastle has always had a reputation for a good/wild/party night out more than other cities
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TPE franchise awarded to First
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Newcastle has always had a reputation for a good/wild/party night out more than other cities
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F Great Eastern
Established Member
Did I miss something?
Why did they oust Nick Donovan?
Why did they oust Nick Donovan?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Apparently he stood down after First decided he won't be MD for the next franchise.
I think it's more to do with the places the train passes through, and the types of people that get on, than anything else.
London Midland have similar issues with their weekend evening services running out from Liverpool, having put in place alcohol bans after a series of disturbances. It would not surprise me if many of these people causing trouble were on these trains home having being slung out of pubs already.
Only recently a passenger from Liverpool was attacked and stabbed by a man in Winsford in Cheshire, after he told a bunch of hoodlums off for their behaviour (http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-man-stabbed-after-challenging-10675878). Cheshire has a reputation for being a bit posh, but mid Cheshire can be *rough*.
It's not a city or train issue, it's a society issue. Even without being as extreme as the above example, I find many peoples behaviour on trains shocking, especially under 30s. And I have to say I find the transpennine route not great for this, with carriages that can be littered with wine bottles, plastic cups and other matter, and rowdy behaviour. I think it needs a firm response so everyone can travel safely.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It seems to be an issue in particular parts of the UK, principally away from London. To use an example, the 0010 Euston-Northampton stopper on a Saturday night is 12 cars of pure drunkenness - but rarely is there ever a problem (other than petty stuff like pulling the cord) and if there is a stern word from another passenger tends to sort it. But why is the south WCML different?
Similarly the Tube - OK, consumption is now banned - but it's full of drunk people on a Saturday night with nothing like the trouble you seem to get around the Northern cities.
What gives?
Similarly the Tube - OK, consumption is now banned - but it's full of drunk people on a Saturday night with nothing like the trouble you seem to get around the Northern cities.
What gives?
I would say that there is also rarely "trouble" on these other services, but that the shouting and rowdiness is intimidating mostly.
As I say, it's not the cities, it's just some rough locations, along with that they seem to get away with their behaviour. Other services out of Lime Street at that time, including on the Merseyrail, which is obviously going to be used much more for "going out", are by contrast a picture of civility.
As I say, it's not the cities, it's just some rough locations, along with that they seem to get away with their behaviour. Other services out of Lime Street at that time, including on the Merseyrail, which is obviously going to be used much more for "going out", are by contrast a picture of civility.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
A lot has changed since the late 1990s but the last Ormskirk train was never that bad (though I do recall once a spliff being passed around the coach!)
One difference with Merseyrail is that because it finishes before midnight, most of those living locally will go home from their night out by taxi, as distances are short so this is mostly affordable. For those from further away, a taxi won't be affordable, so they will drink faster and get on the last train while still absorbing the alcohol and getting more drunk.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
A town being a bit posh doesn't even mean most of the passengers using the local station are posh. The posh people won't tend to use the train for local journeys and for Intercity journeys they'll usually drive to the nearest station with a direct train to the city they want to go to. The exception will be when they want to drink a lot of alcohol. I'm sure if you worked out the average income of passengers arriving at Chester by train on a normal day it would significantly lower than on a race day.
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The incident you mention was on New Year's Eve so it may have been the last train as many operators were finishing services early.
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An advert for Serco's "Rail Technical Services" appears to show a green 185 with blue doors: https://twitter.com/Serco_RTS/status/686909603272110081
Have Serco been trying to get some sort of contract with First relating to the 185s?
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dk1
Veteran Member
Has anybody else got any more input on the rumours of loco hauled stock working on TPx services on the WCML? Seems it's on the cards but all gone very quiet.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
There's rumours about a temporary use of loco-hauled to provide indirect replacements for the remaining 170s and extra capacity until the new trains are delivered. However, the latest suggestion I heard is Northern would take on a couple of extra loco-hauled sets meaning TPE can use the remaining 185s on North West services to replace the 170s without leaving Northern short.
dk1
Veteran Member
I have heard on the QT that progress has been made & it wasn't from rail pundits.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Was that recently or when TPE looked at a loco-hauled Scottish working on Fridays and Saturdays a year or two ago before apparently deciding against it?
dk1
Veteran Member
Very recently mate. Was told it would be during the second half of this year.
87015
Established Member
The ex WB64 set is off north but not sure if TPE or Northern. Seems AGA made a bit of a balls up with the lease on it and their MK3 overhaul plan is a bit up the creek without it..
dk1
Veteran Member
So what ya asking us for
Very rare that inside information stays that way long on the railway. We have little else to do but gossip for much of the time
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The internal telegragh is still alive & well
thealexweb
Member
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This is huge news is true, when did it make the journey north?
dk1
Veteran Member
It didn't. We are talking months away yet.
87015
Established Member
Only if they use engines of any quality, non interest to me if it's going to be 67 junk or skoda rubbish!!
Blindtraveler
Established Member
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Regardless of what pulls and pushes it, this is good news for rail in the North if indeed true.
What trains will be used on the Hull/Leeds to Piccadilly stoppers? Will it be 185's or can TPX get hold of 165/166/170's for the route? Will first class and buffet cart still be conveyed potentially opening up a first class journey from outposts such as Deighton and Ravensthorpe?
Also, will Batley become a TPX station or will it remain Northern even though no Northern services are scheduled to call there?
Also, will Batley become a TPX station or will it remain Northern even though no Northern services are scheduled to call there?
Philip Phlopp
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It'll be acceptable if they can keep the set reliable, it was plagued with TDM faults when it was with Virgin.
It needs to be reliable, capable of staying punctual and it also needs to be clean and comfortable. We're talking about image with a new franchise here - it needs to look good as well as do the job efficiently.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Once TPE get their new trains refurbished 185s will run the "semi-fast" North TPE services and all South TPE services, brand new bi-mode will run other TPE services and new electric trains will run WCML Scottish services.
Whether TPE get any other stock in the interim until they get their new trains is something we don't know for certain at this stage.
dk1
Veteran Member
Not been too problematic since they stopped using 82126 on the GEML. AGA DVTs are far more reliable & the errant 126 has long been dumped behind the refurb tent on Crown Points 24rd following several diastarous attempts In traffic.
Blindtraveler
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I should think that First would use their relationship with the works at Kilmarnock, forged through GWR to give any MK3 wrake and DVT a good seeing too if this were to happen.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Rumour is the delay in announcing full rolling stock plans is down to DfT.
First have apparently got a very good price for new bi-mode trains which DfT are embarrassed by given how IEP bi-mode is costing in comparison.
Also DfT were supposed to arrange for 4 x 2 car DMUs to go to TPE to replace the remaining 170s in the interim and they haven't done or found a suitable alternative yet.
First have apparently got a very good price for new bi-mode trains which DfT are embarrassed by given how IEP bi-mode is costing in comparison.
Also DfT were supposed to arrange for 4 x 2 car DMUs to go to TPE to replace the remaining 170s in the interim and they haven't done or found a suitable alternative yet.
That would not surprise me in the slightest if true. I'm sure the DFT would rather stick needles in their eyes than admit a deal they negotiated is way more expensive than one a private company has negotiated.
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