Numbers boarding buses vers keeping delays to a minimum

[infobleep]

Are some bus drivers more likely to try and cram as many people on a bus than other drivers, even though it will day the bus?

If a bus gets delayed due to sheer number of passengers, do bus companies in London get fined for late running? If they leave people behind, how does TfL monitor who isn't able to board a bus.

I've not been on the K3 bus from near Hinchley Wood station for some weeks but this morning I wished to board the late running 8.08 service. It went straight passed 10 minutes late without stopping. It had school children on it. It's usually 4 minutes late in average. I don't know whether it could have fitted more people on it but from being on the bus that followed it, it certainly felt like it could have done so.

I then walked to the next bus stop, which incidentally I could have boarded the previous bus at, most school chidren exiting at that stop. However having just switched phones, I didn't have a bus app installed yet so wasn't certain if I'd have time it takes to walk tp the next stop. I also didn't know how long it takes. I know do now, 5 minutes.

Cue 15 minute wait for next bus. This bus at least had space. It must have been late as well, as the buses run every 15 minutes.

It then kept stopped at every stop to pick up as many people as possible. The announcement about moving down was played and the driver said no one could stand in front of the grey line. On some buses people do stand in front of this.

At the point I got the bus, the one behind it was 10 minutes away. By the time I got to Kingston, it was almost behind us. We were definitely very late then.

This is what prompted me to wounder about numbers on buses vers delays. The traffic wasn't particular bad.just one set for road works but causing to much of a problem. The issue just seemed to be numbers trying to board the bus.

I've not contacted TfL because their feedback site isn't mobile friendly. My last three attempts last year ended in failure and nothing logged.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are some bus drivers more likely to try and cram as many people on a bus than other drivers, even though it will day the bus?

If a bus gets delayed due to sheer number of passengers, do bus companies in London get fined for late running? If they leave people behind, how does TfL monitor who isn't able to board a bus.

I've not been on the K3 bus from near Hinchley Wood station for some weeks but this morning I wished to board the late running 8.08 service. It went straight passed 10 minutes late without stopping. It had school children on it. It's usually 4 minutes late in average. I don't know whether it could have fitted more people on it but from being on the bus that followed it, it certainly felt like it could have done so.

I then walked to the next bus stop, which incidentally I could have boarded the previous bus at, most school chidren exiting at that stop. However having just switched phones, I didn't have a bus app installed yet so wasn't certain if I'd have time it takes to walk tp the next stop. I also didn't know how long it takes. I know do now, 5 minutes.

Cue 15 minute wait for next bus. This bus at least had space. It must have been late as well, as the buses run every 15 minutes.

It then kept stopped at every stop to pick up as many people as possible. The announcement about moving down was played and the driver said no one could stand in front of the grey line. On some buses people do stand in front of this.

At the point I got the bus, the one behind it was 10 minutes away. By the time I got to Kingston, it was almost behind us. We were definitely very late then.

This is what prompted me to wounder about numbers on buses vers delays. The traffic wasn't particular bad.just one set for road works but causing to much of a problem. The issue just seemed to be numbers trying to board the bus.

I've not contacted TfL because their feedback site isn't mobile friendly. My last three attempts last year ended in failure and nothing logged.

Not really sure what you're trying to say. If it's just 'Are some drivers likely to accept more passengers than other drivers' then I'd say it's highly likely. After all, we're all different, plus he/she can't possibly know exactly how many seats/standing there are at any one time. Timekeeping and/or whether a break is due may well also influence a driver.

 

[infobleep]

Not really sure what you're trying to say. If it's just 'Are some drivers likely to accept more passengers than other drivers' then I'd say it's highly likely. After all, we're all different, plus he/she can't possibly know exactly how many seats/standing there are at any one time. Timekeeping and/or whether a break is due may well also influence a driver.

That is precisely what I was asking.8 was also wondering what happens with regards to fines for late running?

Given the numbers travelling and traffic, not sure how buses can keep to time.

 

[Qwerty133]

Different drivers do let different passenger numbers on. With Arriva in Leicester some don't care and say they are full as soon as they have a single standing passenger (even if half the seats upstairs are empty) and some get out of their cab make sure every seat is taken and then get as many people.standing as will physically fit on.the bus.

 

[matt_world2004]

Are some bus drivers more likely to try and cram as many people on a bus than other drivers, even though it will day the bus?

If a bus gets delayed due to sheer number of passengers, do bus companies in London get fined for late running? If they leave people behind, how does TfL monitor who isn't able to board a bus.

I've not been on the K3 bus from near Hinchley Wood station for some weeks but this morning I wished to board the late running 8.08 service. It went straight passed 10 minutes late without stopping. It had school children on it. It's usually 4 minutes late in average. I don't know whether it could have fitted more people on it but from being on the bus that followed it, it certainly felt like it could have done so.

I then walked to the next bus stop, which incidentally I could have boarded the previous bus at, most school chidren exiting at that stop. However having just switched phones, I didn't have a bus app installed yet so wasn't certain if I'd have time it takes to walk tp the next stop. I also didn't know how long it takes. I know do now, 5 minutes.

Cue 15 minute wait for next bus. This bus at least had space. It must have been late as well, as the buses run every 15 minutes.

It then kept stopped at every stop to pick up as many people as possible. The announcement about moving down was played and the driver said no one could stand in front of the grey line. On some buses people do stand in front of this.

At the point I got the bus, the one behind it was 10 minutes away. By the time I got to Kingston, it was almost behind us. We were definitely very late then.

This is what prompted me to wounder about numbers on buses vers delays. The traffic wasn't particular bad.just one set for road works but causing to much of a problem. The issue just seemed to be numbers trying to board the bus.

I've not contacted TfL because their feedback site isn't mobile friendly. My last three attempts last year ended in failure and nothing logged.

Tfl send someone out to count how many people are left behind at a stop of they receive a complaint. Or other data suggests there are left behind. Leaving behind passengers with an empty bus is a serious discipline issue for drivers more than late running due to heavy loadings. I believe heavy loadings as a cause for delays is TFLs fault.their timetable should factor in increased loading time. (And the timetable is usually set via ibus data which would be pretty consistent for heavy loadings.)

Anti social behaviour and ticketing irregularities can cause significant delays which if you were boarding during a school run may be the case.

Also the drop off is pretty rapid for school route buses. It can literally go from loadings of 59 on a single deck to 10 in a matter of minutes.

 

[deltic]

That is precisely what I was asking.8 was also wondering what happens with regards to fines for late running?

Given the numbers travelling and traffic, not sure how buses can keep to time.

Operators are incentivised through their contracts to meet certain reliability standards - bonuses can be earned or penalties incurred if they are a certain number of percentage points above or below the contractual standard for the route.

So there is no penalty if one bus is late but if x% are more than y minutes late then there will be. If operators are unable to keep to timetables they need to amend them in agreement with TfL which happens from time to time.

 

[Busaholic]

Twas ever thus, imo. My schooldays involved a long bus journey in London and even in those far-off 1960s the traffic delays were legion, given my route followed the South Circular Road, which has only ever been a branding exercise on ordinary roads rather than something purpose-built. Different crews could present their own problems, though. One driver in particular, one of the tallest I've ever seen, never seemed to get out of second gear and was always running late. Another crew, with a driver nicknamed Elvis because he obviously styled himself on the King, and his young clippie would always try to catch up with the bus in front, even if it meant they were ten minutes early on a ten minute headway. They never overtook, though, the main purpose being to spare the clippie, who looked like a young Barbara Windsor, the chore of having to collect fares. Never once in seven years were we or they ever troubled with a ticket inspection, as in Eltham that was reserved for passengers to Well Hall Station, which our bus neatly avoided.You'll always get the conscientious driver and the one who doesn't give a monkeys, so whether you manage to get on a particular bus will always be something of a lottery.

 

[matt_world2004]

Operators are incentivised through their contracts to meet certain reliability standards - bonuses can be earned or penalties incurred if they are a certain number of percentage points above or below the contractual standard for the route.

So there is no penalty if one bus is late but if x% are more than y minutes late then there will be. If operators are unable to keep to timetables they need to amend them in agreement with TfL which happens from time to time.

They have to attribute delays and lost mileage to tdl many things the operator does not get blamed for.

 

[Busaholic]

So there is no penalty if one bus is late but if x% are more than y minutes late then there will be. If operators are unable to keep to timetables they need to amend them in agreement with TfL which happens from time to time.

This is increasingly happening, with running time increases both peaktime and inter-peak, often with headway decreases to avoid providing an extra bus (or even two or three on some routes): sometimes these are marked as temporary schedules, but, akin to Income Tax, 'temporary' measures can last an awfully long time.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks for the informative and interesting replies.

I do wonder sometimes if it's quicker to walk in peak rush hour than catch a bus. It may even have been for me this morning or if not, just marginally quicker by bus.

The walk is probably 45-60 minutes and the buses run every 15 minutesm