Bus rostering to railway rostering

[notadriver]

A friend in the bus industry who currently does bus rostering has applied for a similar job on the railway. How similar are the two roles?

 

[northwichcat]

I don't know the answer but I imagine the railway is a lot more complex to roster as for most services you need a driver and a guard who sign the route and the traction that will be used on the service, plus the traction needs to be cleared for the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think for buses it varies - at your typical small bus company, each driver will take one bus out (possibly the same one they do every day), go up and down one route give or take breaks which tend to result in a timetable gap (often the route they do every day) then go back, park up and go home. At a large operation it will be more like the railway, with efforts to match capacity with demand, keep branded buses on route, use the right buses where headroom is limited etc, and interworking routes for the most economic use of resources.

 

[talltim]

A lot of bus operators seem to like rotating their drivers around different services, presumably to keep up their version of route knowledge and to provide some variety for morale purposes.

 

[Antman]

A lot of bus operators seem to like rotating their drivers around different services, presumably to keep up their version of route knowledge and to provide some variety for morale purposes.

Although some bus operators prefer to keep drivers on the same route, builds up more of a relationship with passengers etc.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's a more complex thing than people suspect especially in larger companies. Whilst many businesses have tried to harmonise terms and conditions, it traditionally varied from depot to depot in some firms - in fact, some firms had different trade unions at different depots!! Then you have firms that have been sliced and diced so a firm like Arriva Midlands has an ancestry of Midland Red North, Midland Fox (was Midland Red East), Stevensons, Derby City Transport and even Crosville - there may be all manner of archaic terms and conditions associated with that.

Smaller firms with one depot and a few vehicles perhaps have the ability to have one driver, one bus and indeed, Wiltshire Council has often created tenders based on that with an hour break period built into timetables. It means small firms are not disadvantaged (or even given an advantage).

Other considerations come from the closure of depots. You may have services that are local in town A where the depot used to be, but are now operated from a depot in town B. Then you have the issue of depots now being located on the edge of town so crew ferries etc have to be factored in!

Then you have the difference between UK Domestic hours and EU driver hours and that's a whole other ball game.

 

[wellwhatitis]

It's a more complex thing than people suspect especially in larger companies. Whilst many businesses have tried to harmonise terms and conditions, it traditionally varied from depot to depot in some firms - in fact, some firms had different trade unions at different depots!! Then you have firms that have been sliced and diced so a firm like Arriva Midlands has an ancestry of Midland Red North, Midland Fox (was Midland Red East), Stevensons, Derby City Transport and even Crosville - there may be all manner of archaic terms and conditions associated with that.

It's even worse than that. I worked in Commercial and Rosters for Midland Red North and then Arriva and even the individual ex MRN depots had different t's and c's and rostering arrangements to each other. This is part of the reason that Arriva consistently screw this territory up, trying to manage a segmented and in many cases totally unrelated operating area with the same broom.

Additionally to all those you list, they now have staff from the former Midland operation in the West Midlands and the Centrebus Hinckley people too.

Bus rostering is far more complex and demanding than people give it credit for.

 

[Robertj21a]

Additionally to all those you list, they now have staff from the former Midland operation in the West Midlands and the Centrebus Hinckley people too.

Bus rostering is far more complex and demanding than people give it credit for.

Presumably there were also the Wardles staff until recently.

 

[wellwhatitis]

Presumably there were also the Wardles staff until recently.

Indeed there were, glad it's not my bag anymore!

 

[Qwerty133]

It's even worse than that. I worked in Commercial and Rosters for Midland Red North and then Arriva and even the individual ex MRN depots had different t's and c's and rostering arrangements to each other. This is part of the reason that Arriva consistently screw this territory up, trying to manage a segmented and in many cases totally unrelated operating area with the same broom.

Additionally to all those you list, they now have staff from the former Midland operation in the West Midlands and the Centrebus Hinckley people too.

Bus rostering is far more complex and demanding than people give it credit for.

At least the Hinckley drivers have their own depot, so surely Hinckley could just be rostered based on those terms and conditions.

 

[ECML180]

It's a more complex thing than people suspect especially in larger companies.

I work in a fairly large (c50-60 vehicles) company and it is extremely complex for all the reasons you mention, to expand on what you've said with some examples:

• Our highest paid driver TUPE'd across with a contract that runs monday to friday, his contract does not state he only works those days but he refuses to work weekends
• Our lowest paid drivers are foreign drivers who can only be rostered on the knackered old school buses and certain school work - limiting them to monday to friday
• Our second biggest school decided it didn't want school buses after signing the contract so it now gets some 70s coaches or 3 year old 53 seater tour coaches - taking them from the jobs they're needed for
• Some schools disagree with the timetable provided by the council for sports services and so expect the bus up 30 minutes before or after it is due, and complain accordingly when it isn't there - as far as we know the timetable is right so remembering where the problems are and working around it is impossible
• Tour drivers need supervising, a rest day on tour to them usually means clean for about 20 minutes so they can claim it as a working day and refuse work when back home
• Some drivers have allocated vehicles meaning they stick to them, leaving salaried drivers working 4 day weeks to match with their coach
• We aren't allowed to allocate spare buses or drivers, meaning if one drops management or schedulers are out in the field trying to sort it (and so no-one is doing their jobs!)
• Morale is very low - with the ability to walk out of one job and into another suddenly weeks of work need covering
• There are 2 really good cafe's near the depot...so we often lose drivers for a while

All of these I think are things that make bus scheduling harder than railway scheduling...no doubt there are opposite problems that make their job harder!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

At least the Hinckley drivers have their own depot, so surely Hinckley could just be rostered based on those terms and conditions.

Even then it might be so simple. If drivers have transferred from another depot and some arcane agreement means they retain TCEs or if drivers were on some old generous terms and have been "red circled" and newer drivers are on different TCEs?

It is NEVER as simple as people imagine I speak as someone who had staff on six different contracts in one site because of various TUPEs!

 

[Busaholic]

Bus rostering is far more complex and demanding than people give it credit for.

The Bus Schedules office of London Transport at 55 Broadway around 1970 had 150 people working in the one open-plan office and you could hear a pin drop! Made me as a 21 year old decide that a career in this particular field was not for me, though.

 

[Robertj21a]

Even then it might be so simple. If drivers have transferred from another depot and some arcane agreement means they retain TCEs or if drivers were on some old generous terms and have been "red circled" and newer drivers are on different TCEs?

It is NEVER as simple as people imagine I speak as someone who had staff on six different contracts in one site because of various TUPEs!

Indeed, Hinckley will have the 'old' Arriva drivers from some years ago, the subsequent Centrebus drivers, and the 'new', recently recruited Arriva staff. They also get some extra work from Tamworth shortly which may mean some of their staff have to be added in.

 

[Qwerty133]

Indeed, Hinckley will have the 'old' Arriva drivers from some years ago, the subsequent Centrebus drivers, and the 'new', recently recruited Arriva staff. They also get some extra work from Tamworth shortly which may mean some of their staff have to be added in.

And thinking about it more they may still have some ex Woods coaches drivers.