Told I needed an 'enthusiasts pass' to spot at High Wycombe

[Henry166209]

Hello

I'm a rail enthusiast

I been spotting now for over ten years now
I have been train spotting at High Wycombe
And apparently you need a rail enthusiast pass
Is this true ?

I'm always train spotting in high Wycombe station and Chiltern railways said that you need to get a railway enthusiast pass

 

[NSEFAN]

Is this to get access to the platforms? Were you told this by gateline staff? I've not heard of such a pass. If you don't have a valid ticket then technically Chiltern are within their rights to refuse access to the platforms.

 

[furlong]

If you don't have a valid ticket then technically Chiltern are within their rights to refuse access to the platforms.

And when you asked them to issue you with a "rail enthusiast pass" on the spot what happened? If they refused, what grounds did they provide for that decision, and if you don't think they were valid grounds for refusal, take up the matter with Chiltern customer services and/or the DfT.

As far as I know, many categories of people, including rail enthusiasts, who are not travelling are entitled to access gated platforms, but it's up to each station to decide how to implement this. You might just be waved through, or need to purchase a platform ticket (in some cases you're told to buy an equivalently cheap ticket to the nearest station as a de facto platform ticket), or be handed a timed paper ticket to show when you leave, or be asked to sign in at station reception and given a pass etc.

 

[221129]

And when you asked them to issue you with a "rail enthusiast pass" on the spot what happened? If they refused, what grounds did they provide for that decision, and if you don't think they were valid grounds for refusal, take up the matter with Chiltern customer services and/or the DfT.

As far as I know, many categories of people, including rail enthusiasts, who are not travelling are entitled to access gated platforms, but it's up to each station to decide how to implement this. You might just be waved through, or need to purchase a platform ticket (in some cases you're told to buy an equivalently cheap ticket to the nearest station as a de facto platform ticket), or be handed a timed paper ticket to show when you leave, or be asked to sign in at station reception and given a pass etc.

There is no 'Entitlement' at all... Railway stations are private property.

 

[furlong]

There is no 'Entitlement' at all... Railway stations are private property.

That's a non sequitur.

There is automatic permission granted to access the private property - but there are circumstances where that permission can be withdrawn. That's why knowing the grounds for refusal matters here. Many conditions are usually attached when permission is granted to gate off platforms, not least for safety reasons, and maintaining access for various groups of people is usually one set of those.
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For example, in the case of a Compulsory Ticket Area under the Penalty Fares regulations we have:

4.10 At stations with a CTA, operators must make arrangements for people who are not travelling to be allowed into the part of the station covered by the CTA, if they have a good reason. This includes people who are meeting passengers, seeing passengers off or helping them with luggage, people helping passengers with disabilities, and people such as railway enthusiasts. The arrangements might include making platform tickets available at the ticket office or from a machine. People who are helping passengers with disabilities should not be charged to enter a CTA.

 

[221129]

That's a non sequitur.

There is automatic permission granted to access the private property - but there are circumstances where that permission can be withdrawn. That's why knowing the grounds for refusal matters here. Many conditions are usually attached when permission is granted to gate off platforms, not least for safety reasons, and maintaining access for various groups of people is usually one set of those.

But they don't need to give a reason... If they ask you to leave and you don't it constitutes an offence.

 

[furlong]

But they don't need to give a reason...

If the reason is not valid, it could place them in breach of their franchise obligations etc.

 

[221129]

Railway byelaws disagree

Byelaw 13 ii
No person shall loiter on the railway if asked to leave by an authorised
person

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If the reason is not valid, it could place them in breach of their franchise obligations etc.

The phrase 'franchise obligations' has cropped up in this forum quite often over the past 18 months or so. Many of these references have refered to ticketing matters, rather than to the broader obligations of operating train services.

My question is not particularly directed at you.
Does anyone on here have any record of how many of these alleged breaches of 'franchise obligations' have been investigated in recent years, where the cause has been a ticketing matter?
- and in how many of these, the Company has been found to have been in default?
- and as a consequence of that finding, what sanction if any has been imposed on the Company?

 

[furlong]

Railway byelaws disagree

That's not incompatible - two wrongs don't make a right.
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Does anyone on here have any record of how many of these alleged breaches of 'franchise obligations' have been investigated in recent years, where the cause has been a ticketing matter?
- and in how many of these, the Company has been found to have been in default?
- and as a consequence of that finding, what sanction if any has been imposed on the Company?

Someone could try FOI, but I expect most instances are never reported by the interested parties through the correct channels (generally the ORR or DfT) because of buffer layers (like Transport Focus) that have the effect of taking the sting out of issues.

But here's one example where there was deemed to be a failure to use "reasonable endeavours" to open ticket offices at the times stipulated by the TSA:

East Midlands Trains breach notice

It couldn't be clearer:

Failure by the Franchisee to abide by the obligations of the TSA is a breach of the Franchise Agreement.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
That same TSA states:

10-1 THE OBLIGATION OF THE OPERATORS TO CARRY PASSENGERS
(1) Fares in respect of which the Operators are bound
An Operator is bound to carry on its trains each Purchaser of a Fare, in accordance with its terms, for the whole or any part of the journey for which the Fare entitles him to use those trains.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There's no get-out clause such as "this obligation does not apply where an Operator has chosen to institute terms that are sufficiently complex that even some of its own staff are unsure as to whether or not the entitlement exists".

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Can't say I have ever had any trouble getting onto the platforms up here in Hull - only time I have been stopped from going on any platform was Platform 7 when the Queen came to visit via the Royal Train. Everybody lined up on the bus station side of the railings - I went to Platform 6 and stood as she came in

 

[Condor7]

Did whoever told you, also say you needed a licence for your pet Hallibut?