Driver questions - anything you'd like to ask

[hairyhandedfool]

Okay children calm down.........

This is a forum, not a fight house.

.... not got my head stuck up my own arse....

I personally find this comment very offensive, I got it from my previous boss after I started driving and, frankly, it is unwarranted.

 

[ungreat]

Never been up for driving, not got my head stuck up my own arse.
Everyone in my gang always acknowledges a warning and immediatly moves to a position of safety. Anybody who doesn't can expect to find themselves out of my gang.
Despite this, some drivers insist on giving urgent warnings and lengthy warnings long after we have acknowledged and moved to a position of safety
The only thing my post smacks of is someone tired of the same old day dreamers and they're impressionable followers.
I'm surprised One Technical Numpty {i forget his latest name} had time to write that post as he's always so busy saving the railway
I've done OTMR downloads, i know how the 'system' works.
The same with disabling a unit "Opps i spilt my coffee all over the desk, looks like this one won't be going *sigh* i'll just have to settle for an early finish on this fine Friday afternoon"
Now, while i go off and do some real work, i'll let you get back to supervising a computer under the guise of driving a train.

Haven't got your head up your arse...hmmm,your reply says otherwise..

Day dreamers? Impressionable followers? What are you on about?

So platelayers do OTMR downloads on drivers do they? Since when? Unless of course you mean Tamper drivers...which suggests your tamper crews are having "OTMR dramas" as you put it.

If you have never been up for driving,then how would you know whether or not coffee spilt on a desk would do anything? Why waste coffee?

Supervising a computer? You obviously havent seen our units..they make digital watches look technical.

I have a lot of respect for track gangs..out in all weather,hard manual labour,long hours...but you,well...If you have had bad experience with train crews,then bad luck.No need to vent your spleen on here is there?

 

[AlexS]

Someone who is a platelayer now may not have been a platelayer in the past...

 

[TheSlash]

So platelayers do OTMR downloads on drivers do they?

Nope, but Traction and Rolling stock fitters do

 

[ungreat]

You still havent answered the questions though..why such a downer on drivers?

Fitters do,yes..but only train crew inspectors can judge what happens to said traincrew.

What I think you fail to understand is that ALL rail staff,regardless of what you or I or anyone feel about them,are vital to run the railways..your obvious downer is me and my colleagues..mines idiots who think they can run the railways from an office.

I hope you have a safe and happy career...and dont judge all drivers with the obvious bad pennies you have met..we aren't all like that y'know

 

[Muttley]

You`ll be on a 35hr week won`t you Slash ?
Thought all the boys went onto it a couple of years ago.

 

[TheSlash]

You`ll be on a 35hr week won`t you Slash ?
Thought all the boys went onto it a couple of years ago.

We're on a 35 hour week, but trying living on it

 

[Ben]

"Slash on the Warpath - an insight into the mind of a monkey"

Anyone else up for making a Channel Four-style documentary?

A Dispatches Investigation. 8)

 

[TheSlash]

...then getting taken into police custody after they find a confession from yourself written on a public railway forum

I've been given a green light by the Police, they really approve of what i'm doing. 8)

 

[driver9000]

So now that we have broken in the Train Driver fraternity

Why do you excessively blow your horn at trackside staff even after they have acknowledged?
Why do you report a near miss with a work group who were in a position of safety a minimum time of 10 seconds before you passed?
Is the excessive horn blowing all part of creating the OTMR drama?
What's the going rate for a near miss these days?
How many times have you disabled a unit to end your day early?
Working 34 hours a week, do you feel the temptation for a 2nd job, such as HGV or Coach driving?

1. I sound the horn until the whole group has acknowledged me, I give a quick parp when they do raise their hands to acknowledge them - define excessive, its a warning horn giving warning.....
2. There may have been a straggler or tools left out - if your gang is ace, well done keep 'em in shape, Ive not had a near miss with p/way yet but some of them do seem to be clueless to their environment and the basic of G1 & G2
3. No such thing as excessive horn use, its there for use as needed.
4. Report to signalbox, fill in report when booking off, come back next day
5. Never
6. No.

 

[Mintona]

driver9000, which depot are you based at? (PM me if you don't want to say publicly)

 

[Coxster]

I've been given a green light by the Police, they really approve of what i'm doing. 8)

I doubt 'The Gricer' does though

 

[mbonwick]

driver9000, which depot are you based at? (PM me if you don't want to say publicly)

I'd be interested to know that, I assume that you're relatively local to me, knowing about Stagecoach Lancaster.
Again, PM is fine for an answer

ta.

 

[Respite]

Slash,
I will admit there is a small percentage of drivers who think they are gods gift to the railways, but they are not real railwaymen/women so F*** em! I found the same kind of menatality in the signalling & infrastructure grades when I was doing that, it's just human nature. Hell I have enough hassle from guards who think they run the train I'm driving:grin:.

As for the questions,
1 & 2- Depends on my mood, I blow for tango's always, sometimes you get a response, sometimes you dont. Sometimes I will blow again until I get a response, sometimes I daydream how nice having a few months off would be. Then again I have already had a fair few near misses with P-way. Ask the NR Hereford gang about the 90mph cl175 at leominster 2 years ago, ask them why the lookout was working with the gang with backs towards the direction of traffic. Thankfully I always have my hand on the horn when approaching stations I am not stopping at, all the guard saw was 8 P-way guys flying through the air behind the train, he thought I had mowed them all down. I had 10 minutes at the box filling damn forms in & then worked the train to Cardiff & back to Manchester & then Crewe. So I guess your generalisation doesnt count here. Maybe your gang does everything by the book, I'm sure it does. But there's many a gang/ different company's P-way gang that doesnt. Makes us all wary about what they are going to do. Just check out Jarvis fastFu*kup & Corrillian staff for some real bodging. When I was a NR MOM I did PTS check's on lots of trackworkers. You would be amazed how many had no sentinal cards at all, if they did have it then many had just PTS but where doing COSS/PICOP or ES jobs with no qualifications to do that. SO why are we worried about Tango's, well I'm sure you can figure that one out.

3/ Excessive horn use.................It makes a nice noise!

4/ Current rate for near miss is the loss of a good job, mental trauma, loss of income, a slide into a life of drinking yourself into a stupor all the while after having your nerves torn just too far. There is no plus side to it? For a lot of drivers with previous human splats across the windscreen it has proved one too many for them & thats what has happened to them.

5/ Never, why would I. They can tell you know!

6/ 35hr week actually, same as most railway safety critical jobs. Not allowed to have another job without TOC's permision actually due to H18 & other safety issue's. But if I could I would love to be a Hitman, sometimes I find too many people that need scrubbing out! Damn safe working policy's.

BR was best.

 

[EE Type 3]

Anyway, 158s have nice horns don't they GhostCav

 

[support-uk-rail]

People keep saying 'what do people get from the sound of a horn'?

I think it's more the facination of contacting a driver....

I used to know a driver (no names) who smoked in his cab even after the ban, as did his fellow drivers. Nothing was made of it. I suppose it depends on who you work with - some will be casual and let it pass, some will report you.

 

[Respite]

Anyway, 158s have nice horns don't they GhostCav

I prefer a 47 but hey.:roll:

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!
I must admit that I like the sound of a proper, deep train horn whenever I hear one...Though I don't generally go out of my way to try and hear them being let off. I'm toying with the idea of possibly fitting a two-tone (Maybe off of an old 411 etc?) to my car though if I can ever get hold of one (And a suitable compressor) and that could have some interesting results if I ever sounded it on a motorway just before overtaking a car or bus full of other rail enthusiasts!

Anyhow...I have a few questions to drivers as well, if I may... 8)

1. Aside from travelling at high-speeds, for some unknown reason I also like being passed at high-speeds as well. Does anyone know of any stations where trains normally pass through on publicly accessible platform roads at the full 140mph?
2. Considering my previous point - And knowing how turbulance from a train can affect objects on an adjacent platform - One would obviously stay behind the line as the train approaches. Any problems at all with moving to about 2' from the edge after the front of the train has passed, though? hock:
3. Incidentally - For such high-speed "pass by's" - Is there any form of signal one can give to an oncoming driver that will definitely be understood as "I've seen and noted that ye are there, and ye can pass me safely" or something like that?
4. For some reason that I cannot quite explain, I have a habit of waving to drivers as they pass - Normally using a brief and genial "raised hand" (The sort of wave that ye'd give another driver in thanks if they let your car out into a queue) as opposed to blatant flag-waving or chain-pulling. However, could a wave of any variety possibly be mis-interpereted by a driver as an instruction or indication of something that he'd need to react to? :?
   (What I mean is: I normally wave at passing drivers to be friendly, but I wouldn't ever want such a wave to be misinterpereted, and possibly cause a driver to pull an e-stop or some other action that impedes service and possibly safety. hock: )
5. Though it's possibly not necessary, is there any way - Aside from refraining from daft activities, such as waving ones hand right into the path of an oncoming train - That we can be of assistance to drivers whilst either spotting, or waiting at a station?
6. Finally...I know that I'm by no means the only enthusiast who tends to communicate with drivers in passing...Any ideas as to why that is? I do have a theory of my own already, but it's only really valid in regards to people with Asperger Syndrome...And I doubt that it's just people with Aspergers who tend to do that kind of thing.

Farewell...And thanks in advance for any answers!
>> Death <<

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....(What I mean is: I normally wave at passing drivers to be friendly, but I wouldn't ever want such a wave to be misinterpereted, and possibly cause a driver to pull an e-stop or some other action that impedes service and possibly safety. hock: )....

You don't even need to wave to stop some drivers!

A case in point:

An HST passes St Albans station and the driver sees what he believes is a red flag, he applies the brakes and calls the signaller. The signaller says he knows of no reason why there would be a red flag, but will call the station. The station supervisor says he knows of no red flags, but will investigate. It transpires that a trainee was on the platform. He had not yet been given uniform and was wearing a red shirt!

Most hand signals that would cause a driver to react are deliberately not similar to normal gestures, that said, at 125mph you can see anything!

 

[Respite]

Death,
Just a casual wave at waist or slightly higher level would work whilst keeping the rest of you well behind that line would be normal. A hand raised outstretched head height would make you look like an off duty rail worker so ok as well I guess. To be honest as long as you are far enough away from the platform edge & not pretending to jump then I don't see an issue, but there's all kinda people in this world & my views are as it says, my own.
Oh & don't wear red as pointed out before (or green/yellow for that matter, especially wearing green & swaying from side to side, that would really shock an older driver with its meaning). But then again I'm taking you for more of a black wearer to be honest.

 

[TheSlash]

Death,

Nothing runs at 140mph currently, CTRL excepted.
Don't step out behind a high speed train, they create a vacuum behind them and the air turblence can take upto 30 seconds to settle.

 

[support-uk-rail]

Death,

Nothing runs at 140mph currently, CTRL excepted.
Don't step out behind a high speed train, they create a vacuum behind them and the air turblence can take upto 30 seconds to settle.

REALLY???????????????????????????????????????????????????
Blimey. That's not on the signs at official rail crossings. STOP LOOK LISTEN is the best they can do

Similar to jets then?

 

[TheSlash]

Try standing 4 feet away from a Freightliner doing 75mph with a long and fully loaded train

 

[adamp]

I don't see the point in the chain-pulling motion.
I've seen loads of kids doing this to railtours pulling into pick-up points.. just makes you look like a complete **** in my opinion.

Seconded. I cringe at what a complete T*T they make of themselves.

 

[O L Leigh]

Aside from travelling at high-speeds, for some unknown reason I also like being passed at high-speeds as well. Does anyone know of any stations where trains normally pass through on publicly accessible platform roads at the full 140mph?

Nowhere runs at 140mph. The CTRL services will, but I expect they will be stopping at every station along the route while the non-stopping Eurostars will be kept at a safe distance on the fast lines.

Considering my previous point - And knowing how turbulance from a train can affect objects on an adjacent platform - One would obviously stay behind the line as the train approaches. Any problems at all with moving to about 2' from the edge after the front of the train has passed, though? hock:

Carry a full written disclaimer in your pocket, just in case.

I personally wouldn't recommend getting that close to a non-stopping service. What if you lost your footing or slipped on something on the platform? I don't entirely believe that people can be sucked off platforms by non-stopping services, but I wouldn't take the risk myself. Trains do create a lot of turbulence.

Incidentally - For such high-speed "pass by's" - Is there any form of signal one can give to an oncoming driver that will definitely be understood as "I've seen and noted that ye are there, and ye can pass me safely" or something like that?

No.

Drivers will react differently. I personally hate having people over the yellow line and will whistle at any that haven't already moved back as I start my run through. There's nothing much I can do if they don't move back even after that, but it doesn't make me feel any happier. I'd rather you weren't standing in the "suicide spot" at all.

For some reason that I cannot quite explain, I have a habit of waving to drivers as they pass - Normally using a brief and genial "raised hand" (The sort of wave that ye'd give another driver in thanks if they let your car out into a queue) as opposed to blatant flag-waving or chain-pulling. However, could a wave of any variety possibly be mis-interpereted by a driver as an instruction or indication of something that he'd need to react to? :?


(What I mean is: I normally wave at passing drivers to be friendly, but I wouldn't ever want such a wave to be misinterpereted, and possibly cause a driver to pull an e-stop or some other action that impedes service and possibly safety. hock: )

Just keep it nice and casual then. We all know what to look out for in terms of handsignals, but a normal cheery wave should be fine.

Though it's possibly not necessary, is there any way - Aside from refraining from daft activities, such as waving ones hand right into the path of an oncoming train - That we can be of assistance to drivers whilst either spotting, or waiting at a station?

Realistically, no. If you've spotted a potential problem that we need to know about (e.g. trespassers), tell a member of staff giving as much information as possible and get them to report it to the signaller.

Finally...I know that I'm by no means the only enthusiast who tends to communicate with drivers in passing...Any ideas as to why that is? I do have a theory of my own already, but it's only really valid in regards to people with Asperger Syndrome...And I doubt that it's just people with Aspergers who tend to do that kind of thing.

None at all.

O L Leigh

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!
Sorry I took a while to get back to this...Keep getting diverted to other forums, websites I gotta build etc - I really need another three of me around here to do the work I keep setting for myself! hock:

Death,
Just a casual wave at waist or slightly higher level would work whilst keeping the rest of you well behind that line would be normal. A hand raised outstretched head height would make you look like an off duty rail worker so ok as well I guess.

Cheers for the info, GhostCav...I'll stick to using the normal "car drivers" wave then.

Oh & don't wear red as pointed out before (or green/yellow for that matter, especially wearing green & swaying from side to side, that would really shock an older driver with its meaning). But then again I'm taking you for more of a black wearer to be honest.

Aye, I generally wear Black as ye rightly guessed...Although - Being a man who feels at home within the deep forests of ancient Albion - I am also known to wear Elven/Heritage/Camoflage green a lot of the time as well.

May I ask what that Green/Yellow/Swaying signal would be interpereted as? Sounds like a rather odd-ball event or conditions being indicated if it requires a signal like that!

Try standing 4 feet away from a Freightliner doing 75mph with a long and fully loaded train

I've stood about 4-6' (Still behind the yellow line) from a 442 passing a platform at 90mph, and - Though I didn't feel in any danger doing so (Else Id've stepped back immediateley) I could feel a slight drop in pressure and a very slight "tugging" force closer to the train. I wonder what the turbulance would be like in the case of an APT passing a platform at it's optimum 450mph?

Nowhere runs at 140mph. The CTRL services will, but I expect they will be stopping at every station along the route while the non-stopping Eurostars will be kept at a safe distance on the fast lines.

Hang on a second...I always had the 91's down as capable of hauling a whole IC-225 along at a good 145mph or so, and I've also had 140mph down as the normal operating speed on the ECML...To say nothing of standard 140mph operation down the Trent Valley lines! hock:
Given that an IC-225 with two 91's on it (As opposed to the usual 91+NMDT combo) would happily manage 210mph in normal operation, if they're not running those things at their full BR-designed potential, is it any wonder it still takes us a whopping FIVE HOURS to reach Edinburgh from London? :roll:ad:

I personally wouldn't recommend getting that close to a non-stopping service. What if you lost your footing or slipped on something on the platform? I don't entirely believe that people can be sucked off platforms by non-stopping services, but I wouldn't take the risk myself. Trains do create a lot of turbulence.

Whilst writing my response to the above about the dangers of turbulance, I had the following thought enter my mind on the subject, given what I know about air pressure as it relates to aircraft...
I've just realised that the drop in pressure caused by a passing train plus the higher pressure from the surrounding area would cause air-flow to head into the train itself...And if the speed of the train was sufficient, then anyone entering the vacuum thus produced would actually be putting themselves at risk of being pulled into the passing train - Especially so if (Does a quick mental calculation) the train in question is travelling faster than 175mph! hock:
Are my thoughts on that correct, or have I made a technical førk-up somewhere?

Drivers will react differently. I personally hate having people over the yellow line and will whistle at any that haven't already moved back as I start my run through. There's nothing much I can do if they don't move back even after that, but it doesn't make me feel any happier. I'd rather you weren't standing in the "suicide spot" at all.

I had thought of that initially, as the only thing that would be suggested to a rapidly approaching driver if a person didn't move out of the way on approach would be that s/he might jump...Hence my suggestion of moving in after the front of the train had passed, so that I'd still be behind the line on approach, and the driver wouldn't think that I was going to try and buy myself a Cheap Single to Utgard!

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[Muttley]

Although we don`t have any of that new fangled Electrickery up here, i do believe that you`re only allowed one pantograph up on the train. So adding an extra 91 won`t add 3000 horses,only an extra 50ton.

 

[Broken Viking]

Hail All!

Although we don`t have any of that new fangled Electrickery up here, i do believe that you`re only allowed one pantograph up on the train...

That's most certainly the truth...When two pantographs are up (Say, one at each end of the train) the first pantograph causes a physical eddy (Wobble) to form in the catenery cable, meaning that the second and subsequent pantographs would have great difficulty in maintaining sufficient physical contact with the cable to collect the current required. hock:
It's for this reason - And (AFAIK) this reason alone - Why the APT had both of it's power cars arranged in the centre of the train so that they could share a common pantograph.

This problem has since been solved on the Pendolino and similar trains (Such as the DB ICE-III) through the simple installation of a 25Kv cable or busbar running down the length of the train which is fed from a single pantograph.

The same technique would work fine on a 91 as well...Although for a one-off experimental run, a temporary cable would need to be installed. If it was not possible to mount such a cable on the outside or underneath the train safely, it'd have to be run through the passenger compartment insted - Which (For perfectly obvious reasons) would restrict such an arrangement to non-public experimental runs only.

--- Old post above / New post below: ---

Incidentally, this talk of electrical technology and practices on the railway just reminded me of a false but amusing (And completely work/child safe) statement about electric trains that once appeared in Viz magazine, which I've reproduced below:

Many great advances have been made in railway technology over the years. Most trains now offer dinning facilities, hence the expression 'fast food', and British Rail's new Advanced Passenger Train is designed to tilt to one side, making it easier for old people to get on and off at stations. In the future, special long wires will enable electric trains to travel from London all the way to Edinburgh without the plug coming out.

Farewell...
>> Death <<

 

[driver9000]

on the ECML there was a test programme for 91s to run over 125mph under certain conditions. If the driver of an authorised train recieved a 'flashing green' signal aspect this was the authority to exceed 125mph and run up to 140mph, if he recieved a steady green aspect then the train had to be reduced to normal operating speeds. I think this method of work is no longer used. There is no 140mph on the WCML, EPS maximum speeds being 125mph (if a 390 exceeds 128mph the brakes are applied). The original plan for the WCML was to run at 140mph but the projects funds were cut back.

Regarding the one pan only rule, I often see double headed Freightliners running with AC locos with both pans up although I think they might be restricted to 80mph (any AC drivers confirm?) If I remember correctly there is a restriction on the ECML preventing two AC locos in multiple running with both pans up. Even 390s only use one pan at a time - anyone know why it has to be the leading one used? (Im a diesel driver)

 

[O L Leigh]

I can only assume that this "one pan only" thing only applies at speeds over 100mph otherwise EMU's wouldn't be able to run in multiple at up to this speed with more than one pan raised, and these trains certainly don't have the facilty for a 25kV bus.

I believe that the 140mph capability on the ECML was only ever tested but never used in service. While an IC225 set is cleared to operate at these speeds, the signal block lengths along the East Coast route are sufficient only for a maximum linespeed of 125mph, and even then it's not possible to go that fast along the entire route. To run any faster would require either an increase in the signal block lengths (reducing line capacity) or a fifth signal aspect of some sort to give the extra space between flat chat and a red.

Can't check your maths about the speed at which a person would be at risk of being dragged under a train, but I would guess that it would depend on a number of other variables. For example, Cl317 doing the ton would likely produce more turbulence than an HST at the same speed because it has a vertical front rather than a more aerodynamic wedge.

O L Leigh