442s within London Zone 1-6

[168lover]

Hi, I heard that 442s operate services that stop in london zone 1-6, which services are these as I would quite like to go on a 442 before they leave Govia.

 

[RichardKing]

Hi, I heard that 442s operate services that stop in london zone 1-6, which services are these as I would quite like to go on a 442 before they leave Govia.

Unfortunately, since the December timetable change on the Govia Thameslink network the amount of 442s stopping at stations within zones 1-6 has decreased significantly. The best chance you'll get to pick up a 442 within zones 1-6 is in fact peak-time services between East Croydon and London Bridge. Most, if not all, 442s that operate into London Victoria now run fast between Gatwick Airport (which is outside the zones) and Victoria.

I can provide you with timings of services operated by 442s between East Croydon and London Bridge if you'd like?

 

[168lover]

Unfortunately, since the December timetable change on the Govia Thameslink network the amount of 442s stopping at stations within zones 1-6 has decreased significantly. The best chance you'll get to pick up a 442 within zones 1-6 is in fact peak-time services between East Croydon and London Bridge. Most, if not all, 442s that operate into London Victoria now run fast between Gatwick Airport (which is outside the zones) and Victoria.

I can provide you with timings of services operated by 442s between East Croydon and London Bridge if you'd like?

yes please

 

[Kite159]

There is a couple Brighton - Victoria workings in the evening which are 442 operated Southern services which stop at East Croydon & Clapham Junction.

1928 Brighton to London Victoria
2028 Brighton to London Victoria

 

[RichardKing]

yes please

The peak-time services between East Croydon and London Bridge (and vice versa) are as follows:

Morning Peak:
The 08:28 service to London Bridge (arriving at 08:45) - this service should depart from platform 2 at East Croydon.
The 08:34 service to London Bridge (arriving at 08:50) - this service should also depart from platform 2 at East Croydon.

Evening Peak:
The 17:57 service from London Bridge to Brighton (arriving at East Croydon at 18:11) - this service should depart from platform 14 at London Bridge.
The 18:23 service from London Bridge to Eastbourne (arriving at East Croydon at 18:38) - this service should depart from platform 11 at London Bridge.
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There is a couple Brighton - Victoria workings in the evening which are 442 operated Southern services which stop at East Croydon & Clapham Junction.

1928 Brighton to London Victoria
2028 Brighton to London Victoria

Oh yes, I forgot about those services.
The 19:28 is indeed operated by 442s. However, I've just checked the 20:28 diagram and it is operated by three 4 car 377 units (12 coaches). The 19:58 is the other service is operated by 442s.

 

[168lover]

In the frequently requested diagrams thread it says that there is a 15:37 442 from Victoria that isn't a Gatwick Express service, would this stop at east or south Croydon?

 

[Kite159]

I was going on RTT which suggests the stock to form the 20:28 arrives at 20:19 (platform 5 as GX)

Although that is the 19:20 from Victoria to Brighton, which RTT has down as a Gatwick Express service, which I'm assuming is an error due to the calling pattern (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W67145/2016/01/05/advanced)

 

[RichardKing]

In the frequently requested diagrams thread it says that there is a 15:37 442 from Victoria that isn't a Gatwick Express service, would this stop at east or south Croydon?

The 15:37 service, under the new timetable, no longer exists. However, when it did exist, it called at East Croydon.

 

[tsr]

In the frequently requested diagrams thread it says that there is a 15:37 442 from Victoria that isn't a Gatwick Express service, would this stop at east or south Croydon?

For information, 442s do not call at South Croydon on any timetabled service. (Indeed, South Croydon cannot hold a 10-coach 442 formation on any platform.)

 

[cactustwirly]

In the frequently requested diagrams thread it says that there is a 15:37 442 from Victoria that isn't a Gatwick Express service, would this stop at east or south Croydon?

The only 15:37 from Victoria(Mon-Fri) is a Ramsgate service

 

[RichardKing]

I was going on RTT which suggests the stock to form the 20:28 arrives at 20:19 (platform 5 as GX)

Although that is the 19:20 from Victoria to Brighton, which RTT has down as a Gatwick Express service, which I'm assuming is an error due to the calling pattern (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W67145/2016/01/05/advanced)

That must be an error as the diagram for that service is two 4 car 377s. It attaches onto a further 4 coaches at Brighton (2F88 from Seaford) to form the 12 car 20:28 up to Victoria.

On that subject, I've noticed that the diagram for the Gatwick Express 07:00 (1D26) Victoria to Gatwick Airport service is a 4 car class 377. I'm not sure why a 377 is being used on a Gatwick Express service.
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The only 15:37 from Victoria(Mon-Fri) is a Ramsgate service

Prior to the December timetable change on GTR, there was a 15:37 service from Victoria to Brighton.

 

[tsr]

On that subject, I've noticed that the diagram for the Gatwick Express 07:00 (1D26) Victoria to Gatwick Airport service is a 4 car class 377. I'm not sure why a 377 is being used for just this Gatwick Express service.

It may be driven by (for example) a Selhurst driver whose diagram would otherwise include a stock positioning move. If a 377 needs moving and runs on the appropriate route then it may as well be useful for passengers and meet any contractual timetabling requirements.

 

[RichardKing]

It may be driven by (for example) a Selhurst driver whose diagram would otherwise include a stock positioning move. If a 377 needs moving and runs on the appropriate route then it may as well be useful for passengers and meet any contractual timetabling requirements.

I'd like to think one of the 377 units with the comfier seats (101-119) is used as much as possible for this service.

Would a 377 have the PIS software for a Gatwick Express service? If not, I'm assuming it would be the 'Please listen to station and on train announcements' announcement.

 

[yorkie]

The peak-time services between East Croydon and London Bridge (and vice versa) are as follows:...

If you can contact SprinterMan and keep him informed of any changes, so this can go in the Frequently Requested Diagrams Thread, that would be massively appreciated. Thanks!

I was going on RTT which suggests the stock to form the 20:28 arrives at 20:19 (platform 5 as GX)

Although that is the 19:20 from Victoria to Brighton, which RTT has down as a Gatwick Express service, which I'm assuming is an error due to the calling pattern (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W67145/2016/01/05/advanced)

It's not at all uncommon for a GTR operated service to be given the wrong route 'branding'. Several of these have been quite comical, such as 'Gatwick Express' running to East Grinstead.

I personally feel that the actual TOC should always appear in any field purporting to contain the TOC name, and any route branding should appear elsewhere. This ensures consistency. It causes confusion otherwise, especially when 'errors' occur and the wrong brand is shown.
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I'm not sure why a 377 is being used on a Gatwick Express service

Assuming it does, and is not an error, then I guess it will be whatever balances out for the return workings. Given how relatively few people would be on that train, compared to other trains, it makes sense if the stock is best utilised elsewhere at that time. I will see if I know someone who can answer...

 

[Julian G]

I'd like to hope one of the 377 units with the comfier seats (101-119) is used as much as possible for this service.

Would a 377 have the PIS software for a Gatwick Express service? If not, I'm assuming it would be the 'Please listen to station and on train announcements' announcement.

I went on the 0700 VIC-GTW service recently and it was a 4 car 377/4.
The PIS just says This train is the Southern Service to Gatwick Airport.

The 377 then works a stopping service back to Victoria joining a ex-Tonbridge unit at Redhill.

 

[RichardKing]

If you can contact SprinterMan and keep him informed of any changes, so this can go in the Frequently Requested Diagrams Thread, that would be massively appreciated. Thanks!

I'll compile all the changes I know of and send them to him ASAP.
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I went on the 0700 VIC-GTW service recently and it was a 4 car 377/4.
The PIS just says This train is the Southern Service to Gatwick Airport.

The 377 then works a stopping service back to Victoria joining a ex-Tonbridge unit at Redhill.

A 377/4? As much as I think all of the 377s are brilliant, I would expect Southern to provide a unit with more comfortable seating throughout on a Gatwick Express service! The seats in the MOSL and PTSOL cars on the 377/2 & 4 aren't the most welcoming!

I had a feeling the next diagrammed service for that 377 would be something like that.

 

[tsr]

Assuming it does, and is not an error, then I guess it will be whatever balances out for the return workings. Given how relatively few people would be on that train, compared to other trains, it makes sense if the stock is best utilised elsewhere at that time. I will see if I know someone who can answer...

I went on the 0700 VIC-GTW service recently and it was a 4 car 377/4.
The PIS just says This train is the Southern Service to Gatwick Airport.

The 377 then works a stopping service back to Victoria joining a ex-Tonbridge unit at Redhill.

A 377/4 would be ideal for the return working really, which may be the overriding priority. It also has better First Class provision, which is good if someone has actually bought a First Class ticket for that service. As for the PIS, there are PIS config codes for Gatwick Airport terminators, and if need be you can just remove surplus stops from the PIS by way of Mitrac setup.

There are, mainly during peak hours, a number of GX workings (in or out of service) worked by non-GX drivers. It's a bit of a nightmare to get your head around at times...!

Many 442s at that time will be working up from Gatwick or the South Coast - obviously there are various Northbound peak time extras formed of 10/442 around that time.

 

[43096]

The peak-time services between East Croydon and London Bridge (and vice versa) are as follows:

Morning Peak:
The 08:28 service to London Bridge (arriving at 08:45) - this service should depart from platform 2 at East Croydon.
The 08:34 service to London Bridge (arriving at 08:50) - this service should also depart from platform 2 at East Croydon.

Evening Peak:
The 17:57 service from London Bridge to Brighton (arriving at East Croydon at 18:11) - this service should depart from platform 14 at London Bridge.
The 18:23 service from London Bridge to Eastbourne (arriving at East Croydon at 18:38) - this service should depart from platform 11 at London Bridge.

There is a change to the workings for those London Bridge peak workings, and it is an improvement. Stock for the 1823 Eastbourne now comes in off 1B46 1658 Brighton to London Bridge, which does call at East Croydon.

The full diagrams for the London Bridge trains are, I think, as follows (passenger services in bold):

5A65 0655 Hove Yard – Brighton
1B08 0732 Brighton – London Bridge
5B13 0858 London Bridge – Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD
5B46 1611 Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD – Brighton
1B46 1658 Brighton – London Bridge
1F83 1823 London Bridge – Eastbourne
5F83 2016 Eastbourne – Eastbourne Sidings

5F82 0645 Eastbourne Sidings – Eastbourne
1F82 0712 Eastbourne – London Bridge
5F82 0900 London Bridge – Streatham Hill Shed
3F27 1655 Streatham Hill Shed – London Bridge
1B47 1757 London Bridge – Brighton
5B47 1922 Brighton – Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD

 

[Antman]

Hi, I heard that 442s operate services that stop in london zone 1-6, which services are these as I would quite like to go on a 442 before they leave Govia.

Probably a bit late now but they have been operating a shuttle between Victoria and East Croydon during the closure at Purley but the line reopens tomorrow

 

[RichardKing]

There is a change to the workings for those London Bridge peak workings, and it is an improvement. Stock for the 1823 Eastbourne now comes in off 1B46 1658 Brighton to London Bridge, which does call at East Croydon.

The full diagrams for the London Bridge trains are, I think, as follows (passenger services in bold):

5A65 0655 Hove Yard – Brighton
1B08 0732 Brighton – London Bridge
5B13 0858 London Bridge – Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD
5B46 1611 Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD – Brighton
1B46 1658 Brighton – London Bridge
1F83 1823 London Bridge – Eastbourne
5F83 2016 Eastbourne – Eastbourne Sidings

5F82 0645 Eastbourne Sidings – Eastbourne
1F82 0712 Eastbourne – London Bridge
5F82 0900 London Bridge – Streatham Hill Shed
3F27 1655 Streatham Hill Shed – London Bridge
1B47 1757 London Bridge – Brighton
5B47 1922 Brighton – Brighton Lovers Walk T&RSMD

Apologies guys - I forgot to include the ECS moves and 1B46. It's been quite a long weekend!
It's sad to think that we will only see the 442s on the above services, until 2018 when they will be removed altogether
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Probably a bit late now but they have been operating a shuttle between Victoria and East Croydon during the closure at Purley but the line reopens tomorrow

With the suspension of the Gatwick Express for the duration of the line closure, the 442s might as well be used as much as possible whilst they're not on their normal duties!

I've heard of some rather odd diagrams on the Southern network during the line closure.

 

[Starmill]

For all the difference it makes a white 387 could work a "Gatwick Express" service.

It's entirely irrelevant, particularly as the NRT lists all of these trains as TL (because they're operated by GTR).

 

[MCR247]

For all the difference it makes a white 387 could work a "Gatwick Express" service.

It's entirely irrelevant, particularly as the NRT lists all of these trains as TL (because they're operated by GTR).

Could it really? I'd say a 377 is much more likely

 

[Starmill]

Could it really? I'd say a 377 is much more likely

Well yeah of course, I made no comment on how likely it would be.

Subject to it being technically possible there's no reason why not. A 442 could work Southampton to Brighton and a 313 could work Victoria - Gatwick non-stop.

 

[yorkie]

Providing the units are cleared for the route, there's nothing to stop them diagramming them however they deem fit. Almost anything is possible but certain allocations are extremely unlikely. Things would have to get very desperate to diagram 75mph units on services timed for 100mph running, so the chance of this happening is minuscule.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Providing the units are cleared for the route, there's nothing to stop them diagramming them however they deem fit. Almost anything is possible but certain allocations are extremely unlikely. Things would have to get very desperate to diagram 75mph units on services timed for 100mph running, so the chance of this happening is minuscule.

455s and 456s have covered Gatwick Express and Brighton services in the past, although that's happened significantly less since the surfeit of Electrostars.

 

[MCR247]

Well yeah of course, I made no comment on how likely it would be.

Subject to it being technically possible there's no reason why not. A 442 could work Southampton to Brighton and a 313 could work Victoria - Gatwick non-stop.

I could also point out that a 450 could in theory run a southern service from Southampton to Brighton in a thread about stock on that line but it wouldn't add much to the discussion nor be particularly helpful