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Mobile Phones in the cab
- Thread starter ComUtoR
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RailUK Forums
RPM
Established Member
I'm not aware of any rules that disallow anyone from visiting the cab of a stationary train with the driver's consent.
I guess on your turf it might not happen a lot [station calls on a green]:razz: but wasn't the train just calling there?
I've never been on the Orient and thought it was a non stop service. Booked station stops on a green happen all the time I just thought the Orient was point to point.
But we digress.
This thread being about mobiles and their usage it was good to see the tablet that the freight guys are using. Some of our Drivers have raised concerns and our company issue ones are switched off. Is the freight tablet a bespoke device ? I assume it would have been passed for cab use ?
Tablets issued to drivers are for updating notices, emails, storage of links and diagrams, traction manuals, emergency procedures, rule books, sectional appendices, late notices etc. They are not issued to be used when the train is moving but as a storage device for important notices that should be read when booking on! The only time I would say a tablet should be used in a cab is for fault finding or accessing relevant information whilst the train is at a stand. Maybe someone on here who has been issued a tablet and is a driver could furnish us all with their company procedures for use of such a device?
Tablets that act as a 'Cab Advisory System' obviously need to be on and 'docked' in the cab which should render it use able for CAS purposes only - at least that's what I have seen. My company is still tweaking this system and it is yet to be rolled out. Most freights I see roll by use them. They are issued to be used when the train is moving just not used at leisure but for the purposes of a CAS and schedule card etc.
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I have my own opinions on tablets and Cab Advisory Systems but I'd wager it's safe to say that they're passed for cab use and specifically designed otherwise drivers wouldn't use it.
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Ours are little more than email devices with storage for documents. Explicitly to be switched off in the cab.
There is talk that they will become a device that has a cradle in the cab to dock and effectively become a mitrac/digital schedule.
I had heard that the some freight drivers already had a device that docked and is usable in the cab. I wondered if that was it.
There is talk that they will become a device that has a cradle in the cab to dock and effectively become a mitrac/digital schedule.
I had heard that the some freight drivers already had a device that docked and is usable in the cab. I wondered if that was it.
Company specific there. East coast trains have an iPad dock in the cab. The iPad has their diagram/calling pattern on it instead of using paper and it even beeps to alert them they are approaching a booked station.
They are currently in discussion over the use of iPads on GTR but the 700s are intended to use and iPad instead of paper diagrams.
Some freight companies do use tablets on the move for diagram info. Not sure which ones but I've had freight drivers road learning who have said they are permitted to use them on the move.
ryan125hst
Established Member
Elecman said:
Everything seems to have change massively in recent years, somethings for the better and some things not so much (and this applies to everything, not just trains). I'm only 21, yet even I have noticed how a lot of things seem to have changed for the worst, often due to health and safety reasons or whatever. I'm all for keeping people safe, but it gets worse. I guess growing up in this era means that everything is seen as a risk.
ComUtoR said:
I still found it useful to learn what is and what isn't permitted and what drivers opinions are of these rules.
ComUtoR said:
I think it was the combination of phones on the driver's desk and people being allowed into the cab that made me question what he was doing and whether or not he should be doing it. I'm a mere rail enthusiast so don't know what can or cannot be done which is why I posted on here. I wanted to find the facts.
ComUtoR said:
I agree, and this is the problem these days as things never seem to be put into context.
ComUtoR said:
I'm back now having been a bit shocked at how my post was taken badly. I never had the intention of reporting him or anything stupid like that. I was just curious to get the opinions of other drivers as it's the first time I've come across such a video.
455driver said:
It depends on whether common sense is applied by the managers. Obviously, if even a slight infringement such as this could lead to instant dismissal, then yes he would be. If managers generally take the view of ComUtoR then no as, as long as safety isn't compromised, there isn't an issue.
carriageline
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How ever innocent or perhaps naive the original post was mate, a lot of TOC/FOCs/Network Rail scour these forums. Even if not, all it takes it one zealous 'enthusiast' on this forum to report it, and the driver could be in doo doo.
Nothing wrong with asking the questions, but then linking to the very specific time it happened could lead people into hot water.
Hope you don't take it the wrong way or anything, it's not to stop people asking questions. Problem is, is rail staff very often see people tweeting or trying to 'grass up' staff, for mobile phones and the like, when it's intact the GSMR radio being used. People often go out of their way to drop staff in it, seen it before and will see it again. So staff can get a bit defensive, as often people are on the offensive against us!
Hope you understand, and it's nothing personal. I could see their was no malice in your post.
Cheers
Nothing wrong with asking the questions, but then linking to the very specific time it happened could lead people into hot water.
Hope you don't take it the wrong way or anything, it's not to stop people asking questions. Problem is, is rail staff very often see people tweeting or trying to 'grass up' staff, for mobile phones and the like, when it's intact the GSMR radio being used. People often go out of their way to drop staff in it, seen it before and will see it again. So staff can get a bit defensive, as often people are on the offensive against us!
Hope you understand, and it's nothing personal. I could see their was no malice in your post.
Cheers
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ryan125hst
Established Member
It's not a problem mate. I can see why staff get annoyed as I've heard of incidents where the public have reporting things on Twitter when nothing has been done wrong. I was just a bit surprised how everyone was seemingly accusing me of trying to get the driver into trouble when that wasn't the case.
If the link is causing an issue, would members prefer if I removed it?
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Yeah, I understand. Maybe I should have kept it generic and not posted the video. It would have probably led to a different response.
I certainly didn't see anyone making such an accusation, merely commenting on the video.
It's pubic domain anyway. There is no point in removing it and it adds to the discussion anyway.
Managers do not have the same attitudes that some of us here do. Contrary to popular belief the rules are not made to be broken. Whether we like it or not. I would expect a Manager to take the hard line. We have lost a Driver recently due to mobile phone usage.
The issue is slowly becoming a very grey area. Company policy are the most determining factor with mobile use and with each TOC/FOC having their own set of policies and procedures the "right and wrong" of it is not as black and white as some people perceive.
The reason why drivers do not allow access to cabs by anyone is because there are stupid idiots who post it on you tube thus causing no end of problems for the driver!!!!!
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Depends on what company you work for
ryan125hst
Established Member
It was the way that a few posts came across, even if that wasn't the intention.
I'll leave the link alone then.
I thought that managers would have that view as the rules are there for a reason, and with OTMR in every cab and cameras everywhere these days, drivers can't afford to deliberately break the rules as their manager is bound to find out sooner or later.
With mobile phones and tablets so widespread these days but also very useful, the rules definitely need to be reviewed. Using a tablet to store the driver's diagram and allow the driver to read from it on the move is a great idea. I would say it saves printing it off, but then I realised that a flat battery in the tablet would cause issues so maybe not.
As well as this, using phones or tablets to read about disruption information would be useful as it would give the driver a heads up on what is going on around the network. Obviously he shouldn't read while on the move however.
TDK said:
It's strange that he let them all in knowing they all had cameras and were all likely to do just that!
ExRes
Established Member
I just hope the driver checked that these kids weren't Islamic terrorists .........
Well it's probably going to cause less carnage if they blow up the loco with only a driver in than a carriage with 30-40 people in!
I'm not a fan of the terrorist on the cab scenario...it's not like a plane-they can't hijack the train and drive it anywhere-it'll go where the signaller routes it and if it passes a red signal it'll stop!
It's probably one of the most reviewed rules. Its been banned, allowed and now they are allowed in specific circumstances. One of the many problems is that they are causing accidents.
Using a tablet to store the driver's diagram and allow the driver to read from it on the move is a great idea. I would say it saves printing it off, but then I realised that a flat battery in the tablet would cause issues so maybe not.
They would charge whilst in the docking station/cradle
Which comes back around to the point made earlier about equipment like the Mitrac and Driver advisory systems. Also we have discussed the similarity between the GSMR handset and mobile phones
ryan125hst
Established Member
Changing the rules frequently is going to cause confusion which may lead to accidents in itself! Has there been any official report/review on this, or is one planned? It seems that it needs to be done and then a general rule can be used on all TOC's. It would make things a lot simpler!
In which case they could definitely replace the physical paperwork that drivers carry currently. Some passenger aircraft have electronic flight bags these days I believe, so if it's safe at 35,000 feet, it's surely fine on the rails! How are they getting power to these docking stations? How many trains have a power outlet in the cab? Or are they retrofitting them?
It's the similarities that make the rules even more daft and confusing. Some sort of standardisation is definitely required. Knowing the railways, it'll probably take a long time to implement though
Many reports and reviews. There currently is a general rule. The specifics are down to individual TOCs who should all by now have mobile phone policies.
Yes they are certainly paper friendly and a more effective form of internal communication. Sockets in the cab are unit specific and docking stations again are unit specific. Didn't someone mention earlier 700's are coming with them already fitted ?
It's the similarities that make the rules even more daft and confusing. Some sort of standardisation is definitely required. Knowing the railways, it'll probably take a long time to implement though
Nail, head.
ryan125hst
Established Member
In which case maybe there should be a rule that all TOC's should have the same policy. It shouldn't be the case, in my opinion, that one TOC allows mobiles to be used when the train is stationary while another requires you to leave the cab, one provides tablets while one won't allow them etc. The risk is either there or it isn't. The only time where they could really say the risk if different is, for example, DOO trains vs non DOO, or Intercity trains vs frequently stopping local trains. I feel the same way about other issues such as whether or not guards can dispatch from anywhere else other than the back cab, and whether they are required to check the train is fully platformed before the doors can be released. What has caused the differing rules in these cases?
I'm not sure about the 700's, but I'm sure the Heathrow Express Class 332's have a socket in the cab, although thinking about it, it might have been a European plug (but this won't be an issues for tablets).
Phone off at all times whilst I am sat in that seat. If I have to use it for any operational reason I leave the cab and stand. Purely, as sitting in that seat with phone in hand is just opening yourself up to be hung to dry! As any policy can be interpreted differently, and one of the biggest grey areas at the moment reference policy.
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